Speed limit to be lowered to 20mph in Wales

[airbus330]

Why not limit it to 5mph.

And by law you must pick up anyone who's walking in the same direction as you're driving, if there's a spare seat in your vehicle.

And once they are in your vehicle, their destination becomes a priority before yours.

Don't laugh - this is Mark Drakeford we're talking about...

You heard it here first...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I had to laugh at this, since it is the law in Cuba that you must pick up anyone along your route requiring a lift. Hence crowds of folk on street corners in rural towns waiting for the next passing vehicle. Tourist busses and taxis are exempt. Drakeford must be getting his road policies from some crackpot and communist Cuba fits the bill!

[airbus330]

37000 signatures and rising.......https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-welsh ... es-by-2023

[Itsallaguess]

‎


Source - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/matt-cartoons-september-2023/

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[bruncher]

Yes, injuries in a collision at 20 MPH are less severe than injuries from faster moving vehicles. The counter-factual is never considered, however, like parents losing time with kids or being late for work. If you're a surgeon late for work, there could be lifr-threatening consequences. The effects of tiredness if people have to get up earlier etc etc

It's essentally a liability exercise. If someone dies in your area in a 30 MPH zone, then yoi'll be sued for not reducing the speed limit.

[88V8]

And yet our narrow winding lane has a default 60mph limit, being apparently 'unsuitable' for the 20mph that afflicts some nearby villages

V8

[Nimrod103]

It will be interesting to see how this Welsh experiment pans out.
Speaking personally, I have just crossed Wales off my holiday destination list. It will take too long to get to the places I want to go, combined with the heightened risk of being fined, just made the thought unappealing. This is going to be a major economic hit to the tourist industry.

[servodude]

It will be interesting to see how this Welsh experiment pans out.
Speaking personally, I have just crossed Wales off my holiday destination list. It will take too long to get to the places I want to go, combined with the heightened risk of being fined, just made the thought unappealing. This is going to be a major economic hit to the tourist industry.

Can you explain which journeys you were considering, and how this change would actually affect the real practical journey time? And how this would ruin your holiday?
Cos to be honest... it just sounds like you've reached through your sphincter for a whinge - which to be fair might be the kind of thing they want to avoid infecting Wales

[Itsallaguess]

This is going to be a major economic hit to the tourist industry.

Potential visitors to Wales have been getting the message loud and clear for some time already, it seems...

Wales has everything that the tourism industry loves to sell us – the great outdoors, photogenic landscapes, sandy beaches, a proud indigenous language and history, great food and a handful of cracking cities – including one, Wrexham, that has its own Disney+ TV series thanks to some famous Hollywood football fans.

Yet, according to International Passenger Survey (IPS) data released by Visit Britain, there were 33 per cent fewer inbound visitors to Wales in 2022 than 2019. The amount international visitors spent also dropped by 24 per cent, from £515 million in 2019 to £391 million in 2022.

https://archive.ph/j4rVE

Over 12% of jobs in Wales are related to the tourist industry...

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmwelaf/220/report.html

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[servodude]

This is going to be a major economic hit to the tourist industry.

Potential visitors to Wales have been getting the message loud and clear for some time already, it seems...

Wales has everything that the tourism industry loves to sell us – the great outdoors, photogenic landscapes, sandy beaches, a proud indigenous language and history, great food and a handful of cracking cities – including one, Wrexham, that has its own Disney+ TV series thanks to some famous Hollywood football fans.

Yet, according to International Passenger Survey (IPS) data released by Visit Britain, there were 33 per cent fewer inbound visitors to Wales in 2022 than 2019. The amount international visitors spent also dropped by 24 per cent, from £515 million in 2019 to £391 million in 2022.

https://archive.ph/j4rVE

Over 12% of jobs in Wales are related to the tourist industry...

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmwelaf/220/report.html

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Isn't it worth it though not to deal with speeding whingers while you're there? (Notwithstanding the correlation vs cause stuff)

[Nimrod103]

It will be interesting to see how this Welsh experiment pans out.
Speaking personally, I have just crossed Wales off my holiday destination list. It will take too long to get to the places I want to go, combined with the heightened risk of being fined, just made the thought unappealing. This is going to be a major economic hit to the tourist industry.

Can you explain which journeys you were considering, and how this change would actually affect the real practical journey time? And how this would ruin your holiday?
Cos to be honest... it just sounds like you've reached through your sphincter for a whinge - which to be fair might be the kind of thing they want to avoid infecting Wales

AIUI almost all 30mph roads are as of today reduced to 20mph. Wales is a long drive from where I live, but there are many things there I would like to see.

Most Welsh A and B roads go through frequent towns and villages where the 20mph limit will be applied, and this is particularly the case with North, Mid and West Wales. So driving in those areas will be a succession of 30-40mph on the open road (Welsh roads are often narrow and twisty) and <20mph through towns and villages. Several campaigners claim that journeys will take a only minute longer - I don't buy that. Basically, it will be impossible to make satisfactory progress over the distances involved.

Then there is the issue of concentrating so much on the speedo, that all enjoyment and some considerations of safety are ignored.

I have frequently read that the Welsh Senate rules only for South Wales, and North, Mid and West Wales are ignored. This sounds very much like what has happened with speed limits.

[JohnB]

What irritated me was Drakeford saying that surely adding a mere minute to your journey saved 10 lives. Well with a population of 3 million each making one such journey a day, that's 2000 extra days of life wasted travelling each day, so clearly not.

[servodude]

What irritated me was Drakeford saying that surely adding a mere minute to your journey saved 10 lives. Well with a population of 3 million each making one such journey a day, that's 2000 extra days of life wasted travelling each day, so clearly not.

But saving a huge number of folks (the rest of their lives) by the numbers you give... which do you think is (a tiny bit more) significant?

(That's not to say the numbers aren't shite - but if you're going to use them, please use them consistently )

[didds]

‎


Source - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/matt-cartoons-september-2023/

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

being ridiculously literal...

The WR for the marathon is just over 2 hours. So thats 13 miles and hour. If the passenger can run at 21 mph theyd be woprld chanmpion by more than a street.

The 10K WR stands at 26minutes and change. - call it 15mph. So passenger would be world champion easy peasy.

The 100m WR is 9.58seconds. thats about 23 mph give ot take... so the passenger wold probably be at the olympics at least.

Ill get me coat.

(caveat - arithmetic is done on a sunday morning, early, with insufficent cofee imbibed)

[didds]

Then there is the issue of concentrating so much on the speedo, that all enjoyment and some considerations of safety are ignored.
.

Id hope that road & dricving concentration trumps any considerations of aesthetic appreciation whatever the requirements of the law.
And if you really REALLY need to continually look at a speedo and no where else to maintain a feeling of what speed you are at, then Id suggest you'd best not drive.

[didds]

meanwhile it ahs struck me that this is a perfect example of a government "taking back control" over another power's rules and regs and alws.

[JohnB]

I'd hope the Welsh government did a detailed economic and social study, applying a Utilitarianism model assessing Quality Life Years. I'd argue that 10 minutes of life wasted commuting or delivering stuff is the same as being deprived of 10 minutes of life by injury, or poorer air quality because engines run less efficiently at lower speeds. Increasing cross-country journey times encourages people onto longer trunk routes boosting CO2 emissions. Tourists can be dissuaded, jobs go elsewhere etc.

Its a very complicated subject, and I bet any report could be written to have the outcome the commissioners wanted by tweaking the parameters. But the worst thing is politicians justifying by anecdote, not statistics.

[servodude]

I'd argue that 10 minutes of life wasted commuting or delivering stuff is the same as being deprived of 10 minutes of life by injury, or poorer air quality because engines run less efficiently at lower speeds

Can you do that please then?
Because it seems to me that you are equating the entirety of someone's life lost with the accumulated inconvenience of a bunch of others - exactly how does the maths stack up?
And are you considering the collective experience of everyone else exposed to the traffic?
I'm interested.. and I accept it's complicated

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I'd argue that 10 minutes of life wasted commuting or delivering stuff is the same as being deprived of 10 minutes of life by injury, or poorer air quality because engines run less efficiently at lower speeds

Can you do that please then?
Because it seems to me that you are equating the entirety of someone's life lost with the accumulated inconvenience of a bunch of others - exactly how does the maths stack up?
And are you considering the collective experience of everyone else exposed to the traffic?
I'm interested.. and I accept it's complicated

Yo ... When "one" [1] completes said spreadsheet, with added presumptive graphic detail [2], to sell the numbers to a drooling audience [3], "one" can dispense with the human factor [4]

[1] One - a person or in rare cases persons, who use spreadsheets to add up numbers.
[2] Graphic detail - adding powerful images demonstrating the power of the numbers on the spreadsheet - spread washing
[3] Drooling Audience - venture capitalists & pension fund managers
[4] Human factor – spread washing allows the omission of any negative impact on humans. It can often be taken to the extreme of omitting any impact on humans as they should follow the spreadsheet numbers slavishly.

Spread washing – the complete depersonalisation of any act attributed to the production of margin. It can be applied in all human activities, not just the production of margins. If it can’t be put on a spreadsheet it isn’t worthy information.

AiY(D)

[Itsallaguess]

If the passenger can run at 21 mph they'd be world champion by more than a street

Perhaps the last thing Usain Bolt's coach says to him before a big race is -

'Don't forget big guy, you're running away from Drakeford...'

:O)

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[didds]

I'd hope the Welsh government did a detailed economic and social study,.

well if they did I expect it was studied and reported in a way that fitted the intial agenda.

thats how all official surveys, consultaions and reports work it seems.