Speed limit to be lowered to 20mph in Wales

[dionaeamuscipula]

Doing 20 in a car on a through road feels really slow. But then I am frequently guilty of doing 35 on sections that are still 30 so I am trying to push my own behavioural change

The first sentence is the reason the limit isbeing dropped.

If people obeyed the limit, then in realty they'd be doing 25-27 most of the time, and when the powers that be did a survey they wold find low average speeds.

What surprises me is that you also cycle, and yet still speed, enabling others to do the same behind you. You may be considerate to cyclists, but the followers might not be.

Well, quite. I quite often go on about disliking drivers moaning at cyclist behaviour: ultimately cyclists go through red lights because they can, drivers speed because they can. The issue is human behaviour not driver behaviour or cyclist. I reckon I speed a lot less now than I used to, partly because of doing a speed awareness course, but I felt in the context of my post it was necessary to be honest about my own behaviour. Undoubtedly the initial intention of the 20 mph limits is to push average speeds down to say 25 mph. and later to push them down again by introducing compliance checking - there are smiley face light up signs being installed but they are not yet switched on.

Yesterday the local council published its new LDP. One of their headlines is a plan to introduce some form of road use charging. Thanks for ruining my argument, Council!

DM

[didds]

Each to their own of course - but TBH if the primary and overriding concern over visiting somewhere as a tourist is how fast one can drive maybe the visit should be a track day .

didds

[didds]

"What surprises me is that you also cycle, and yet still speed, enabling others to do the same behind you"

thats becasue the Uks laws wrt speeding is for motorised vehicles only. Cycles dont have motors. QED etc.

If one is that vexxed about it, one could lobby one's MP/Govt for changes to that law.

until then - cycles are still not motorised. So they cant "speed."

didds

PS no idea whether electic cycles count as motorised. And if they do they they are under the speeding legislation obviously.

[AF62]

Electric bikes can only pedal assist you to 15mph. Anything above that is human power

If it is a legal electric bike; an awful lot aren’t and are not restricted at all.

[AF62]

Electric bikes can only pedal assist you to 15mph. Anything above that is human power

If it is a legal electric bike; an awful lot aren’t and are not restricted at all.

Then its illegall and should be taxed, insured, MOT'd etc

‘should be’, but aren’t - because doing so is just about impossible.

[didds]

‘should be’, but aren’t - because doing so is just about impossible.

Fair point.

given the perceived/alleged number of untaxed, uninsured and non MOT'd vehicles on the roads where there allegedly exist systems such as ANPR to flag them up "constantly" - that clearly don't - Id imagine such an illegal electric cycle would be all but impossible to identify.

[AF62]

given the perceived/alleged number of untaxed, uninsured and non MOT'd vehicles on the roads where there allegedly exist systems such as ANPR to flag them up "constantly" - that clearly don't

Why do you perceive there are numerous “untaxed, uninsured and non MOT'd vehicles on the roads”?

A genuine question as I don’t have any sense such cars exist in great numbers in the area I live, so interested as to why you believe that to be the case in your experience.

And to keep the thread on track, if those cars are “untaxed, uninsured and non MOT'd” then a 20mph speed limit is irrelevant as the driver will never receive a ticket.

[9873210]

Electric bikes can only pedal assist you to 15mph. Anything above that is human power

If it is a legal electric bike; an awful lot aren’t and are not restricted at all.

The distinction between an "electric bike" and an "electric motorcycle" is entirely in law. If it doesn't meet the narrow definition of an electric bike, it's not an electric bike, it's a motorcycle, or a moped if it meets those requirements.

[pje16]

We have 20mph limits near most schools in my area (NW7)
but WHY do they have to be 24/7, there are no kids in the evenings or at weekends
Most people ignore them at non school times anyway

[AF62]

Electric bikes can only pedal assist you to 15mph. Anything above that is human power

If it is a legal electric bike; an awful lot aren’t and are not restricted at all.

The distinction between an "electric bike" and an "electric motorcycle" is entirely in law. If it doesn't meet the narrow definition of an electric bike, it's not an electric bike, it's a motorcycle, or a moped if it meets those requirements.

You are correct, the distinction is in law, not how people use them.

The legislation might define something as a motorcycle or moped, but when there is no enforcement of what is and what isn’t, then they are simply bought and used as if they were electric bikes.

All the food delivery riders around me are using ‘twist and go’ electric bikes, and ‘twist and go’ isn’t permitted on an electric bike as the electric motor has to provide assistance to the person peddling not replace it.

Do the police care - seemingly not. Do the multinational food delivery companies care and who have the bikes branded with their logos - seemingly not.

[AF62]

We have 20mph limits near most schools in my area (NW7)
but WHY do they have to be 24/7, there are no kids in the evenings or at weekends
Most people ignore them at non school times anyway

After school clubs. Before school clubs. Events at the weekend. Families with children more likely to live near the school. Drivers have no clue what school times are.

[pje16]

We have 20mph limits near most schools in my area (NW7)
but WHY do they have to be 24/7, there are no kids in the evenings or at weekends
Most people ignore them at non school times anyway

After school clubs. Before school clubs. Events at the weekend. Families with children more likely to live near the school. Drivers have no clue what school times are.

Oh come on... most drivers don't know... of course they do, they went to school themselves
or do kids have lesson and clubs at 10pm now (just in case I am who you referred to )

[servodude]

We have 20mph limits near most schools in my area (NW7)
but WHY do they have to be 24/7, there are no kids in the evenings or at weekends
Most people ignore them at non school times anyway

After school clubs. Before school clubs. Events at the weekend. Families with children more likely to live near the school. Drivers have no clue what school times are.

Oh come on... most drivers don't know... of course they do, they went to school themselves
or do kids have lesson and clubs at 10pm now (just in case I am who you referred to )

Too f***ing right they do!
I've picked up our younger kid three nights this week at 10 while they prepare the final bits for the "production" next week
They're also in 9:00 till 18:30 on Sunday and we're out at a bloody 50th on Saturday, so I'm hoping she can arrange a lift!

It'll be over soon thankfully!

Tell you what though - it's the netball/basketball kids who seem to start games at bedtime all year round

- sd

[didds]

given the perceived/alleged number of untaxed, uninsured and non MOT'd vehicles on the roads where there allegedly exist systems such as ANPR to flag them up "constantly" - that clearly don't

Why do you perceive there are numerous “untaxed, uninsured and non MOT'd vehicles on the roads”?

A genuine question as I don’t have any sense such cars exist in great numbers in the area I live, so interested as to why you believe that to be the case in your experience.

And to keep the thread on track, if those cars are “untaxed, uninsured and non MOT'd” then a 20mph speed limit is irrelevant as the driver will never receive a ticket.

Fair questions

I perceive there are - because of the times I - and others known to me - have inadvertently missed such dates, yet driven around the UK totally unhindered sometimes for weeks. Then with horror realised the situation, and stopped use of the vehicle in order to rectify matters. Then there are the reports in local news etc of people being caught in possession of various drugs and firearms etc etc based on people alerting police to nefarious activities - and also that their vehicle they were arrested in was THEN found to be untaxed, insured, out of MOT etc.

As for 20mph - indeed. No connection - except as a follow up to the electric cycles comments about how those are unlikely to be caught if set to exceed their legal limitations.

didds

[MrFoolish]

Why 55 mph? At that speed it is still possible to travel a reasonable distance in a few hours, especially as there would be fewer accidents caused by idiotic drivers in their ridiculous fast cars as happens every day at the moment.

Define "reasonable" and "a few".

[pje16]

Why 55 mph? At that speed it is still possible to travel a reasonable distance in a few hours, especially as there would be fewer accidents caused by idiotic drivers in their ridiculous fast cars as happens every day at the moment.

Define "reasonable" and "a few".

3 hours 165 miles
4 hours 220 miles
5 hours 275 miles
that covers it

[MrFoolish]

After school clubs. Before school clubs. Events at the weekend. Families with children more likely to live near the school. Drivers have no clue what school times are.

What happened to telling children to look left and right before crossing the road? I've never felt unsafe crossing the road because I take reasonable care.

[AF62]

After school clubs. Before school clubs. Events at the weekend. Families with children more likely to live near the school. Drivers have no clue what school times are.

What happened to telling children to look left and right before crossing the road?

Some died and some were left disabled when that wasn't sufficient.

I've never felt unsafe crossing the road because I take reasonable care.

I have.

The number of drivers who understand and apply Highway Code rule 170 is virtually zero. And that was before the recent revision.

Plus you are hoping that the driver isn't distracted by their phone, their conversation with the passenger, or their children tucked up safe in child seats whilst they are driven the 300 yards to school, all the while they are pointing two tonnes of metal at 30mph vaguely in the right direction, whilst protected by multiple airbags with the car insulating them from the sounds of anything outside.

Meanwhile the child pedestrian when hit by the two tonnes of metal at 30mph will be hit by the slab front of the high riding SUVs that are the latest fad, and hopefully will bounce off with only broken bones and a dented skull rather than be run over by the high riding SUV and squashed.

But that's the child's fault because they didn't look left and right, and then anticipate the driver didn't understand HC rule 170.

If motorists didn't behave like 'pink marshmallows' these speed limits wouldn't be required.

[pje16]

What happened to telling children to look left and right before crossing the road? I've never felt unsafe crossing the road because I take reasonable care.

and bring back this ad from the 70s
it was very effective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRUBMBi_lp4

[bungeejumper]

and bring back this ad from the 70s
it was very effective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRUBMBi_lp4

Blimey, I'm not surprised. If Darth Vader gave me a telling off, I daresay I'd pay attention too.

BJ