What nobody tells you when buying an EV

[88V8]

Link to Hagerty article... may be of interest... amongst other points... Have you heard about ‘time of use tariffs’? These are the Holy Grail of living with an electric car, because they offer a regular peak rate charge during the day, and a discounted rate overnight when demand is typically low (‘For how much longer with all these EVs?’ I hear you say…). In the case of my supplier, it’s 20.27 p/kWh at peak, and 4.67p/kWh off-peak.
I wish I’d known about the intricacies of this before taking the plunge, because my energy provider says I’m not eligible for its EV Tariff, either because I don’t have the latest generation smart meter at the property, or they won’t install one for me. Other suppliers say the same. So I’m stuck at peak prices.

Focused on the BMW i3 as an example, but of wider relevance.
https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/electric-cars/what-nobody-tells-you-when-you-buy-an-electric-car/?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=MED_UN_UK_EML_UN_UKNews_Weekend&hashed_email=e10ed097cf8572249f6e3b3cdc2c4f1223bb8ca07afac38b58570a4d1b211e0f

V8 (remaining V8)

[Arborbridge]

Link to Hagerty article... may be of interest... amongst other points... Have you heard about ‘time of use tariffs’? These are the Holy Grail of living with an electric car, because they offer a regular peak rate charge during the day, and a discounted rate overnight when demand is typically low (‘For how much longer with all these EVs?’ I hear you say…). In the case of my supplier, it’s 20.27 p/kWh at peak, and 4.67p/kWh off-peak.
I wish I’d known about the intricacies of this before taking the plunge, because my energy provider says I’m not eligible for its EV Tariff, either because I don’t have the latest generation smart meter at the property, or they won’t install one for me. Other suppliers say the same. So I’m stuck at peak prices.

Focused on the BMW i3 as an example, but of wider relevance.
https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/electric-cars/what-nobody-tells-you-when-you-buy-an-electric-car/?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=MED_UN_UK_EML_UN_UKNews_Weekend&hashed_email=e10ed097cf8572249f6e3b3cdc2c4f1223bb8ca07afac38b58570a4d1b211e0f

V8 (remaining V8)

I found something similar. Scottish Power say my smart meter does not communicate with them due to a weak signal, although they say it did once months ago! Therefore, I cannot receive a cheap power tariff.
This doesn't matter at the moment, but it will be frustrating if I do take the plunge to EV or PHEV.
I assume the communication happens via a normal mobile signal, and we are in a dead spot for BT or EE. Unless I find an energy supplier which uses O2, I am permanently "barred" from this benefit.

Arb.

[scrumpyjack]

You don't need a smartmeter to have an 'Economy 7' tariff (ie a night rate which is lower). I have had that for decades and have rejected having a smart meter. Current tariff is day rate 16p, night rate 9.5p so my BEV is always charged at the lower rate overnight by my Podpoint charger.

[AF62]

I assume the communication happens via a normal mobile signal, and we are in a dead spot for BT or EE. Unless I find an energy supplier which uses O2, I am permanently "barred" from this benefit.

Arb.

Depends if you are in the north or the south of the UK. In the south the system uses the O2 2G/3G network. In the north it uses Long Range Radio on 423 MHz operated by Arqiva (unless you are near Fylingdales where it uses 454).

So either way it shouldn’t be an issue.

[Mike4]

You don't need a smartmeter to have an 'Economy 7' tariff (ie a night rate which is lower). I have had that for decades and have rejected having a smart meter. Current tariff is day rate 16p, night rate 9.5p so my BEV is always charged at the lower rate overnight by my Podpoint charger.

The day:night price ratio for E7 tariffs used to be huge, about 5:1 about thirty years ago if my memory serves me correctly making storage radiators competitive with gas, if less convenient to live with. This had fallen to about 3:1 about a decade ago and has been gradually reducing until you post this info, a ratio of about 1.7:1. This is the worst I've ever seen. My own tariff here in the hovel has just been put up to 23.8p per unit daytime and 13.2p off peak, a ratio of 1.8:1, so not all that different.

May I enquire which provider you are with, as I've never been able to change to any tariff remotely competitive without agreeing to have a smart meter fitted. I appreciate the answer will be academic as they are bound not to be still offering your rate to new customers. Or if they are, the'll prolly be going bust sometime soon!

[Arborbridge]

You don't need a smartmeter to have an 'Economy 7' tariff (ie a night rate which is lower). I have had that for decades and have rejected having a smart meter. Current tariff is day rate 16p, night rate 9.5p so my BEV is always charged at the lower rate overnight by my Podpoint charger.

Well, I will push the point, but if Scottish Power are not fitting the old fashioned type of night meter, then my only choice is to switch suppliers.

BTW, when I asked then if they would change the meter because is wasn't working, they refused - on the grounds that it was working but just not sending signals!

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

I assume the communication happens via a normal mobile signal, and we are in a dead spot for BT or EE. Unless I find an energy supplier which uses O2, I am permanently "barred" from this benefit.

Arb.

Depends if you are in the north or the south of the UK. In the south the system uses the O2 2G/3G network. In the north it uses Long Range Radio on 423 MHz operated by Arqiva (unless you are near Fylingdales where it uses 454).

So either way it shouldn’t be an issue.

I heard the 423 MJz system is being phased out, so I doubt Scottish Power would fit an old style meter.

If they use O2, I'm not sure what to say, because that is the only mobile system which works here - that lead me to conclude they may be on another network. How do you know Scottish Power use O2?

[Arborbridge]

You don't need a smartmeter to have an 'Economy 7' tariff (ie a night rate which is lower). I have had that for decades and have rejected having a smart meter. Current tariff is day rate 16p, night rate 9.5p so my BEV is always charged at the lower rate overnight by my Podpoint charger.

The day:night price ratio for E7 tariffs used to be huge, about 5:1 about thirty years ago if my memory serves me correctly making storage radiators competitive with gas, if less convenient to live with. This had fallen to about 3:1 about a decade ago and has been gradually reducing until you post this info, a ratio of about 1.7:1. This is the worst I've ever seen. My own tariff here in the hovel has just been put up to 23.8p per unit daytime and 13.2p off peak, a ratio of 1.8:1, so not all that different.

May I enquire which provider you are with, as I've never been able to change to any tariff remotely competitive without agreeing to have a smart meter fitted. I appreciate the answer will be academic as they are bound not to be still offering your rate to new customers. Or if they are, the'll prolly be going bust sometime soon!

I am with Scottish Power. Originally was with Ovo (I think the meters may have worked then) then changed to the ill fated 'Tonik'. They went out of business over a year ago and their accounts taken over by SP.

It seems likely than night rates will eventually disappear. Almost every perk one can think of (particularly tax perks) disappear as soon as the bulk of the population starts claiming them. Simple economics.

[AF62]

I assume the communication happens via a normal mobile signal, and we are in a dead spot for BT or EE. Unless I find an energy supplier which uses O2, I am permanently "barred" from this benefit.

Arb.

Depends if you are in the north or the south of the UK. In the south the system uses the O2 2G/3G network. In the north it uses Long Range Radio on 423 MHz operated by Arqiva (unless you are near Fylingdales where it uses 454).

So either way it shouldn’t be an issue.

I heard the 423 MJz system is being phased out, so I doubt Scottish Power would fit an old style meter.

If they use O2, I'm not sure what to say, because that is the only mobile system which works here - that lead me to conclude they may be on another network. How do you know Scottish Power use O2?

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

[JohnB]

EDF do 20/4.5 for us, and we have a white meter that gives 9 hours 22:30 to 7.30. But they have lots of nuclear power. We vigoursly reject smart meters in case it becomes E7, and similarly can't change supplier even though we hate EDF. As a no gas house, things could be nasty in a July 22 when the tarrif expires. At least a EDF won't go bust beforehand.

Bring back Southern Electric

[Arborbridge]

Depends if you are in the north or the south of the UK. In the south the system uses the O2 2G/3G network. In the north it uses Long Range Radio on 423 MHz operated by Arqiva (unless you are near Fylingdales where it uses 454).

So either way it shouldn’t be an issue.

I heard the 423 MJz system is being phased out, so I doubt Scottish Power would fit an old style meter.

If they use O2, I'm not sure what to say, because that is the only mobile system which works here - that lead me to conclude they may be on another network. How do you know Scottish Power use O2?

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

Thanks for the link - could be useful when I talk with Scottish Power again.

Does one have any right to insist that they come and check a meter? I suspect there could be an interminably long process involved to put people off.

[scrumpyjack]

You don't need a smartmeter to have an 'Economy 7' tariff (ie a night rate which is lower). I have had that for decades and have rejected having a smart meter. Current tariff is day rate 16p, night rate 9.5p so my BEV is always charged at the lower rate overnight by my Podpoint charger.

The day:night price ratio for E7 tariffs used to be huge, about 5:1 about thirty years ago if my memory serves me correctly making storage radiators competitive with gas, if less convenient to live with. This had fallen to about 3:1 about a decade ago and has been gradually reducing until you post this info, a ratio of about 1.7:1. This is the worst I've ever seen. My own tariff here in the hovel has just been put up to 23.8p per unit daytime and 13.2p off peak, a ratio of 1.8:1, so not all that different.

May I enquire which provider you are with, as I've never been able to change to any tariff remotely competitive without agreeing to have a smart meter fitted. I appreciate the answer will be academic as they are bound not to be still offering your rate to new customers. Or if they are, the'll prolly be going bust sometime soon!

I'm with SO Energy and unfortunately my tariff ends at the end of December. They have offered ludicrous fixed rates after that (36p!) so I will just leave it to the variable capped tariff. I gather you can't get anything lower than the cap from anyone and some suppliers are refusing to take on new customers on the capped tariff. None of the suppliers I have been with over the last few years have made it a condition that one has a smart meter. They have all pushed them but I have refused.

One just hopes that the spike in gas prices will have collapsed by the spring and rates will come down again.