The Lemon Fool

BullDog wrote:Even better news about your Toyota. If you have it serviced at a Toyota dealer, the warranty renews for another year up to 10 years or 100k miles whichever comes first. I have found that servicing and parts at a Toyota dealer costs the same or less than the same thing done by a decent independent garage. I was surprised by that, but it's true in my experience. No idea about Honda cars. These days, they used to have a reputation for extremely expensive servicing when a family member had a couple of them.

Next service is due at 98k

DrFfybes wrote:

BullDog wrote:Even better news about your Toyota. If you have it serviced at a Toyota dealer, the warranty renews for another year up to 10 years or 100k miles whichever comes first. I have found that servicing and parts at a Toyota dealer costs the same or less than the same thing done by a decent independent garage. I was surprised by that, but it's true in my experience. No idea about Honda cars. These days, they used to have a reputation for extremely expensive servicing when a family member had a couple of them.

Next service is due at 98k

AF62 wrote:

bruncher wrote:The car does have a Honda guarantee. What I missed is that they inspected it but didn't service it before selling it to me, they wouldn't show me the service book because of 'data protection'.

So they wouldn’t show you the service book before you bought the car because of ‘data protection’ but gave you the service book when you did.

And only then after buying it did you see the absence of any service history.

Hmm…

Yes that's right the salesman claimed he couldn't show me the book. In retrospect I should have challenged the unwillingness to show the service record, and could have suggested that they put a post-it note over the owner's name (but looking at the service record now, there is no owner's name or address). When I eventually collected the car and got the book, think I must have mistaken the inspection stamp in the service book as a service stamp, and the separate sheet of ticked boxes as items completed in the service rather than just an inspection checklist.

This was a major Honda dealership.

bruncher wrote:Yes that's right the salesman claimed he couldn't show me the book.

If you had walked away at that point, he would have miraculously fond it.

bruncher wrote:

AF62 wrote:

bruncher wrote:The car does have a Honda guarantee. What I missed is that they inspected it but didn't service it before selling it to me, they wouldn't show me the service book because of 'data protection'.

So they wouldn’t show you the service book before you bought the car because of ‘data protection’ but gave you the service book when you did.

And only then after buying it did you see the absence of any service history.

Hmm…

Yes that's right the salesman claimed he couldn't show me the book. In retrospect I should have challenged the unwillingness to show the service record, and could have suggested that they put a post-it note over the owner's name (but looking at the service record now, there is no owner's name or address). When I eventually collected the car and got the book, think I must have mistaken the inspection stamp in the service book as a service stamp, and the separate sheet of ticked boxes as items completed in the service rather than just an inspection checklist.

This was a major Honda dealership.

As a matter of interest, how much will the Honda dealer now charge for a full service, brake fluid change etc?

For comparison -

Last week a major service on a Toyota Auris hybrid in our family was £300 and MOT price reduced to £25. That also gives the car another year of full Toyota warranty.

bruncher wrote:

AF62 wrote:

bruncher wrote:The car does have a Honda guarantee. What I missed is that they inspected it but didn't service it before selling it to me, they wouldn't show me the service book because of 'data protection'.

So they wouldn’t show you the service book before you bought the car because of ‘data protection’ but gave you the service book when you did.

And only then after buying it did you see the absence of any service history.

Hmm…

Yes that's right the salesman claimed he couldn't show me the book. In retrospect I should have challenged the unwillingness to show the service record, and could have suggested that they put a post-it note over the owner's name (but looking at the service record now, there is no owner's name or address). When I eventually collected the car and got the book, think I must have mistaken the inspection stamp in the service book as a service stamp, and the separate sheet of ticked boxes as items completed in the service rather than just an inspection checklist.

This was a major Honda dealership.

I am aware that dealers will destroy invoices for work that the previous owner had done on the car they are taking in, because those documents frequently do contain personal information such as name, address, phone number, email address, etc. but I don’t recall ever seeing an owner’s name and address in a service book.

Which means that either major Honda dealerships don’t sufficiently train their staff or they are recruiting the same type of unscrupulous salespeople that ‘Arther Daley’ type backstreet lots do.

Either way I would have expected better from Honda, and personally I would be going back and asking to speak to the Dealer Principal to let them know what their staff are up to.

BullDog wrote:Last week a major service on a Toyota Auris hybrid in our family was £300 and MOT price reduced to £25. That also gives the car another year of full Toyota warranty.

Sounds expensive - although that depends on what a ‘major’ service comprises.

In comparison a three year manufacturer’s service plan on one of my cars cost £299 and on the other £499 - and the £499 one includes a cambelt change.

AF62 wrote:

BullDog wrote:Last week a major service on a Toyota Auris hybrid in our family was £300 and MOT price reduced to £25. That also gives the car another year of full Toyota warranty.

Sounds expensive - although that depends on what a ‘major’ service comprises.

In comparison a three year manufacturer’s service plan on one of my cars cost £299 and on the other £499 - and the £499 one includes a cambelt change.

Lucky you. But then, new car suppliers will often offer suicidally cheap servicing deals as a loss-leader when they first clinch the deal. If a standard service takes an hour and a half, plus materials, there's no way that anyone can break even on three services for £299. Or even two. And nobody, but nobody, can do a cambelt change for two hundred.

So we're probably comparing apples and pears. My eight years old Toyota's latest MOT and 24-month major service (similar to BullDog's, but not a hybrid) would have cost me £275-ish at my reliable local independent, but it was £330 at my Toyota main dealer. Since I was getting a year's extended manufacturer guarantee thrown in with that deal, it seemed like a no-brainer to go with having the right stamp in the service book. Mind you, I am old-fashioned enough to actually own my car instead of renting it on the never-never, so perhaps my priorities are different?

Especially since they valeted the car as well. Not that common on an eight year old car - in my experience it usually stops after three.

BJ

pje16 wrote:

richlist wrote:My Range Rover along with plenty of other vehicles has service intervals, that includes oil changes, every 2 years. But I am pretty sure they put synthetic oil in the vehicles.
I wouldn't expect a Honda Jazz to have synthetic oil.

My BMW uses synthetic oil and also has a 2-year interval between changes

So does mine but IMV it’s a false economy so I do an interim annual oil change. A small cost compared with potential engine damage. The earlier F10 2 litre cars were quite prone to camchain failures which many people attributed in part at least to 2 year oil changes.

AF62 wrote:

bruncher wrote:

AF62 wrote:

bruncher wrote:The car does have a Honda guarantee. What I missed is that they inspected it but didn't service it before selling it to me, they wouldn't show me the service book because of 'data protection'.

So they wouldn’t show you the service book before you bought the car because of ‘data protection’ but gave you the service book when you did.

And only then after buying it did you see the absence of any service history.

Hmm…

Yes that's right the salesman claimed he couldn't show me the book. In retrospect I should have challenged the unwillingness to show the service record, and could have suggested that they put a post-it note over the owner's name (but looking at the service record now, there is no owner's name or address). When I eventually collected the car and got the book, think I must have mistaken the inspection stamp in the service book as a service stamp, and the separate sheet of ticked boxes as items completed in the service rather than just an inspection checklist.

This was a major Honda dealership.

I am aware that dealers will destroy invoices for work that the previous owner had done on the car they are taking in, because those documents frequently do contain personal information such as name, address, phone number, email address, etc. but I don’t recall ever seeing an owner’s name and address in a service book.

Which means that either major Honda dealerships don’t sufficiently train their staff or they are recruiting the same type of unscrupulous salespeople that ‘Arther Daley’ type backstreet lots do.

Either way I would have expected better from Honda, and personally I would be going back and asking to speak to the Dealer Principal to let them know what their staff are up to.

Good idea - re talking to the dealer principal - I'm taking the car for service in a few days, will try to talk to him then.

bungeejumper wrote:

AF62 wrote:

BullDog wrote:Last week a major service on a Toyota Auris hybrid in our family was £300 and MOT price reduced to £25. That also gives the car another year of full Toyota warranty.

Sounds expensive - although that depends on what a ‘major’ service comprises.

In comparison a three year manufacturer’s service plan on one of my cars cost £299 and on the other £499 - and the £499 one includes a cambelt change.

Lucky you. But then, new car suppliers will often offer suicidally cheap servicing deals as a loss-leader when they first clinch the deal.

Neither of the service plans were purchased with the cars, but purchased afterwards.

The £299 was offered by the manufacturer to anyone who’s car was less than a year old to cover the first three annual services, but the £499 deal was offered by the manufacturer to existing owners (and it didn’t matter if you were the first, second, third, or subsequent owner) to cover services 4, 5 & 6.

bungeejumper wrote:If a standard service takes an hour and a half, plus materials, there's no way that anyone can break even on three services for £299. Or even two. And nobody, but nobody, can do a cambelt change for two hundred.

So we're probably comparing apples and pears. My eight years old Toyota's latest MOT and 24-month major service (similar to BullDog's, but not a hybrid) would have cost me £275-ish at my reliable local independent, but it was £330 at my Toyota main dealer. Since I was getting a year's extended manufacturer guarantee thrown in with that deal, it seemed like a no-brainer to go with having the right stamp in the service book. Mind you, I am old-fashioned enough to actually own my car instead of renting it on the never-never, so perhaps my priorities are different?

Especially since they valeted the car as well. Not that common on an eight year old car - in my experience it usually stops after three.

BJ

No idea how the economics works for the manufacturers, but with two separate companies offering them, then it must work for them.

BullDog wrote:

bruncher wrote:

AF62 wrote:

bruncher wrote:The car does have a Honda guarantee. What I missed is that they inspected it but didn't service it before selling it to me, they wouldn't show me the service book because of 'data protection'.

So they wouldn’t show you the service book before you bought the car because of ‘data protection’ but gave you the service book when you did.

And only then after buying it did you see the absence of any service history.

Hmm…

Yes that's right the salesman claimed he couldn't show me the book. In retrospect I should have challenged the unwillingness to show the service record, and could have suggested that they put a post-it note over the owner's name (but looking at the service record now, there is no owner's name or address). When I eventually collected the car and got the book, think I must have mistaken the inspection stamp in the service book as a service stamp, and the separate sheet of ticked boxes as items completed in the service rather than just an inspection checklist.

This was a major Honda dealership.

As a matter of interest, how much will the Honda dealer now charge for a full service, brake fluid change etc?
.

£297 - but a total of £361.24 includes MoT and a replacement rear wiper blade. This did not include changing the brake fluid - they said that would have been/should have been/probably was done at three years but conceded that there was no evidence it had ever been done. So I have left the car another day for them to do that which will apparently costs a further £77

The boss was on holiday, but the service desk has said they have messaged him to contact me on his return. We will see if he does. Not happy.