EV Home Charger?

[didds]

but that argument why others shouldn't just doesn't hold water.

I didnt say that though did I.

[GrahamPlatt]

EVs are very much “horses for courses”. Simply would not suit me.
My 13-year-old VW diesel is “low mileage” - it did 2,700 miles last year.
BUT, it’s never used as a “run-around”. It sits on the drive for weeks (sometimes months) on end.
When I use it it’ll be for trips of 3-400 miles at a time, for several days at a stretch.
Tanked it up 6 times in 2023, so probably less than 1 hour “charging time”. All year.

I really do want to “go green” and would love to change over to an electric car.
Best I can do for now is use the electric bicycle whilst at home and save the diesel for the big stuff.
Meanwhile, battery tech is improving. On day, Rodney.

[Urbandreamer]

Come on didds, be sensible. Sure, you could have argued about problems driving from Lands end to John o groats. Instead you chose traveling from home to the nearest town and back.

because Im likely to do that. Swindon and back is a 50 mile return. Like what others have suggested a 10 hour (OK, 8 hours!) charge would provide on a domestic supply.

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.
Total and absolute rubbish.
It's obvious that you believe that your "domestic supply" can't cope with an electric shower or electric cooker!

The low values assumed a 13A plug. If you actually read the thread then you will realize that is only one option.
Elsewhere on TLF we were talking a 32A circuit for induction hobs. I know that similar is used on showers.
Oh for your info showers can be up to 7KW, or THE SAME as a dedicated domestic EV charger.

Indeed I MUST assume that you didn't even read this post in the thread.
viewtopic.php?p=638087#p638087

Other threads have considered "commando sockets", which come in 16A or 32A variants. Not a great idea, because the charge controller must then reside in the cable. Far better a dedicated charger that can monitor how much in total your house is using and restrict the flow to the car when, people with electric showers or cookers, use them.

Simple math of 8hr * 230V * 30A is 55kwh. More than enough to get you to Swindon and back. Oh and more than that Mini could store.
Another post pointed out that you may not charge at 30A, if the car can't accept that rate of charge.

I'm going to ignore what you think that you claimed, as you just claimed that a domestic supply could not run a shower.

Ps I believe that the smallest domestic supply is 60A (see my earlier post on this thread to check your own supply). However, as indicated, it is supposed to cope with cookers and showers.

[swill453]

The low values assumed a 13A plug. If you actually read the thread then you will realize that is only one option.
Elsewhere on TLF we were talking a 32A circuit for induction hobs. I know that similar is used on showers.
Oh for your info showers can be up to 7KW, or THE SAME as a dedicated domestic EV charger.

My last-but-one house had a 10.8kW electric shower. On its own dedicated chunky cable, of course.

Scott.

[didds]

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.
Total and absolute rubbish.

?????????


everything I've written is based on what others have said in this thread!!! You'd best go and tell everybody else what they have written is rubbish. All Ive done is put 2 and 2 togetherfro0m what has been described.

Don't shoot the messenger cos you dont like the message from others!

[didds]

from this very thread.

"Assuming 10 rather than 13A for 8hr, that's 18kwh.
I've just checked and the Mini's battery is 32.6kwh, which they claim as 100 miles.

So 100 miles every day is out of the question doing that
Drive every other day, less than 50 miles a day, or charge for longer and she could be golden. I calculate a full charge from flat to take about 16hr at 10A."

That was written by a poster named... checks notes... urbanDreamer.

whatever

[Urbandreamer]

from this very thread.

"Assuming 10 rather than 13A for 8hr, that's 18kwh.
I've just checked and the Mini's battery is 32.6kwh, which they claim as 100 miles.

So 100 miles every day is out of the question doing that
Drive every other day, less than 50 miles a day, or charge for longer and she could be golden. I calculate a full charge from flat to take about 16hr at 10A."

That was written by a poster named... checks notes... urbanDreamer.

whatever

As I said, you clearly don't understand things.
We were talking about options.

But you clearly don't understand the difference between plugging into a 13A plug, fitting a charger with the existing supply, or upgrading the house (domestic) supply to cope with a larger charger.

I DID mention that in the fact that many homes have a 60A supply while another poster suggested that a 100A supply (you know, what is known as a domestic supply), might be required.

I suggest that you organize a supply of diesel to your home (domestic supply), so that you can benefit from the advantages that EV drivers experience.

Sorry folks, this is theoretical. I still drive a petrol car and do have to make a special trip to refill it. I can't refuel at home from a delivery. But didds is being stupid. I suspect deliberately so. He can't drive to his nearest town, so NOBODY can! BUT he can drive to refuel! Domestic supply is limited to 10A, because I picked it as a good limit for a 13A socket (based upon industry standard).

A "Ring" is usually rated at 32A, which doesn't cover a lot of sockets if they all draw 13A. Less than three by my math. So didds just doesn't understand. Basically, as previously said, you need bigger wires! OH, and if they fitted larger wires and fuses, you could have a fire at the socket. Great idea didds. You need to fit a bigger socket/outlet, or something dedicated to a job.

Ps, while I admit to limited knowledge about cars, I trained as an electrical engineer. I know a bit about electricity, heat and conductivity. BTW domestic wiring in the UK is a compromise, to save copper. Hence my assumption that it's a bad idea to draw more than 10A from any standard socket. However, as I said, it could be enough.

Oh BTW I have blown 60A fuses and vaporized probes used on Fluke meters in the past.

[scotview]

My wife, in a fit of uncharacteristic spending, has bought a nearly new Mini Electric EV
I've been asked to get a suitable charging point installed at the house, which has off street parking.
I know nothing about this!
Any pointers please.

We have a Zappi charger from Myenergi.
You can set the charging amps so as to protect the house incomer fuse, I've set ours to 40 amps for a 60 amp main fuse.
The app is very useful since it shows daily, weekly, monthly charging and house energy usage in graphical format.
My wife and myself find the charger easy to use with our VW ID3.
Installation was relatively easy but we did install an additional consumer unit for the garage and Zappi.
We also installed an additional cable run in case we put in another charger.
Myenergi have brought out an new battery product, Libbi, and this is integrated with the Zappi and exploits beneficial tariffs like Octopus.
It's a UK product.

[Howard]

It’s amusing reading posts about the complications of electric cars written by people who have never had one. Are they also too nervous to use an electric kettle?

The BEV process is highly technical, you get the car and, given you have the off road space like the OP, have a socket installed by a qualified electrician, you plug the car in and it’s ready to go the next morning.

Do nervous drivers, afraid of BEVs, lead such sheltered lives that, for example, they advise people never to try a musical instrument? All those strings and keys are too complicated - they will mess with your mind.

If you have the inclination you can fiddle around with your mobile phone and control everything - including your kettle these days. Most of us probably don’t bother - we’re too busy writing posts on Lemon Fool.

regards

Howard

[airbus330]

I'd like to thank everyone for their comments, advice and input. It has been very useful.
Literally got thrown into this and 5 days later I have learnt what a complex subject it is and how many factors have to be considered. One of my wife's friends today, announced that she had also ordered a Skoda EV and I started asking her some of the q's that have cropped up here. Her answer was, don't know or care, I have paid someone to sort that out. She has a modern house, with parking plus ample cash, and this, IMO, suits the EV model world.
I have learnt
that my old house with old electrics needs upgrading for an EV Charger.
EV Chargers offer as many complexities as a mobile phone and as many price permutations.
That with care, a small battery EV, such as our MINI, combined with a specific 'local' lifestyle, can be happily run off a properly installed external 13a socket.
Some EV Chargers don't require a 100a fuse.
National Grid DNO in my area are obstructive in upgrading the said fuse from 60a to 80-100a.
You are required to notify the DNO of the installation of an EV charger within 28 days. Even though you might not be able to use due to the aforesaid fuse issue!
Second hand EV charges are a viable budget alternative.
If you run a big capacity EV, a Smart meter and an appropriate EV tariff is a good idea, but in itself opens up issues of complexity and availability. Octopus are not currently fitting them in my area, but made an exception when I made a fuss.
Combining EV' charging with your existing PV panels involves more expense than expected.

There are probably more, but I think what has irked me is that the Mini Franchise didn't question or alert us about any of these issues before selling us the car. I have found solutions for these issues, but some might really struggle with it. Bearing in mind that my wife only drives 5k miles per year, her fuel savings of around £250/y vs. running her oil burning Mini, are not going to see her breakeven anytime soon. But she is enjoying the temporary street cred of doing electric!

[9873210]

Domestic supply is limited to 10A, because I picked it as a good limit for a 13A socket (based upon industry standard).

The current drawn by a charger is up to the charger, not the consumer. They sell plug-in chargers that charge at over 2.5kW, drawing more than 10A. They have a kite mark so they must be safe. This bothered me so I searched a little deeper. I kind of wished I hadn't.

Looked at a 13A plug and compared it to the molex similar small connectors I use everyday for high currents. A 13A plug is so big and beefy, so overdesigned, surely it can carry 13A continuously. And kitemarks.

Silly me.

I encountered ET Wiring Regulation 722.55.101.0.201.1i. Some sockets are internally marked EV. There are two types of 13A sockets. They are mechanically compatible, externally visually identical, but have different burst into flame properties. Apparently standard 13A plugs and receptacles are, as the Texans say "All hat and no cattle".

Sigh. I suppose I was warned. These are the people that gleefully announced in the 1990s that they had discovered that selling appliances with plugs already installed would prevent thousands of injuries and tens of deaths. A "discovery" made over 100 years after the domestication of electricity and about 99 years after everybody else.

Thus begins another century of sheer awfulness for British domestic electric standards and distribution.

[scotview]

Bearing in mind that my wife only drives 5k miles per year, her fuel savings of around £250/y vs. running her oil burning Mini, are not going to see her breakeven anytime soon. But she is enjoying the temporary street cred of doing electric!

A much more significant issue (probably) will be that your wife will self limit her journey distance due to range/charger anxiety. Our ID3 has a 48kWh battery and for journeys greater than 90 miles, return, my wife will use my petrol Dacia Duster. Her EV is used exclusively for local journeys. I also would not allow her to take the EV on longer journeys on dark winter nights by herself for my peace of mind. A lot of Scottish charging points are in poorly lit, dodgy and quite remote areas and the chargers more often than not don't work or are vandalised.

[airbus330]

Bearing in mind that my wife only drives 5k miles per year, her fuel savings of around £250/y vs. running her oil burning Mini, are not going to see her breakeven anytime soon. But she is enjoying the temporary street cred of doing electric!

A much more significant issue (probably) will be that your wife will self limit her journey distance due to range/charger anxiety. Our ID3 has a 48kWh battery and for journeys greater than 90 miles, return, my wife will use my petrol Dacia Duster. Her EV is used exclusively for local journeys. I also would not allow her to take the EV on longer journeys on dark winter nights by herself for my peace of mind. A lot of Scottish charging points are in poorly lit, dodgy and quite remote areas and the chargers more often than not don't work or are vandalised.

all good points, but I did laugh out loud at the "would not allow"!!!!!!.
As Basil Fawlty said, "you'd have to sew them back on first"

[DrFfybes]

A much more significant issue (probably) will be that your wife will self limit her journey distance due to range/charger anxiety. Our ID3 has a 48kWh battery and for journeys greater than 90 miles, return, my wife will use my petrol Dacia Duster. Her EV is used exclusively for local journeys. I also would not allow her to take the EV on longer journeys on dark winter nights by herself for my peace of mind. A lot of Scottish charging points are in poorly lit, dodgy and quite remote areas and the chargers more often than not don't work or are vandalised.

all good points, but I did laugh out loud at the "would not allow"!!!!!!.
As Basil Fawlty said, "you'd have to sew them back on first"

Not sure I'd even attempt to tell MrsF which car she could or couldn't take -I trust her to be able to make her own decision.

[quelquod]

Looked at a 13A plug and compared it to the molex similar small connectors I use everyday for high currents. A 13A plug is so big and beefy, so overdesigned, surely it can carry 13A continuously. And kitemarks.

Silly me.

I encountered ET Wiring Regulation 722.55.101.0.201.1i. Some sockets are internally marked EV. There are two types of 13A sockets. They are mechanically compatible, externally visually identical, but have different burst into flame properties. Apparently standard 13A plugs and receptacles are, as the Texans say "All hat and no cattle".

You’d have to look hard to find an electrician who hasn’t had to replace a shed full of burned-out 13A plugs and sockets due to lengthy use at high amperages and poor connections. Tumble driers and heaters are common culprits but I daresay there’ll be a few cheapskate plug-in car chargers along soon.

[Midsmartin]

Look at ev charging tariffs.

Octopus' cheapest tariff is something like 7.5p/kWh for 6 hours to charge your car overnight. To do this, either your car or the 7kw wall charger must be compatible.

https://octopus.energy/smart/intelligent-octopus-go/

If that's of interest then you might want to get the charger they recommend.

Ours is not compatible, so we get only 4 hours each night at 9.5p /kWh. That's enough to run our car about 100 miles. Of course we can charge longer, but at a higher cost.

After a long journey it therefore takes two nights to get the car fully charged again, unless we choose to pay more per kWh and do it all at once, with a tap on the charger phone app to override the schedule that is set to limit charging to the cheap 00.30 to 04.30 window.

Public chargers cost ten times a much per kWh as these cheap overnight home rates. But we virtually never use one. I worked out that out of 10000 miles a year, all but 200 miles were charged at home, and 98% of that was cheap rate.

The biggest issue I foresee is forgetting to plug your car in to charge before an important journey. W have not done this yet!

A rule of thumb is that 1kwh takes you about 3.5 miles. Could be more or less, depending on the car, your driving style, speed, weather, etc.

[9873210]

Looked at a 13A plug and compared it to the molex similar small connectors I use everyday for high currents. A 13A plug is so big and beefy, so overdesigned, surely it can carry 13A continuously. And kitemarks.

Silly me.

I encountered ET Wiring Regulation 722.55.101.0.201.1i. Some sockets are internally marked EV. There are two types of 13A sockets. They are mechanically compatible, externally visually identical, but have different burst into flame properties. Apparently standard 13A plugs and receptacles are, as the Texans say "All hat and no cattle".

You’d have to look hard to find an electrician who hasn’t had to replace a shed full of burned-out 13A plugs and sockets due to lengthy use at high amperages and poor connections. Tumble driers and heaters are common culprits but I daresay there’ll be a few cheapskate plug-in car chargers along soon.

Which means this is not an EV problem and should not be addressed by regs for EV charging. It should be addressed by upgrading the specs for the standard plug/sockets so they are fit for purpose. Or stop calling it a 13A plug and require a physically different plug for all large loads.

[Urbandreamer]

You’d have to look hard to find an electrician who hasn’t had to replace a shed full of burned-out 13A plugs and sockets due to lengthy use at high amperages and poor connections. Tumble driers and heaters are common culprits but I daresay there’ll be a few cheapskate plug-in car chargers along soon.

Which means this is not an EV problem and should not be addressed by regs for EV charging. It should be addressed by upgrading the specs for the standard plug/sockets so they are fit for purpose. Or stop calling it a 13A plug and require a physically different plug for all large loads.

The REG'S are interesting. For example you could fit a "commando" socket. These are industrial sockets, often found upon caravan sites, capable of supplying either 16A or 32A from a plug! Though technically you NEED to fit a specific socket anyway AND label it!

Just one problem. It's against regulations to fit a "commando" socket to a domestic property!

Basically you need to argue that a child can't kill themselves by sticking cutlery in it. Oh and good luck arguing that a interlock requiring a plug to be plugged in works. The regulations are not worded that way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZC9_Xktkho

Ps I have seen such sockets fitted to houses to supply caravans! I also have "non-shutered" 5A lighting sockets in some rooms! The law is an ASS.