Drakeford expresses suprise at 20 limit reaction

[DrFfybes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68562547

Mr Drakeford said he was surprised by the level of opposition and anger the new limit provoked.

Really? It just goes to show how out of touch politicians are with the general public, probably why they pay loads of marketing and opinion consultants to tell them the bleeding obvious.

Paul

[Lootman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68562547

Mr Drakeford said he was surprised by the level of opposition and anger the new limit provoked.

Really? It just goes to show how out of touch politicians are with the general public, probably why they pay loads of marketing and opinion consultants to tell them the bleeding obvious.

Paul

You would think that those consultants would tell him that the voters disapprove of the policy. But I guess instead they told him what he wanted to hear.

Drakeford looks like the uncle at a Christmas party who always gets a bit too drunk and says embarrassing things.

[Redmires]

I regularly travel on the Chepstow-Usk back road. After the change in the law, one of the villages (Llangwm) had a 20mph limit in one direction and 30mph in the other. This week, it's now 30mph in both directions. Personally, I think they are having a rethink due to the strength of feeling but do not want to be seen to lose face. Also, in our town we used to have a speed camera quite regularly in a 30mph limit area. Since the drop to 20mph, it has not been back. I think they are afraid to implement it fully as thousands of speeding tickets arriving on doorsteps won't do their election chances any good come the election.

[Alaric]

From the BBC Interview

Mr Drakeford added that he had focused on some areas that "inevitably make people feel uncomfortable, because you're asking them to change the way that they live their lives".

Perhaps that's a quality that should preclude people from being elected. Who gave him the right to force people to change the way they live their lives?

I recently had the misfortune to drive through Bath and other places in the same Council area. If there's a trunk route, what really is the justification for imposing 20mph limits? These aren't city centres, just roads passing through areas deemed residential.

[88V8]

Mr Drakeford added that he had focused on some areas that "inevitably make people feel uncomfortable, because you're asking them to change the way that they live their lives".

Perhaps that's a quality that should preclude people from being elected. Who gave him the right to force people to change the way they live their lives?
I recently had the misfortune to drive through Bath and other places in the same Council area. If there's a trunk route, what really is the justification for imposing 20mph limits? These aren't city centres, just roads passing through areas deemed residential.

And why do new 'housing estates' [brick breeding box blots on the landscape] have to be accompanied by speed humps pedestrian traffic lights and ugly railings on what were country roads?
Planners sure do know how to pee off people!!

V8

[DrFfybes]

From the BBC Interview

Mr Drakeford added that he had focused on some areas that "inevitably make people feel uncomfortable, because you're asking them to change the way that they live their lives".

Perhaps that's a quality that should preclude people from being elected. Who gave him the right to force people to change the way they live their lives?

The people that elected him?

[bungeejumper]

I recently had the misfortune to drive through Bath and other places in the same Council area. If there's a trunk route, what really is the justification for imposing 20mph limits? These aren't city centres, just roads passing through areas deemed residential.

In its defence, Bath does have some diabolically overworked roads near the centre. Because it's situated between seven steep hills, like Rome, its planners haven't had the usual option of building a bypass around the city. And the urban air quality on the east side is some of the worst in Britain. They're very twitchy about these things, you know.

Further out of town, there are two universities, 100-odd schools and four hospitals, all connected by urban rat-runs that carry far more traffic than they were ever designed for back in the 18th century. Reason enough for the occasional 20 limit section, I'd say. Yeah, I dislike driving in the city too, and I'm local, so I know all the short cuts! A proper mess of a system, with a convoluted one way system to make it all the more confusing.

But Wales? Apart from those parts of central Cardiff where the satnav can't get a signal , I can't think of many places where a 20 limit is going to achieve much more than p1ssing people off and slowing down their journeys. Unless it's to pick up some greenie cred points for Mr Drakeford, of course?

BJ

[Lootman]

From the BBC Interview: Perhaps that's a quality that should preclude people from being elected. Who gave him the right to force people to change the way they live their lives?

The people that elected him?

The problem with our system of "democracy" is that politicians only care about the voters once every 5 years. The rest of the time they ignore the voters and do whatever they want.

[Nimrod103]

The people that elected him?

The problem with our system of "democracy" is that politicians only care about the voters once every 5 years. The rest of the time they ignore the voters and do whatever they want.

This is why leadership is so important. Everything depends on Drakeford's own experiences and who he is listening to and whose arguments is he accepting. Drakeford has worked as a teacher (a bit), public sector and academia. He has never had to worry about doing business nor trading against competition, so for him time has no value. Deadlines don't matter. He has no interest in travelling fast. And who is he listening to - Lee Waters, another one who has never been anywhere near private business, is vehemently anti road building and motorized transport and is a supporter of cycling.

It's a lot like my local council which has been taken over by a LibDem pro-cycling lobby, and as a result they support 20mph zones and several restricted areas for traffic.

I would be interested to see the effects of the Welsh 20mph limits on tourism.

[didds]

In its defence, Bath does have some diabolically overworked roads near the centre. Because it's situated between seven steep hills, like Rome, its planners haven't had the usual option of building a bypass around the city. And the urban air quality on the east side is some of the worst in Britain. They're very twitchy about these things, you know.

Further out of town, there are two universities, 100-odd schools and four hospitals, all connected by urban rat-runs that carry far more traffic than they were ever designed for back in the 18th century. Reason enough for the occasional 20 limit section, I'd say. Yeah, I dislike driving in the city too, and I'm local, so I know all the short cuts! A proper mess of a system, with a convoluted one way system to make it all the more confusing.
BJ

Except maybe later in the evening and i presume earlier in the morning I defy anybody to even get close to 20mph driving in Bath!
It can take me only 20 minutes to drive the 15 miles from home to the A46/A4 interchange and longer than that to do the couple miles to downtown Bath from there. Frankly the idea that anyone would get fruity about a 20mph limit in Bath is a joke

[bungeejumper]

Right, a self-correction.

Bath does have some diabolically overworked roads near the centre. Because it's situated between seven steep hills, like Rome, its planners haven't had the usual option of building a bypass around the city. And the urban air quality on the east side is some of the worst in Britain. They're very twitchy about these things, you know.

Further research confirms that Bath's air quality used to be filthy, especially to the east along the London Road, which was always gridlocked. But following the introduction of the clean air zone in 2021 (and the banning of heavy lorries across the Cleveland Bridge), it's now rated as good. Whatever it was that the greenies did in Bath, it's obviously working.

Traffic is still very slow, of course. And as didds suggests, you can drive for miles without getting past third gear, or even second sometimes. To get a full score, all the greenies would need to do now is to build a relief bridge upstream that will send the through traffic from the M4 straight down to the southbound A36, and everybody's worries will be over, for ever. They ain't going to do that, though. Those wild, windswept marshy bits by the river bank are too scenic to spoil. And don't even mention the frogs and the newts. Decisions, decisions.

BJ

[didds]

I would be interested to see the effects of the Welsh 20mph limits on tourism.

well its been in place for some while now (ie not two weeks) so any impact would already be seen Id imagine.

And TBH if you aren't going to go to Wales because you can "only" drive at 20mph through villages is a bit of an odd criteria - IMO and YMMV and clearly does. But of course consumer choice is everything. One could go to delightful Slough with its amazing 30mph speed limit instead maybe.

Ah.
https://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/2 ... eed-limit/

I'll wager its made effectively stuff all difference aside from Darren from Barnsley who has had a hissy fit because he cant drive his Daewoo Matiz through Cardiff city centre at 21 mph. (which he probably hasn't been able to physically do for years anyway), and he wont be told that the limit is not every road in the entirety of Wales because that claim fuels his personal agenda.

[DrFfybes]

I would be interested to see the effects of the Welsh 20mph limits on tourism.

well its been in place for some while now (ie not two weeks) so any impact would already be seen Id imagine.

And TBH if you aren't going to go to Wales because you can "only" drive at 20mph through villages is a bit of an odd criteria

Despite living within 10 miles of Wales, I havn't been since the 20 limit came in. MrsF has been once, to see her sister.

The delay doesn't put me off, it is irritating to drive in second but if they want me to burn 30% more fuel and warm the planet, that's no big deal, I can afford it, but for me it was the uncertainty of what the limit was. Her family said it was chaos, some people doing 20 literally everywhere, even in limits signed as 40. tailgating, dangerous overtakes. MrsF was overtaken by a lorry going past an industrial estate at 20 as the signs said 30, but she couldn't tell if it was a real 30 or an old 30 that was now a 20, and encountered signs saying different things depending which direction you were going down the road.

The actual idea of making every high street 20 isn't something I'm against, if you define a high street correctly, but the fact that it was done in a half-assed piecemeal 'leave it to the local council to decide' badly signed and disorganised manner really was shocking.

Presumably by now if it says '30' then it is 30. No doubt I'll find out one way or the other next time I visit.

Paul

[didds]

If there's no sign saying "20" it ain't 20. Obviously.

[didds]

but the fact that it was done in a half-assed piecemeal 'leave it to the local council to decide' badly signed and disorganised manner really was shocking.
Paul

Welcome to the Uk in the 2000s. Its not just 20mph limits.

- substantial meals
- numbers to gatherings
- bubbles
- potholes
- council taxes/reduction of central government funding
- HS2
- NHS pay increases - or not

I'm sure you can think of plenty more examples of non joined up thinking and disastrous government/council decision making and implementation.

[DrFfybes]

If there's no sign saying "20" it ain't 20. Obviously.

Welsh signs for the English...

ARAF = SLOW
ILDWICH = GIVE WAY
STOP = STOP
30 = 20
YSGOL = SCHOOL

etc.

[Nimrod103]

I am contemplating driving holidays into mid and north Wales. I haven't been since my student days. but when I look at the road maps and see all those A and B roads running through straggling towns and villages, I think to myself, hold on, how long is it going to take me to drive from A to B and back? Especially when I will have driven all the way from SE England.

[Alaric]

. I haven't been since my student days. but when I look at the road maps and see all those A and B roads running through straggling towns and villages, I think to myself, hold on, how long is it going to take me to drive from A to B and back?.

A more sensible implementation would have been to exempt A and B roads from the blanket 20 mph limit unless there was a compelling reason. Rather than the other way round as implemented in Wales which appears to require local exceptions to be made on a case by case basis. Politicians like to deny that they are engaged in a war on motorists. Their actions suggest a special military operation at the very least.

[didds]

talking of student days... I used to drive from Norf Kent to Aberystwyth to and from university via the A44. I've just looked on "datamapwales" to pick out the 20 mph zones between Aber and Old Radnor on the English border along the A44. It seems once you've left the immediate environs of Aber, there are four such zones - at the junction of the A4159 (0.1mile), Ponterwyd (0.6 miles), on the edge of Rhayader (0.1 mile), and in the vicinity of the crossroads with the A483 at Y-Groes/Crossgates (0.6 miles)

Total 20mph zone 1.4 miles. At 30mph (assuming a constant 30 could be made of course) that would have taken 2.8 minutes. At 20mph (assuming a constant 20 could be made of course) that would have taken 4.2 minutes. A whole extra one minute twenty-four seconds on a 270 mile journey from Kent to Aber that used to take about 7 hours (just pre M25 days though there were sections open).

less than 90 seconds.

Of course others' student days may not have taken them along the A44, but far more convoluted journeys

[Alaric]

but for me it was the uncertainty of what the limit was.

There's an extremely long standing convention that in a built up area with street lights, the speed limit is 30 mph without the need for speed limit repeaters on poles or lamp posts. Where the speed limit is something else in a built up area whether 20 mph, 40 mph or even 50 mph, there would be repeater signs on poles or lamp posts sayimg what the limit was. Did Drakeford introduce chaos, perticularly on roads that wander in and out of England by imposing his own rule? So that rather than put up 20 mph repeater signs as would have to be done by an English council, he simply deemed 30 mph to be 20 mph in built up areas with lamp posts.