The Lemon Fool

I have on two occasions today, come across comments on the changes to the Highway Code in 2022 related to drivers having to wait for pedestrians who are waiting to cross when the driver is turning left or right at a junction.I was aware of this change, but I can't see anywhere, any information relating to what a driver should do if the pedestrian is waiting at a pedestrian controlled light. In other words, the new Highway Code (Rule H2) does not clarify if the rule applies, or not, at a pedestrian controlled light.
Does anyone know of a clarification of this situation?

Bminusrob wrote:I have on two occasions today, come across comments on the changes to the Highway Code in 2022 related to drivers having to wait for pedestrians who are waiting to cross when the driver is turning left or right at a junction.I was aware of this change, but I can't see anywhere, any information relating to what a driver should do if the pedestrian is waiting at a pedestrian controlled light. In other words, the new Highway Code (Rule H2) does not clarify if the rule applies, or not, at a pedestrian controlled light.

Does anyone know of a clarification of this situation?

If I have a green light then I am proceeding. Cross-traffic will have a red light and so must yield to me.

As for a car turning into a minor street then I have always yielded to a pedestrian crossing that minor street and I am not aware that has materially changed. I do not try and second guess what loitering pedestrians intend to do however. They should make eye contact with me or otherwise unambiguously signal their intent.

By the way, a lot of the Highway Code is advisory rather than statutory. So flouting the HC is not necessarily an offence, although it may count against you in an accident.

Bminusrob wrote:I have on two occasions today, come across comments on the changes to the Highway Code in 2022 related to drivers having to wait for pedestrians who are waiting to cross when the driver is turning left or right at a junction.I was aware of this change, but I can't see anywhere, any information relating to what a driver should do if the pedestrian is waiting at a pedestrian controlled light. In other words, the new Highway Code (Rule H2) does not clarify if the rule applies, or not, at a pedestrian controlled light.
Does anyone know of a clarification of this situation?

That would be covered in Rule 21 for pedestrians:

"At traffic lights. There may be special signals for pedestrians. You should only start to cross the road when the green figure shows. If you have started to cross the road and the green figure goes out, you should still have time to reach the other side, but do not delay. If no pedestrian signals have been provided, watch carefully and do not cross until the traffic lights are red and the traffic has stopped."

Scott.

IMHO it is a dangerous rule change. To get home I turn right off a main road into quite a narrow side street (which eventually opens out). There is a lot of pedestrian traffic along the main road pavement, all wishing to cross the side street I am turning into. Many of the pedestrians are secondary school kids who are not well behaved.
I see a break in the main road traffic in the opposite directioin, and begin my turning manouevre. While blocking the opposite carriageway, groups of pedestrians are congregating on the corners. If I give way and allow them to cross, I am blocking all the traffic in every direction. Raised blood pressure all around.

Nimrod103 wrote: If I give way and allow them to cross, I am blocking all the traffic in every direction. Raised blood pressure all around.

No, you are not blocking all traffic. Pedestrians are traffic too. Giving way to pedestrians is the opposite of blocking them.

9873210 wrote:

Nimrod103 wrote: If I give way and allow them to cross, I am blocking all the traffic in every direction. Raised blood pressure all around.

No, you are not blocking all traffic. Pedestrians are traffic too. Giving way to pedestrians is the opposite of blocking them.

They're the type of traffic that doesn't need to be granted licence to use the road

9873210 wrote:

Nimrod103 wrote: If I give way and allow them to cross, I am blocking all the traffic in every direction. Raised blood pressure all around.

No, you are not blocking all traffic. Pedestrians are traffic too. Giving way to pedestrians is the opposite of blocking them.

True but this main road is one of only a 5 routes into a large town, two of which are currently affected by 4 way traffic light controls. The road is a well known and frequently congested road, I believe proven to be the busiest single carriageway road in the county.
A typical example of gridlock Britain.

9873210 wrote:

Nimrod103 wrote: If I give way and allow them to cross, I am blocking all the traffic in every direction. Raised blood pressure all around.

No, you are not blocking all traffic. Pedestrians are traffic too. Giving way to pedestrians is the opposite of blocking them.

This is where theory, courtesy, and practice collide. It makes sense to make the rules protect the most vulnerable, but sometimes disctretion works better.

If there are a lot of cars turning into the sideroad, then allowing the pedestrians across makes sense.

However if there are few cars making the turn and very limited opportunities, then pedestrians holding back for 5 seconds and giving way to the vehicle makes sense, to keep everyone moving.

Unfortunately people very rarely think like that. The prime example is advanded cycle stoplines, a great idea as the cyclists are at the front where they can be seen. However if they then set off and slow the cars, fewer cars get through the lights than if the cyclists had their own side lane and stayed in sigle file. The cyclists don't gain from their actions, but motor vehicle lose. Compare this to the motorcyclist who filters to the front and does the same. Cars tend not to mind this, as the bike is off quicker than them and doesn't really hold them up. In practice it does slightly, but it is less noticable.

Paul

DrFfybes wrote:

9873210 wrote:No, you are not blocking all traffic. Pedestrians are traffic too. Giving way to pedestrians is the opposite of blocking them.

This is where theory, courtesy, and practice collide. It makes sense to make the rules protect the most vulnerable, but sometimes discretion works better.l

Yes, discretion (or judgement, I might call it) is always paramount. There are always situations where a rule should be broken to serve a higher purpose.

I am not sure I agree that pedestrians are traffic but, in any event, it can be hazardous to leave yourself stranded in the middle of a busy, fast-moving road out of excessive deference or politeness.

And as I noted above, much of the highway code is advisory rather than mandatory. So "use your judgement" is the rule that overrides every other rule.