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Flat battery

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brightncheerful
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Flat battery

#453195

Postby brightncheerful » October 26th, 2021, 12:49 pm

Skoda Octavia estate plug-in hybrid (2021)

Sunday morning 0920 Mrs Bnc, puppy, and me all dressed up and somewhere to go, I am unable to unlock door of Octavia with the lossie key. The key fob flashes red but no response from the car. Removing the key from the fob involves pressing a slider on the fob and removing the key. Then push key into hole in door handle which is supposed to connect with the door lock, except it didn't.

Call Skoda Assist (AA). Abandon somewhere to go. AA man arrives about 30 minutes later. Whilst waiting, I speculate that perhaps the main battery (petrol engine) is flat. I read on-line about Skoda batteries and that driving short journeys not recommended for full battery charge but if such are the norm then one should drive for at least 30 minutes once a week to fully charge the battery. AA man also unable to unlock door with the key. He prises off the cover on the door handle to the lock and finds that the plastic cap on the inside of the cover is missing. I am told that when the key is pushed through the hole in the handle it pushes the plastic cap against the lock which unlock the door.

AA man clips jump-leads to the engine and his portable power source, tests battery and confirms that it is flat, at least not enough to power up the car's electronics. He tells me that in the old days one could ascertain the cause simply by checking the knobs and switches on the dashboard or side lights or whatever to see which one had not been switched off. But with modern electronics and computerising it could be anything. He also removes the bolts from the battery which is housed in the boot alongside the electric power battery. He finds that a piece of plastic on top of the battery cover is loose; he reckons that someone has had the same problem before and not replaced the battery covering properly, also broken the plastic cap inside the doorhandles. AA man tells me this is the first time he has had to resolve a problem with this particular Skoda model: his thoroughness I comment is to add to his experience, he agrees. He says he also has a Skoda but did not say which one.

Now that the problem is sorted, AA asks me to drive around the block to test everything ok, he says the computer will do a complete reset. I do, everything is, return. The wing mirrors wouldn't work whilst i was driving, but ok now. We discuss cause. I say that on Saturday I had switched on the ignition but not the engine whilst listening to music for about half and hour. AA man said i should ensure ignition is switched on completely with the green light on the cockpit 'Ready' . He suggests that either I now take the car for a drive for at least 30 minutes or leave the ignition on and allow the electric battery to recharge the 'petrol engine' battery.

I opt for the former. Drive approximately 15 miles each way to a Skoda dealership that I intend should service the car in due course. I have contacted this dealership a few times asking if I could arrange for someone to explain what I've actually got with this car and the numerous settings but whilst I'm told the request could be arranged somehow it had never happened. So on the off-chance I arrive unannounced. I explain to salesman i have no confidence in the Skoda dealership where I bought the car - lots of niggles, which took disproportionate time to resolve. Ask if he could spare a few minutes for explanation. Salesman happy to do so. He sat on the passenger seat. Took about an hour to go through everything and answer my questions.

He agreed with the AA man concerning the 'Ready' indicator. He also said that another possibility, which had happened to a colleague whose car was parked just yards away from the window of his colleague's office desk, is the proximity of the lossie to the car. Whenever the lossie is moved even ever so slightly it responds with its red light flashing: over time the battery could be drained. In my case, i estimated roughly the same distance as his colleague from where i keep the lossie in my office to my car. As it is only very recently that I have started putting lossie in my office I shall revert to keeping it where previously I kept it.

Afterwards, thinking about things, including my prior knowledge that sitting in the car with the ignition on (the engine not running) drains the battery, i realise that on Saturday I had probably sat in the car with the ignition on but not 'green light ready' for at least an hour and a half all told. And that my driving duration had for the 3 trips no more than 25 minutes at a time.

The AA man agreed we were lucky that the plug-in hybrid electric battery had about 50% charge otherwise it would have taken longer to have charged the petrol engine battery using the external power source to be certain enough charge to restart the engine after I switched off the ignition. I have resolved that in future I shall - as a back-up in the event of emergency - set the minimum electric battery charge reserve at 20%: the setting has to be done each time on starting the car.

AA man and i also talk abut the stop/start feature which has never worked since day one of my getting the car. AA man says there are some 30 things that have to be functioning as they should for the stop/start to also work; it only needs one of the things to not be for the stop/start not to either. As i used to find the stop/start function a nuisance on my Audi, it doesn't bother me that it's not currently working on the Octavia.

bungeejumper
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Re: Flat battery

#453209

Postby bungeejumper » October 26th, 2021, 1:12 pm

Batteries are bigger than that. Listening to music for half an hour won't seriously deplete your battery, and nor will having your car trying to communicate with your key fob. (Imagine how many hundreds of times a day your mobile phone tries to communicate with strangers if you leave bluetooth on?)

There are plenty of other reasons why cars can intermittently lose their battery charges while parked. Alarm systems are one of them. Another popular one with VW group is that the wiring loom to your driver's door cavity has been damaged, perhaps by a window mechanism that's trying to guillotine them. :? A third is that there's something up with a 12V power socket. But there are dozens more. Dozens and dozens.

In my VW's case, I just left my lights on in a public car park. :lol: But I'm with whoever said that somebody has had this problem before. If the dealer won't take it seriously, escalate it.

BJ

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Re: Flat battery

#453226

Postby Watis » October 26th, 2021, 1:54 pm

Hey, BnC, what's a 'lossie key'?

I can guess that it's what I would call a proximity key, for keyless entry.

Googling 'lossie' only returns results about a monster, and I doubt that's what you meant.

Watis

brightncheerful
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Re: Flat battery

#453227

Postby brightncheerful » October 26th, 2021, 1:56 pm

(Imagine how many hundreds of times a day your mobile phone tries to communicate with strangers if you leave bluetooth on?)


I rarely use bluetooth. I have iphone plugged into charge via usb except when using it. According to the iphone battery activity usage, the home&lock screen uses 20% and text 27% and my to do app another 20%. Over the course of a day of non-use that adds up to 60% usage. Another apply are tint percentages but probably add up.

brightncheerful
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Re: Flat battery

#453228

Postby brightncheerful » October 26th, 2021, 1:57 pm

Watis wrote:Hey, BnC, what's a 'lossie key'?

I can guess that it's what I would call a proximity key, for keyless entry.

Googling 'lossie' only returns results about a monster, and I doubt that's what you meant.

Watis


My mistake: should be lossy.

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Re: Flat battery

#453241

Postby dealtn » October 26th, 2021, 2:44 pm

brightncheerful wrote:
Watis wrote:Hey, BnC, what's a 'lossie key'?

I can guess that it's what I would call a proximity key, for keyless entry.

Googling 'lossie' only returns results about a monster, and I doubt that's what you meant.

Watis


My mistake: should be lossy.


Still no idea!

Watis
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Re: Flat battery

#453250

Postby Watis » October 26th, 2021, 3:09 pm

dealtn wrote:
brightncheerful wrote:
Watis wrote:Hey, BnC, what's a 'lossie key'?

I can guess that it's what I would call a proximity key, for keyless entry.

Googling 'lossie' only returns results about a monster, and I doubt that's what you meant.

Watis


My mistake: should be lossy.


Still no idea!


Thanks for the reply, dealtn; glad it's not just me!

Watis

bungeejumper
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Re: Flat battery

#453261

Postby bungeejumper » October 26th, 2021, 3:40 pm

brightncheerful wrote:I rarely use bluetooth. I have iphone plugged into charge via usb except when using it. According to the iphone battery activity usage, the home&lock screen uses 20% and text 27% and my to do app another 20%. Over the course of a day of non-use that adds up to 60% usage. Another apply are tint percentages but probably add up.

Sorry BnC, I only intended that as a side illustration. My real point was that a damn great two-kilo brick of lead-acid battery wouldn't be too laboured by the sort of communications task that a cubic inch of smartphone battery takes in its stride every day. And your battery, like your car, is practically new.

I don't have any experience of hybrids, but AIUI your main circuit battery on the Skoda is full-sized. Now that I've re-read our post, however, you've said that you had the ignition turned to third position (all dash lights on) for an hour and a half, and that would have put more of a current load on, because your whole system, including your coil, was primed to start for all of that period. (Question - do they still use coils? ) It's possible that the motors on your parking brakes were also energised, I suppose. But even that shouldn't have drained your battery so deeply that even the door locks refused to work. Well, I don't think so anyway. :|

Nope, there's something odd going on there, and the AA man's comments about somebody else having been there before you are probably not a coincidence. Did he do a computer diagnosis? (It should say so on the report they'll have given you, together with any findings.)

One final stupid question. How tight are your trousers? You wouldn't be the first person who'd sat on the key fob buttons all day, sending the car's response system into a permanent paranoid paroxysm of super-strained solenoid system stress. Just asking. ;)

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Re: Flat battery

#453266

Postby swill453 » October 26th, 2021, 4:01 pm

Watis wrote:
dealtn wrote:
brightncheerful wrote:
My mistake: should be lossy.


Still no idea!


Thanks for the reply, dealtn; glad it's not just me!

Maybe KESSY (Keyless Entry and Start SYstem).

Scott.

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Re: Flat battery

#453279

Postby kiloran » October 26th, 2021, 4:48 pm

swill453 wrote:
Watis wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Still no idea!


Thanks for the reply, dealtn; glad it's not just me!

Maybe KESSY (Keyless Entry and Start SYstem).

Scott.

So LOSSY is Locked Out Stop SYstem?

--kiloran

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Re: Flat battery

#453302

Postby Redmires » October 26th, 2021, 6:36 pm

I had issues last winter when I hadn't used my 3 year old Hyundai Ioniq hybrid (non-plugin) for a couple of weeks. When I got in and turned it on, it wouldn't start and flashed up warning messages about the brake system. A quick google suggested it was the 12v battery that was discharged. I had one of the 12v booster starters handy which worked ok. I used it that day and all seemed ok but the next week it was flat again. And the week after. I then removed the battery and charged it with my motorbike Optimate charger overnight, which has a recovery feature, and since then it's been fine. I still carry the booster starter in the boot though, just in case. I await to see what happens this winter.

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Re: Flat battery

#453322

Postby MonsterMork » October 26th, 2021, 7:11 pm

bungeejumper wrote:you've said that you had the ignition turned to third position (all dash lights on) for an hour and a half, and that would have put more of a current load on, because your whole system, including your coil, was primed to start for all of that period. (Question - do they still use coils? ) It's possible that the motors on your parking brakes were also energised, I suppose. But even that shouldn't have drained your battery so deeply that even the door locks refused to work. Well, I don't think so anyway. :|




Summat else to remember is that if the ignition key is turned so that the radio works so will the HVAC system (air con, blowers etc) - if your heating and air con system is set to even the lowest of blower settings (virtually inaudible over the noise of the radio) then that can give quite a battery drain over 90 minutes without you even realising.

MM

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Re: Flat battery

#453404

Postby zulus9 » October 26th, 2021, 10:29 pm

I have a Toyota self-charging hybrid. I and many other owners have similar 12v battery problems. As the 12v battery isn't used to turn the starter motor it is smaller than on standard ICE vehicles. I now trickle charge my 12v battery to keep it fully charged. It is recommended not to use the electrics for any length of time in Auxilllary mode (i.e. without the engine running) and to keep the car in Ready mode (i.e. with the engine running) for about an hour each week when in low mileage/useage.

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Re: Flat battery

#453415

Postby DrFfybes » October 26th, 2021, 11:15 pm

Redmires wrote:I had issues last winter when I hadn't used my 3 year old Hyundai Ioniq hybrid (non-plugin) for a couple of weeks. When I got in and turned it on, it wouldn't start and flashed up warning messages about the brake system. A quick google suggested it was the 12v battery that was discharged. I had one of the 12v booster starters handy which worked ok. I used it that day and all seemed ok but the next week it was flat again. And the week after. I then removed the battery and charged it with my motorbike Optimate charger overnight, which has a recovery feature, and since then it's been fine. I still carry the booster starter in the boot though, just in case. I await to see what happens this winter.


So your car has a 'normal car battery AND a hoofing great battery to drive the car along, and you still need to carry a third one "just in case"?

There's progress.

Paul

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Re: Flat battery

#453445

Postby 9873210 » October 27th, 2021, 1:04 am

zulus9 wrote:I have a Toyota self-charging hybrid. I and many other owners have similar 12v battery problems. As the 12v battery isn't used to turn the starter motor it is smaller than on standard ICE vehicles. I now trickle charge my 12v battery to keep it fully charged. It is recommended not to use the electrics for any length of time in Auxilllary mode (i.e. without the engine running) and to keep the car in Ready mode (i.e. with the engine running) for about an hour each week when in low mileage/useage.

"Ready" mode does not run the engine. It allows the control software to run the engine if required. There is little point in Auxiliary mode even existing, and less in using it. Auxiliary mode is a hangover from too closely emulating a non-hybrid, but as you suggest it's essentially a trap

Leaving the car parked in a driveway in ready mode before or after a short trip for an hour every week or two will keep the 12V battery charged, use very little petrol and is more convenient than using a trickle charge (And is not a theft risk since you can leave a Prius in ready mode with the doors locked and without the key remaining in the vehicle.)

When stationary running the engine will generate 10s of kW, while the DC/DC converter that charges the 12V battery from the high voltage bus draws at most 1kW (and much less when trickle charging the battery). An idle Prius in Ready mode with a low 12V battery will run the engine with a very low duty cycle, a few minutes an hour. Even if you run high power electric accessories, such as the heater when below freezing or the A/C when above 35C the engine will be mostly off.

brightncheerful
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Re: Flat battery

#453476

Postby brightncheerful » October 27th, 2021, 9:40 am

and the AA man's comments about somebody else having been there before you are probably not a coincidence. Did he do a computer diagnosis? (It should say so on the report they'll have given you, together with any findings.)


It wasn't an AA check but Skoda Assist call-out (SA uses the AA) so I wasn't given a report and so far haven't received one. I guess I could contact Skoda Assist to ask.

Regarding the main battery, that the AA man found the cover had been removed before makes me wonder now whether someone had replaced the original new battery with a used battery. The car is still under approved use car warranty: I am going to ask the dealership to check whether the battery is the original new, also replace the cover on the door handle which is apparently missing a plastic cap on the inside.

bungeejumper
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Re: Flat battery

#453509

Postby bungeejumper » October 27th, 2021, 11:22 am

brightncheerful wrote:
and the AA man's comments about somebody else having been there before you are probably not a coincidence. Did he do a computer diagnosis? (It should say so on the report they'll have given you, together with any findings.)

It wasn't an AA check but Skoda Assist call-out (SA uses the AA) so I wasn't given a report and so far haven't received one. I guess I could contact Skoda Assist to ask.

That's odd. My Toyota breakdown assist also uses the AA network, and the AA gave me a full technical report after my call-out earlier this year. Followed by a "how did we do?" by email.
Regarding the main battery, that the AA man found the cover had been removed before makes me wonder now whether someone had replaced the original new battery with a used battery.

I appreciate that not everybody is into self-mercanicking, but there's probably a manufacturing date code heat-stamped somewhere on the battery casing. https://www.ehow.co.uk/how_5883054_tell ... y-is_.html
The code starts with a letter and a number. A represents January, B represents February and so on. The date will be one number representing the year of manufacture. The year 2008 would be represented by an 8 for example. If your battery is stamped C7 it was manufactured in March of 2007.

(Or, as we'd now say, 2017. ;) ) HTH, anyway

BJ
Last edited by bungeejumper on October 27th, 2021, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

88V8
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Re: Flat battery

#453511

Postby 88V8 » October 27th, 2021, 11:24 am

Modern cars
Ye Gods.
Talk about overcomplicating a simple process.

Mind you, it doesn't take much to run a battery down.
The radio in our Pug 205 developed a habit of switching itself on when parked, which I only discovered when I was in the garage and the radio came on :shock: So the flat battery mystery was solved.
That was easily remedied by removing the radio. After all, cars don't need a radio to go, steer and stop, which is all a car needs to do.

V8

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Re: Flat battery

#453524

Postby swill453 » October 27th, 2021, 12:01 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
The code starts with a letter and a number. A represents January, B represents February and so on. The date will be one number representing the year of manufacture. The year 2008 would be represented by an 8 for example. If your battery is stamped C7 it was manufactured in March of 2007.

(Or, as we'd now say, 2017. ;) )

They obviously weren't familiar with the Y2K problem...

Scott.

bungeejumper
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Re: Flat battery

#453558

Postby bungeejumper » October 27th, 2021, 12:46 pm

swill453 wrote:
If your battery is stamped C7 it was manufactured in March of 2007.

They obviously weren't familiar with the Y2K problem...

Indeed. I'm sure it must have seemed like a good idea at the time to assume that no batteries could ever last for ten years or more. Whereas tyres have a foolproof two-digit year code. From a practical point of view, though, you'd presumably know a decennial battery by its delapidated looks? The stains, the peeling labels, the battle scars? :|

I have a couple of antique specimens in the garage. Will go and have a look at them now.

BJ


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