Generational ignorance

[Urbandreamer]

As said. We can ALWAYS learn "new" things. This thread starts from the premise that inexperience and lack of knowledge, presupposes an inability to learn.

At least with the demographic on TLF, it is not about inability to learn. It is about being unwilling to learn new things when the payoff seems so small.

Well... I did actually think that was more or less what I said.

OK, I did say that you (and many others) probably didn't lack the ability.
I also may have said that you might have difficulties with availability.

If you, or indeed I, want to take advantage of what is available........

Err, are we actually debating anything.
I suspect not.

Seriously, much of this thread has been about what others SHOULD NOT WANT. Because it is what is the most available thing. Posts by people who want things restricted to not what others want, but what they want. Note the term restricted.

Ps I may or may not have said the same thing about the likes of online banking, shopping etc.

[9873210]

I wonder how new drivers, who have always learned and passed their test with synchromesh, will fare when faced with a proper crash box?

Oh wait, we've already done that.

As said. We can ALWAYS learn "new" things. This thread starts from the premise that inexperience and lack of knowledge, presupposes an inability to learn.

There are two very different discussions going on.

The first post is that people should know how to drive a particular vehicle before they drive it and that not knowing how to do that is bad.

The second view is that people should know how to drive every vehicle that existed since some grumpy old fool learned to drive and that not knowing how to do that is bad.

Look at the posts about Americans insisting on renting an automatic transmission. From the first point of view they are exercizing superior judgement to avoid accidents. From the second point of view the lack of skills is a forerunner of the apocalypse.

Some skills go obsolete, can be reserved for history buffs and the SCA, leaving us all better off.

[bungeejumper]

As said. We can ALWAYS learn "new" things. This thread starts from the premise that inexperience and lack of knowledge, presupposes an inability to learn.

Whereas there are several opposing premises.

One of which is that we old farts have got along quite nicely with our car control, in a technological period where the basic controls didn't change very much from one decade to another, but now they're all changing every three years. Not always for self-evidently good reasons, or with any regard for drivers' needs to have one car's controls basically resembling those of most others. (The hire car complaint.)

Another is that there'd probably be a strong market among us older buyers for new cars that just didn't keep on changing all the basics around all the time. Except that no sane manufacturer would want to make such solidly simple cars because they're ..... oh, hang on, anybody for a Suzuki Swift?

And finally, as Looty said, you get to a point where you just don't enjoy the buzz of learning new techno stuff any more.
In the inimitable words of Homer Simpson:

"Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home wine making course and I forgot how to drive?"

BJ

[Urbandreamer]

As said. We can ALWAYS learn "new" things. This thread starts from the premise that inexperience and lack of knowledge, presupposes an inability to learn.

Whereas there are several opposing premises.

One of which is that we old farts have got along quite nicely with our car control, in a technological period where the basic controls didn't change very much from one decade to another, but now they're all changing every three years. Not always for self-evidently good reasons, or with any regard for drivers' needs to have one car's controls basically resembling those of most others. (The hire car complaint.)

Another is that there'd probably be a strong market among us older buyers for new cars that just didn't keep on changing all the basics around all the time. Except that no sane manufacturer would want to make such solidly simple cars because they're ..... oh, hang on, anybody for a Suzuki Swift?

And finally, as Looty said, you get to a point where you just don't enjoy the buzz of learning new techno stuff any more.
In the inimitable words of Homer Simpson:

"Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home wine making course and I forgot how to drive?"

BJ

I actually had a Swift for a time. I had HUGE problems with the exhaust as the company kept changing the design every 6 months and had very similar part numbers for totally dissimilar parts.

Anyway new things that I REALLY like, that didn't exist when I started to drive.
Galvanized bodies. You can no longer see the car rusting before your eyes.
Electric mirrors. Yes it was easy to adjust the drivers door one before, BUT it wasn't heated and now is.
ABS. Sure I very seldom need it, but it has saved the odd prang in icy conditions.
Bluetooth. Well my car doesn't have it but I use Aux-in. Great for talking books on long journeys.

I don't have that wonderful feature where you can pre-warm the cockpit. Are you really claiming that sitting in an icy chair is so great though?
Nor do I have that great patented de-icing front windscreen. I wish that I did.
My car doesn't have built in satnav, but I regard satnav as a great invention. Especially if paired to an internet connection to check traffic conditions.

I confess to driving a old i30, so quite a simple car. Strangely it's controls haven't changed in all the time that I've owned it and certainly not every three years. May I suggest that keeping a car into the time that it legally needs an MOT might reduce some of the frustrations.

[bungeejumper]

Anyway new things that I REALLY like, that didn't exist when I started to drive.
Galvanized bodies. You can no longer see the car rusting before your eyes.
Electric mirrors. Yes it was easy to adjust the drivers door one before, BUT it wasn't heated and now is.
ABS. Sure I very seldom need it, but it has saved the odd prang in icy conditions.
Bluetooth. Well my car doesn't have it but I use Aux-in. Great for talking books on long journeys.

LOL, my car does have bluetooth but I've never felt the need to use it. I am a walking no-go area for bluetooth, and I have never persuaded any connection to hold up for more than 25 seconds in my entire life. But then, I don't use my phone in the car anyway. Maybe that would change if I didn't have an independent satnav?

As for galvanisation, electric mirrors and ABS, they have the beauty of not needing any learning curve at all from me. They just work! Same goes for traction control.

I do like my heated seats, of course. One nice old-fashioned push on an old-fashioned dashboard button, and they work. Another push and they stop. I can live with that level of tech sophistication.

Nor do I have that great patented de-icing front windscreen. I wish that I did.

I don't miss mine. I had it on my Focus, and as the car aged the heating strips conked out one by one, leaving me with zebra stripes. Then I had to have a broken screen replaced, and it never properly worked again. All those edge connectors, all that glue. They just weren't made for each other

BJ

[Lootman]

As for galvanisation, electric mirrors and ABS, they have the beauty of not needing any learning curve at all from me. They just work! Same goes for traction control.

I do like my heated seats, of course. One nice old-fashioned push on an old-fashioned dashboard button, and they work. Another push and they stop. I can live with that level of tech sophistication.

My Volvo from 30 years ago had heated seats, in the front anyway, so that is not really new tech.

As for the rest there, as you say, it doesn't really affect how the car is driven so nothing new to learn. Ditto my wife's hybrid, that drives just like a normal car.

But I still dread hiring a car now, as you can never be sure what you will get and how it will work.

[Urbandreamer]

The wife is watching a helicopter ambulance program, which has reported an interesting new (well to me) car feature. Apparently a BMW was in a nasty accident upon a country road. The car phoned BMW who contacted the emergency services.

The paramedics felt that the feature might save the odd life if nobody came across an accident in a timely fashion.

[swill453]

The wife is watching a helicopter ambulance program, which has reported an interesting new (well to me) car feature. Apparently a BMW was in a nasty accident upon a country road. The car phoned BMW who contacted the emergency services.

The paramedics felt that the feature might save the odd life if nobody came across an accident in a timely fashion.

There was a bit on the radio last week about a smart watch automatically calling an ambulance after detecting slow heart rate on its wearer. Turned out their pacemaker was faulty.

Scott.

[Howard]

The wife is watching a helicopter ambulance program, which has reported an interesting new (well to me) car feature. Apparently a BMW was in a nasty accident upon a country road. The car phoned BMW who contacted the emergency services.

The paramedics felt that the feature might save the odd life if nobody came across an accident in a timely fashion.

Yes, the BMW dealer explained to me when I collected my car five years ago that, in the case of a crash, it would immediately transmit a lot of data to BMW, including the speed of the car just before the impact, what happened to the car and what forces occurred immediately afterwards, what its orientation was once it came to rest (including whether it was upside down) and which airbags had deployed.

Nearly five years later a car crashed into the back of us when I was stationary at a major road junction. Within a minute I had a call from BMW driver assistance through the car emergency system asking me if we were ok and confirming how badly the car was damaged. They offered assistance but we were ok to drive home.

Other modern cars have the same facility. In the case of a really serious accident I imagine this information would be available to the authorities.

regards

Howard

[9873210]

ABS [has] the beauty of not needing any learning curve at all from me. They just work! Same goes for traction control.

ABS does have a learning curve. "Stomp and steer" v. "pump and pray".

If you stomp older brakes you lose directional control. If you pump ABS brakes they won't perform worse than older brakes, but they will not perform as well as they could. Best to learn the right habits before an emergency. A little practice on a closed course can help.

[bungeejumper]

Yes, the BMW dealer explained to me when I collected my car five years ago that, in the case of a crash, it would immediately transmit a lot of data to BMW, including the speed of the car just before the impact, what happened to the car and what forces occurred immediately afterwards, what its orientation was once it came to rest (including whether it was upside down) and which airbags had deployed.

A former neighbour sent her Beemer backwards through a hedge, after she lost control on an icy bend in the local lanes. The car was a write-off, which was a pity because it was rather nice and she had been very proud of it. She went out and bought another one of the exact same model in exactly the same colour. (Presumably hoping that her friends from the bridge club wouldn't notice the substitution?)

A few months later, she was coming back along the same lane, and she skidded on the same patch of ice, and went backwards through the same hedge. At which point a voice from the dashboard said, "Oi, didn't we tell you last time not to do that?"

BJ

(True story - well, until the last bit maybe.....)

[DrFfybes]

ABS [has] the beauty of not needing any learning curve at all from me. They just work! Same goes for traction control.

ABS does have a learning curve. "Stomp and steer" v. "pump and pray".

Moreover when the ABS does kick in, normal steering inputs do not work, the vehicle will understeer massively and you really need to spin the wheel very quickly and a long way. ISTR seeing this on Top Gear many moons ago, probably when Angela Rippon or William Wollard were extolling the virtues of the new technology. It came to mind at the Thruxton skid pan day where I was the only person who managed to stomp on the brakes and swerve around the water fountain rather than blunder straight through it with half a turn of lock on.