Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators
Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site
electric car made easy
-
- Lemon Quarter
- Posts: 3734
- Joined: November 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm
- Has thanked: 1171 times
- Been thanked: 1964 times
Re: electric car made easy
Intersting idea - not sure how they don't increase unsprung weight - a lot of assumptions on your OE spec wheels being made, or interact with drum brakes
Or interacts with existing stability control systems.
Or wheels under 250mm wide.
And as for NASA technology in their cast iron ring brakes, Buell were using those on road bikes 20 years ago, but for some reason they never gained popularity. As for making them better than carbon cramics - might be the case when the brakes are cold and un low speed environments.
Some good ideas on there, bot sure I'd buy shares in them though. Now if they'd marketed it towards retrofitting classics with an easily reversible conversion, that might appeal to a lot of people.
Paul
Or interacts with existing stability control systems.
Or wheels under 250mm wide.
And as for NASA technology in their cast iron ring brakes, Buell were using those on road bikes 20 years ago, but for some reason they never gained popularity. As for making them better than carbon cramics - might be the case when the brakes are cold and un low speed environments.
Some good ideas on there, bot sure I'd buy shares in them though. Now if they'd marketed it towards retrofitting classics with an easily reversible conversion, that might appeal to a lot of people.
Paul
-
- Lemon Half
- Posts: 8066
- Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
- Has thanked: 2846 times
- Been thanked: 3939 times
Re: electric car made easy
Sorry, just read Paul's post, but I have similar reservations.
Seems like a good idea, really, but I suspect the devil's in the details. It's not just that you've got to install a lot of circuitry (and quite a lot of dashboard stuff) to turn an ICE car into a hybrid or an all-electric. It's also that putting extra batteries into the vehicle will impact on its handling characteristics. Suspension, braking, steering? (Different torque characteristics, different demands?) The real fun would start if you dumped the engine altogether and switched to all-electric - practically no part of your springs and brakes would still be adequate. Not least, because your weight distribution would be all over the place. Probably even if the heavy batteries replaced the heavy engine. (Mounted higher, lower?)
If I'm not mistaken, there's a clear suggestion in the blurb that you can turn a front wheel drive car into a RWD by putting the leccy wheels on the other axle. Or make it a 4x4 by simply putting them on each corner. I'd like to hear what VOSA would think of that idea.
It kind of makes me realise why it costs £150K to turn a classic Merc or Jaguar into an ell-electric. Still, if this invention makes it easier I'd be all for it.
BJ
Seems like a good idea, really, but I suspect the devil's in the details. It's not just that you've got to install a lot of circuitry (and quite a lot of dashboard stuff) to turn an ICE car into a hybrid or an all-electric. It's also that putting extra batteries into the vehicle will impact on its handling characteristics. Suspension, braking, steering? (Different torque characteristics, different demands?) The real fun would start if you dumped the engine altogether and switched to all-electric - practically no part of your springs and brakes would still be adequate. Not least, because your weight distribution would be all over the place. Probably even if the heavy batteries replaced the heavy engine. (Mounted higher, lower?)
If I'm not mistaken, there's a clear suggestion in the blurb that you can turn a front wheel drive car into a RWD by putting the leccy wheels on the other axle. Or make it a 4x4 by simply putting them on each corner. I'd like to hear what VOSA would think of that idea.
The bolt-on design is such that you can take any existing two-wheel drive fuel engine vehicle and turn it into a four-wheel hybrid. You can also replace the engine altogether with an off-the-shelf the battery pack combined with two or four ORBIS hub motor wheels. A combination of two active and two passive ORBIS wheels can also be used with the benefit of lighter wheels and the advanced ORBIS Brake system for all wheels.
It kind of makes me realise why it costs £150K to turn a classic Merc or Jaguar into an ell-electric. Still, if this invention makes it easier I'd be all for it.
BJ
-
- Lemon Quarter
- Posts: 1589
- Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:54 pm
- Has thanked: 33 times
- Been thanked: 477 times
Re: electric car made easy
I love the way the wheel rims light up red......I'd go for them just for that......looks great.
-
- Lemon Half
- Posts: 7088
- Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
- Has thanked: 1638 times
- Been thanked: 3796 times
Re: electric car made easy
Snorvey wrote:I came across these earlier. Wheel hub mounted electric motors. A bit like replacement wheels to convert your pushbike to electric.
Apparently you can replace 2 or 4 wheels and go hybrid or full electric.
https://orbiswheel.com/orbis-wheels/
Flippin' annoying website with all that text flying about every time one scrolls!
Great idea though. Wheels that light up - what's not to like?
-
- Lemon Slice
- Posts: 986
- Joined: December 9th, 2016, 6:44 am
- Has thanked: 226 times
- Been thanked: 297 times
Re: electric car made easy
How the heck do you control this? If it's on the website I couldn't find it.
Designing the controls for a hybrid is a major effort. Transitioning smoothly between motor and engine, and generator and friction brake are hard. Even worse when you have to take failures into account and still stop the car. I find it hard to imagine that a retrofit by a hobbyist or independent mechanic doing a few conversions would be anywhere near satisfying the MoT for a type certificate.
What I can imagine some people doing is having separate set of controls for the electrics. This would probably not be roadworthy but would also put on the driver second to second operational decisions to get any benefit from the system. Decisions that would require feedback the system probably does not give and knowledge the driver does not have. It makes driving an18-speed manual without synchromesh and no brakes look like child's play.
Designing the controls for a hybrid is a major effort. Transitioning smoothly between motor and engine, and generator and friction brake are hard. Even worse when you have to take failures into account and still stop the car. I find it hard to imagine that a retrofit by a hobbyist or independent mechanic doing a few conversions would be anywhere near satisfying the MoT for a type certificate.
What I can imagine some people doing is having separate set of controls for the electrics. This would probably not be roadworthy but would also put on the driver second to second operational decisions to get any benefit from the system. Decisions that would require feedback the system probably does not give and knowledge the driver does not have. It makes driving an18-speed manual without synchromesh and no brakes look like child's play.
-
- Lemon Quarter
- Posts: 2059
- Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:40 am
- Has thanked: 1032 times
- Been thanked: 824 times
Re: electric car made easy
There’s a French company doing conversions for fiat 500s: Transition-one. https://youtu.be/98mlJ1N50DU
-
- Lemon Half
- Posts: 5770
- Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:22 am
- Has thanked: 4101 times
- Been thanked: 2560 times
Re: electric car made easy
Orbis do 16" wheels.
My Landy has 16" wheels.
Hmmm.
And here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-QEVsLQIxc at 3min20 is a Series 2 Landy with their wheels.
Which we scarcely see.
Unfortunately, the whole video is a lot of flannel. Perhaps they don't have adequate patents yet?
Their wheels made it into a Honda four years ago... https://honda-tech.com/articles/civic-type-r-bolt-on-all-wheel-drive-discussed/ since then seems to have sunk without trace.
So this has been around four years or more but yet to make a serious impact or indeed any impact.
It's hard work reinventing the wheel.
V8
My Landy has 16" wheels.
Hmmm.
And here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-QEVsLQIxc at 3min20 is a Series 2 Landy with their wheels.
Which we scarcely see.
Unfortunately, the whole video is a lot of flannel. Perhaps they don't have adequate patents yet?
Their wheels made it into a Honda four years ago... https://honda-tech.com/articles/civic-type-r-bolt-on-all-wheel-drive-discussed/ since then seems to have sunk without trace.
So this has been around four years or more but yet to make a serious impact or indeed any impact.
It's hard work reinventing the wheel.
V8
-
- Lemon Half
- Posts: 6050
- Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
- Has thanked: 1843 times
- Been thanked: 2066 times
Re: electric car made easy
richlist wrote:Shame they don't do 18 inch wheels......I wonder why.
Yep I have those on mine
has anyone seen the cost
If it's not on the sit it means one thing
4 of them, will buy you a top of the range car
-
- Lemon Half
- Posts: 8066
- Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
- Has thanked: 2846 times
- Been thanked: 3939 times
Re: electric car made easy
pje16 wrote:has anyone seen the cost
If it's not on the sit it means one thing
4 of them, will buy you a top of the range car
The 2019 discussion about the Honda Orbis wheels mentioned a cost of $13,000 for the actual wheels, plus batteries, fitting and control stuff. That doesn't sound like much change out of $30K for the whole set-up (or £30K after UK taxes). And, as one commenter added, you wouldn't want to go into any rocks or potholes at those prices. Which I suppose might take some of the fun out of offroading in your all-electric 4x4?
More about the system at http://www.royalacademyun.org/projects/ ... is-driven/ (An organisation I've never heard of before, and somewhat mistrust!)
BJ
-
- Lemon Half
- Posts: 6050
- Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
- Has thanked: 1843 times
- Been thanked: 2066 times
Re: electric car made easy
Thanks BJ
so not mush use on the UK spothole riddled tarmac then
I wasn't too far wrong with my guess then
so not mush use on the UK spothole riddled tarmac then
I wasn't too far wrong with my guess then
-
- Lemon Slice
- Posts: 986
- Joined: December 9th, 2016, 6:44 am
- Has thanked: 226 times
- Been thanked: 297 times
Re: electric car made easy
richlist wrote:Surprised they haven't made it onto the race circuits yet.
Innovation in racing is about the rules, not technical merit as functional vehicles.
In any class we know how to make much faster vehicles but most of the improvements would be illegal and would be caught. Innovation centers on things that have not been banned and or things that have been banned but are hard to detect.
Putting motors in wheels is almost always illegal because there are tight controls on sources of motive power. It would be easy to catch because of the large wires to the wheels. This only make its way to racing if there is the controlling body decides that this should be allowed or required. Their decision has little to do with technical merit.
-
- Lemon Quarter
- Posts: 1589
- Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:54 pm
- Has thanked: 33 times
- Been thanked: 477 times
Re: electric car made easy
Then the controlling body should decide that having wheels that light up......all different colours......would be great for a night race. Sometimes it's good to think out of the box, after all, motor racing is a spectator sport.
-
- Lemon Slice
- Posts: 475
- Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:56 pm
- Has thanked: 1304 times
- Been thanked: 107 times
Re: electric car made easy
If anyone is interested in conversion of cars with internal combustion engines to electric, there's a programme 'Vintage Voltage' about a conversion firm in Wales who specialise in exactly that. It's on Quest at the moment, or Discovery.
They don't use wheel mounted motors, but the ones they do use are small - about the size of a breadbin. The difficulty they face - as would anyone attempting a wheel-motor conversion - is where to put the batteries. These are monumental in in size and weight, even for relatively modest range.
It's an interesting programme, but viewer discretion advised: scenes of classic cars being butchered with angle grinders.
They don't use wheel mounted motors, but the ones they do use are small - about the size of a breadbin. The difficulty they face - as would anyone attempting a wheel-motor conversion - is where to put the batteries. These are monumental in in size and weight, even for relatively modest range.
It's an interesting programme, but viewer discretion advised: scenes of classic cars being butchered with angle grinders.
-
- Lemon Quarter
- Posts: 3734
- Joined: November 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm
- Has thanked: 1171 times
- Been thanked: 1964 times
Re: electric car made easy
Snorvey wrote:See here for someone who put a Tesla in an ancient VW bus thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKNVgdRtzKs
I want to convert an old electric milk float with Tesla gear.
MrsF won't let me,
-
- Lemon Slice
- Posts: 986
- Joined: December 9th, 2016, 6:44 am
- Has thanked: 226 times
- Been thanked: 297 times
Re: electric car made easy
Snorvey wrote:Its an interesting program right enough - with most of these old cars it's a very expensive build though - in part because the Tesla motors they install chuck out many times more power than the decrepit old motor and all of the chassis running gear needs expensive upgrades.
See here for someone who put a Tesla in an ancient VW bus thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKNVgdRtzKs
Just because you have 450Hp doesn't mean you have to use it. If you want a Porsche beater you need to upgrade the drive shaft, but if you want a parade piece with performance in the range of the original you can leave much of it stock and limit performance in the motor controller.
Commercial motor controllers let you set all sorts of limits such as torque and power curves, speed limits, rate of change limits on speed, torque or power and usually hundreds of other parameters you won't understand until you ask the sales engineer who asked for it and what did they break.
In industrial applications I've installed quite a few rather oversized motors* that could break things if they were not restricted in software.
* Sometimes because it's easier to use the same motor everywhere, sometimes because we needed performance in some part of the envelope, such as some power at a very high rpm without a gear box.
Return to “Cars, Driving, Motorbikes or any Transport”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests