Giles Coran on electric cars

[Dod101]

Giles has gone to town on his electric car in today's Times. It is a Jaguar iPace, costing a mere £65,000. He is giving up on it and is about to buy a petrol car. He tells us that the electric vehicle industry is no readier to get a family home from Cornwall at Christmas time than it is to fly us all to Jupiter. (Yes he condemns the entire industry, not just because of the apparent unreliability of the vehicles but because of the lack of infrastructure and reliability of the chargers). It is an amusing article but is evidently the result of his frustration with the entire set up. Thought that some might be amused, but I think the article is behind a paywall.

Dod

[BullDog]

Yes, I read it on line last night. He has been very unhappy with his electric Jaguar since buying it two years ago. My personal view is that only an idiot would pay £65000 to be a beta tester for a car company. Especially a car company making vehicles I regard as almost basket cases. But there you go.

[Itsallaguess]

Yes he condemns the entire industry, not just because of the apparent unreliability of the vehicles but because of the lack of infrastructure and reliability of the chargers

And it's not just the lack of infrastructure and the [lack of] reliability of the chargers, but the lack of forward-looking reliability of the charging model itself...

From a recent Telegraph article -

Electric vehicle drivers have been hit with peak-time price rises at thousands of roadside charging points.

Major networks including Ubitricity, the UK’s largest public charge-point operator, and Geniepoint have introduced “dynamic pricing” where users pay extra if they charge at times of day when electricity demand is high.

A quarter of public charge-points, excluding rapid and ultra-rapid devices, are now covered by this pricing model, according to the market analyst Cornwall Insight - although this is concentrated in London.

More than a fifth of the rapid and ultra-rapid network is also covered by peak and off-peak rates. Tesla and Char.gy, owned by Zouk, also use dynamic pricing.

Drivers are charged a higher or lower rate depending on when they top up, to reflect wholesale and network costs which increase when demand is high.

Ubitricity is currently charging drivers 45 pence per kilowatt-hour for 21 hours of the day, down from a previous 49 pence per kilowatt-hour, but 79 pence per kilowatt hour between 4pm and 7pm - a difference of 75pc.

https://tinyurl.com/2o7o3awz

I've always felt with regards to this emergent transport technology, that it's one thing to take a view on how the maturity of the cars and batteries themselves might evolve, but a separate thing entirely to see how the charging infrastructure and the charging-costs also develop, and for me those secondary elements are likely to be just as important in terms of encouraging me towards this technology as the cars themselves, and I've got to say that stories like the above do nothing to encourage me in remaining sceptical at this stage...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Dod101]

I think that is correct made worse by another point that Giles Coran raised which is that it seems that the range of electric vehicles is nothing like the range claimed by the manufacturers.

I am glad I opted for my petrol Q5. It is not cheap to run but (touch wood) it is reliable and has a range of at least 400 miles.

Dod

[BullDog]

Presently I think plug in hybrid makes a good deal of sense. I know the downsides like dragging two engines and batteries around etc.....

But I find that maybe 80% or more of my journeys are fully electric and the charging is overnight from home at 7p per unit. Once I am out of battery the vehicle does about 45mpg on petrol. I get between 2.5 and 3.5 miles per unit of electric depending on temperature. Call it 3 overall so about 2.3p per mile on electric.

No range anxiety and no worries about chargers not working when I need one. And that does happen too often.

Making the best of immature technology, I suppose.

There's no way I am paying upwards of 75p per unit to recharge the vehicle. 75p to drive 3 miles.

[scrumpyjack]

He obviously got a dud! But no one else I know with EVs (Tesla, Nissan and VW) have had such problems. I agree it is only viable at present if you have a home charger and don't make too many long distance journeys, particularly at times when everyone else is. I've only had to charge away from home twice in 18 months and then used a Tesco 50kw one with no probs. I certainly wouldn't go back to an ICE car.

ps. admission - I've got my 2013 VW Golf as backup, but hardly ever use it. I just tend to use it if I'm going to park somewhere tight or liable to vandalism.

[CliffEdge]

Electric vehicles are just a ruse to make cars unaffordable for the average citizen. Don't believe me, just look at the evidence.

[Tedx]

Presently I think plug in hybrid makes a good deal of sense. I know the downsides like dragging two engines and batteries around etc.....

But I find that maybe 80% or more of my journeys are fully electric and the charging is overnight from home at 7p per unit. Once I am out of battery the vehicle does about 45mpg on petrol. I get between 2.5 and 3.5 miles per unit of electric depending on temperature. Call it 3 overall so about 2.3p per mile on electric.

No range anxiety and no worries about chargers not working when I need one. And that does happen too often.

Making the best of immature technology, I suppose.

There's no way I am paying upwards of 75p per unit to recharge the vehicle. 75p to drive 3 miles.

I've always thought that the Chevvy Volt dino juice/electric is the way to go. Just a highly efficient generator directly charging a smaller battery pack.

[monabri]

These electric vehicles with their big price tags....all soon to be subect to high Vehicle Excise Duty as they are typically over £40k.

https://heycar.co.uk/blog/electric-car- ... -ved-bands

"From 1 April 2025, all electric car owners will be required to pay the standard rate of road tax VED, which is currently £165 per year. EV drivers who own a car with a list price of £40,000 or more will also pay the £355 premium car tax rate, which will take their yearly VED rate to £520".

Only 2 years away....

Either manufacturers reduce the EV premium prices or the UK will turn into a version of Havana where we drive ageing petrol & diesel cars.


edit : small NISSAN Ariya ..£53k
https://tools.nissan.co.uk/finance-calc ... 00D2S5HE_A

[88V8]

Giles has gone to town on his electric car in today's Times. It is a Jaguar iPace, costing a mere £65,000. He is giving up on it and is about to buy a petrol car.

Haven't read the article yet, but iirc it's also been stolen at least twice, no doubt due to the ridiculous keyless entry system that manufacturers insist on... perhaps it's cheaper than fitting proper locks.

Another thing he's complained of is arriving at charging stations to find all the places full, or not working. And having to download an app (whatever that is) for each different charge-provider.

I dare say it will all be good with EVs one day... after all, in the early days of motoring one had to buy petrol from chemists, if one could find it at all.

Me, I'll be sticking to a ... V8

[Arborbridge]

Presently I think plug in hybrid makes a good deal of sense. I know the downsides like dragging two engines and batteries around etc.....

But I find that maybe 80% or more of my journeys are fully electric and the charging is overnight from home at 7p per unit. Once I am out of battery the vehicle does about 45mpg on petrol. I get between 2.5 and 3.5 miles per unit of electric depending on temperature. Call it 3 overall so about 2.3p per mile on electric.

No range anxiety and no worries about chargers not working when I need one. And that does happen too often.

Making the best of immature technology, I suppose.

There's no way I am paying upwards of 75p per unit to recharge the vehicle. 75p to drive 3 miles.

I'm not sure why you would have to pay 75p when you don't now.
I did think hard about a Hybrid, but in the end chose an EV for my next car - mainly because I just felt like trying one.
Most of my journeys will come within the 200-220 mile range which is a restriction I hope to live with. My main anxiety is not the range, but the software aspect. It seems to me that EVs are in effect unreliable computers with wheels and I've heard many accounts of cars working perfectly well until the suddenly don't, and this can happen unexpectedly anywhere at any time. This is quite unlike a normal car where one usually gets some warning such as "expensive noises" for quite some time before failure.
Yet people who drive EVs mostly love them and would not want to go back. As regards risk or range, many owners have undertaken long journeys through Europe to Italy, Spain and Germany, for example.

Germany - that reminds me. On a recent trip which included coache travel, I was amazed how few EVs I saw in say, a couple of hours on the road. Where I live, I would see more EVs in an hour than I did in the whole of my German travels. I find that strange since they are big EV producers.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

These electric vehicles with their big price tags....all soon to be subect to high Vehicle Excise Duty as they are typically over £40k.

https://heycar.co.uk/blog/electric-car- ... -ved-bands

"From 1 April 2025, all electric car owners will be required to pay the standard rate of road tax VED, which is currently £165 per year. EV drivers who own a car with a list price of £40,000 or more will also pay the £355 premium car tax rate, which will take their yearly VED rate to £520".

Only 2 years away....

Either manufacturers reduce the EV premium prices or the UK will turn into a version of Havana where we drive ageing petrol & diesel cars.


edit : small NISSAN Ariya ..£53k
https://tools.nissan.co.uk/finance-calc ... 00D2S5HE_A

We all knew that the VED on electrics would go up, but I've been taken aback that it has happened so soon before they are very common. Aren't we trying to reduce use of fossil fuel?

How ironic that when I switch to an EV from my diesel, the duty will increase from £20 pa to £165, yet my motoring will become less polluting (at least in my local area). That does not seem right, somehow.


Arb.

[scrumpyjack]

Yes it is crazy that the road tax on my VW Golf is £30 and they are going to make me pay £165 for the VW ID4

AIUI the premium car tax of £355 a year will only apply to cars bought after 1.4.2025 not to existing cars.

[Howard]

I’m guessing the journalist’s experience is analogous to buying a Landrover to do short trips for shopping in central London?

I have been fortunate in driving five electric cars. Two BMWs, Nissan, Kia and Tesla. All brilliant to drive. We lease a Kia.

None of the BEVs I’ve driven would be suitable for family holidays to far flung places traveling long distances at high speed in areas far from chargers. And, in my view, not really practical for someone who doesn’t have a home charger. People I know with expensive BEVs generally have them because of the massive government subsidies when used as a company car (and, of course for public sector managers' cars).

Where our Kia excels is for journeys shorter than 250 miles. It loves city centre driving, regenerating its battery every time the traffic slows and in these conditions driven slowly it has a range of around 300 miles in normal weather.

It is a second car and for very short journeys it is a delight. In the recent cold spell of minus five degrees the heated steering wheel was warm within a minute and the seats within two minutes. And the fan heater defrosts the windscreen quickly.

It’s not complicated to drive, with the usual controls on stalks, switches and the infotainment on a large touchscreen. And wonderfully responsive if you put your foot down.

Over 18 months it has been reliable, with one visit to a dealer for a routine service. And very economical. It costs the same as leasing our previous petrol Golf.

And what’s not to like about the cost of home charging? A 100 mile range top up overnight at off peak rate costs around £7.

regards

Howard

[redsturgeon]

I was a fan of BEVs and have been looking to buy one seriously.since a couple of years ago but my view have changed somewhat due to the following:

1. The supply chain issues have severely curtailed choice and increased prices.

2. The away from home charging issues do not seem to be getting any better.

3. The price of electricity, away from home charging has become much more expensive.

4. The issues over the occasional long range journeys.

On this last one I had thought that having three cars would be OK if one was a BEV but my daughter's wedding over the New Year period in France showed up shortcomings in my thinking. To transport the extended family and luggage to the Loire required all three cars and the one best suited to the job was the 16 year old Honda Accord diesel. It easily covered the one way journey of 500 miles on one tank where both other cars, a petrol and a PHEV both required an expensive fill up on the autoroute.

As it was the journey took around 10 hours door to door but I'd guess that most BEVs would have required two stops to recharge with the requirement to understand which apps etc were needed at various French rechargers and the possibility of either queues or out of order chargers. This was hassle I was happy to do without.

At the moment I am happier with hybrid technology since it suits 90% of my daily journeys around town while allowing relatively care free longer trips (smaller tank size than non hybrid allowing about 350 miles range).

BEV will come for me but not quite yet.

John

[Lootman]

At the moment I am happier with hybrid technology since it suits 90% of my daily journeys around town while allowing relatively care free longer trips (smaller tank size than non hybrid allowing about 350 miles range).

BEV will come for me but not quite yet.

The number one argument my wife and I had in 2022 was about a new vehicle. She was adamant that she wanted an EV and I was adamant that we get another ICE vehicle. We both drive both cars so we have to agree, rather than each have our own car.

So a hybrid was the obvious compromise and that is what we did.

At my age I reckon I can get away with driving ICE vehicles for the rest of my days and so I won't have to futz around with EVs. But hybrids are OK because they drive just like an ICE vehicle anyway.

Divorce avoided.

[AF62]

I saw Giles Coren’s previous moans, and mainly they just seem to be about having bought an unreliable car and using his power as a journalist to try and embarrass Jaguar to buy it back - and obviously that hasn’t worked as he still has it.

As for BEVs generally it depends what you want the car for.

Do lots of long journeys - not for you. Don’t have a drive and a charger at home - not for you.

But if you can have a charger at home and it is a second car that is being used mostly around town or jaunts to the nearby areas, then what is not to like.

The BEV we own has a range of 180 to 220, winter to summer and that covers 99.5% of journeys we make.

And as for the false claims of range, does anyone’s ICE car actually deliver the advertised MPG, especially on a short couple of mile cold morning journey - no ICE car I ever owned did.

Aside from the cheap running cost with BEVs, there are the other benefits, such as my wife when she heads out to swimming at 8am loves the fact that the car has pre-warmed and de-iced itself whilst she was still in bed, while the neighbours are scraping the ice off theirs. And the reverse in the summer, that you can tell it to run the aircon from the app before you get back to a meltingly hot car.

And that’s before you get to the instant torque that makes them such fun to drive around town, and I would say safer when you need to make a quick entrance onto a busy roundabout or out of a junction.

So of course a BEV won’t be suitable for everyone, but to argue they are not suitable for anyone is foolish.

[Dod101]

These electric vehicles with their big price tags....all soon to be subect to high Vehicle Excise Duty as they are typically over £40k.

https://heycar.co.uk/blog/electric-car- ... -ved-bands

"From 1 April 2025, all electric car owners will be required to pay the standard rate of road tax VED, which is currently £165 per year. EV drivers who own a car with a list price of £40,000 or more will also pay the £355 premium car tax rate, which will take their yearly VED rate to £520".

Only 2 years away....

Either manufacturers reduce the EV premium prices or the UK will turn into a version of Havana where we drive ageing petrol & diesel cars.


edit : small NISSAN Ariya ..£53k
https://tools.nissan.co.uk/finance-calc ... 00D2S5HE_A

We all knew that the VED on electrics would go up, but I've been taken aback that it has happened so soon before they are very common. Aren't we trying to reduce use of fossil fuel?

How ironic that when I switch to an EV from my diesel, the duty will increase from £20 pa to £165, yet my motoring will become less polluting (at least in my local area). That does not seem right, somehow.


Arb.

Yes but charging diesels only £20 was always stupid. It annoys me that mu neighbour runs an old diesel and pays only £20 whereas my new petrol Q5 costs me around £520. However I know which I prefer.

Dod

[bluedonkey]

I dismiss pretty much anything Giles Coren says.

[bluedonkey]

Yes but charging diesels only £20 was always stupid. It annoys me that mu neighbour runs an old diesel and pays only £20 whereas my new petrol Q5 costs me around £520. However I know which I prefer.

Dod

The £520 is clearly a tax on the more well off I suppose. Can't imagine the average Brit choosing to pay that.