These effing ebikes

[Tedx]

There's no getting away from the fact that Ebikes can be great - for a variety of reasons.

....but there are loads of videos on youtube and the like showing you how to power up your existing ebike or by a Chinese kit from ebay with a fantastic amount of power. I've seen pushbikes do over 50mph on some videos.

The problem is that, certainly in the latter case, the pushbikes are not designed to have that kind of power. The brakes are not up to it, the frame isn't strong enough and the running gear is for a 1 humanpower bicycle.

....but the attractions are there for kids with no licence, no insurance, no MOT and only lightweight protective gear to fly about the place at high speed. And I've seen you tube videos where the Dad actually does the 'upgrade' work for them. I can see the attraction - me and my mates used to have a 'field' scrambler type motorbike that we used to race about on in a field next to our houses. Much to the ire of the farmer. Generally the noise of the bike attracted the law or the farmer, but ebikes are near silent. Kids fly up alleyways to escape from plod endangering anyone who's in the way.

Last night in my area demonstrated why these things need to be clamped down on.

Two teens have died in a four-car crash on the A941 between Elgin and Lossiemouth.

The e-bike passengers, aged 16 and 17, were pronounced dead at the scene of the collision at the junction with the B9135 at around 8pm last night.

The bike driver, aged 14, was taken to Dr Gray’s Hospital in Elgin with serious injuries.

One of the car drivers, aged 54, is in critical but stable condition in Dr Gray’s.

The crash involved a Sur-ron e-bike, a blue Vauxhall Mokka, a red Renault Clio, a black Vauxhall Corsa and a white VW Golf.

The victims were passengers on the e-bike, which was being driven by the 14-year-old who remains in hospital.

Horrendous.


https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... ssiemouth/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c724q55eeg9o

[y0rkiebar]

So three people on one "e-bike"*. Idiots.


* more e-motorbike from looking at the website. https://sur-ron.co.uk/

[the0ni0nking]

Just googling the bike type mentioned and the google images that come up make it much more like a scrambler type motorbike than a bicycle.

Is the Sur Ron e-bike legal in the UK?

Yes there is a road legal version of the Surron LBX, complete with number plate, lights, wing mirrors, speedo etc. It can be ridden with just a moped licence by anyone over 16 on the road, restricted to 30 mph on road and can be de restricted to 45 mph for off road

Whereas this bike was been driven by a 14 year old and had 2 passengers on it as well. I accept that doing stupid things is part and parcel of growing up but I'd put this in a different ball park of stupidity on the part of the individuals involved and potentially their parents for allowing such a vehicle to be procured by someone likely too immature to appreciate the power of such vehicles (hence the restrictions on age when driving them on a road!)

[daveh]

They are not e-bikes (EAPCs) they are illegal electric mopeds or motorbikes that have not been type approved and are being ridden without the required insurance and possibly licence. They need to be confiscated and the riders prosecuted.

A legal EAPC rider

[monabri]

There are a few adults riding quite powerful e-bikes around where I live. They are certainly above the legal restrictions regarding power output. Yesterday, one shot down a bus lane despite the no entry signs and powered up a steep hill without an apparent loss in speed (and it is a steep hill !)

Out walking one night a few weeks ago, I saw one riding at night on a busy road with no lights. A few minutes later, whilst walking on the pavement on the way home, we were nearly knocked over by yet another e-bike. It was moving so fast on the pavement with the rider dressed in black and no lights.

They are dangerous and there will be more accidents.

[Tedx]

Ok, I didn't Google the type of ebike, but my point still stands. Kids are buying these things, parents are turning a blind eye (or actively encouraging it) and I'm sure there are many more accidents/near misses that are probably covered in local press rather than national.

One of my neighbours has a 12 year old kid and he has a bettery powered scooter. The thing flies. As I understand it, these are illegal too (ones provided by a licenced operator in a city are allowed, but they have to conform to strict regulations. My other neighbour (an adult) gave up his 4 x 4 for an ebike. It flies too and Ive never seen him pedal it (so basically throttle controlled - again illegal).

So 2 in my street (that I know of) probably means there are 100's of thousands of the things in the UK.

[Mike4]

In my car I followed a bicycle with a youth on it for about a mile and a half a few months back.

He wasn't pedalling at all and my car speedo was reading exactly 50mph with me keeping pace with him although some way back in case he fell off.

I got a fairly good look at the bike and it looked for all the world like an ordinary, unmodified standard push-bike.

[bungeejumper]

Ok, I didn't Google the type of ebike, but my point still stands. Kids are buying these things, parents are turning a blind eye (or actively encouraging it) and I'm sure there are many more accidents/near misses that are probably covered in local press rather than national.

Not sure what can be done to stop kids being kids, but I don't think we're doing enough yet. ISTR that the kid who got killed last year in Wales, along with his mate, had been given the bike (a Sur-Ron) by his parents as an early 16th birthday present . Sheesh. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65714633. Fines for the dealers and licence points for the parents might make a difference?

One of my neighbours has a 12 year old kid and he has a bettery powered scooter. The thing flies. As I understand it, these are illegal too (ones provided by a licenced operator in a city are allowed, but they have to conform to strict regulations.

I nearly reduced their number by one a few weeks ago. Kid came straight off the pavement and right across my path on a main road in the town. (Fortunately for him, I was doing 20 mph.) Didn't seem to have any thoughts about safety in his head - as you don't when you're ten.

BJ

[the0ni0nking]

Where I am in Spain, there has been a proliferation (over the last few years) of e-scooters

https://hopp.bike/
https://behoppy.eu/
https://vamozscooter.com/

Those are just the "pay as you ride" ones but there are obviously a raft more owned by individuals personally. I have 2 of those 3 apps on my phone.

The law was tightened up in Spain at the start of 2024 but one of things that none of these scooter companies do is provide helmets. AS I regularly use them (and having spoken to the Police about it), I ended up purchasing a helmet similar to these which I can take on in addition to my laptop bag on flights to and from Spain.

https://www.closca.com/en-gb/collection ... le-helmets

This means I can then not worry about getting stopped as long as its during the day (I think at night there might be requirements around reflective clothing but that might depend on the municipality).

The scooters above are all restricted to 25km/h, have lights/reflectors and front/back breaks and a bell. Some of the newer versions also have indicator switches on the handlebars although this is by no means the case on all.

Back in the UK, I too saw a similar bike to the one above cut right across and up over a footpath all for the sake of saving about 100 yards of staying on the road - at around dusk - with no lights on and no helmet on the driver.

The sympathy I have is with those who should accidentally come into contact with them - if you're in a car driving legally etc and hit something illegal/uninsured/unlit etc etc potentially seriously injuring/killing them then that is something you will likely never be able to forget even if it is 100% not your fault.

[Gerry557]

This is a sad story but it's not clear what was the cause of the accident. It does look like the bike riders were probably illegal. Was it a poor car driver that was the cause albit unlikely.

We need to clamp down on all illegal driving. Kids in cars, youths on motorbikes etc.

At first I thought it was more of a pedal cycle with an electrical motor. Yes I've seen some of these modified to exceed limits.

In America, those supplying the bike to the kid would be done as an accessory.

[88V8]

Out walking one night a few weeks ago, I saw one riding at night on a busy road with no lights. A few minutes later, whilst walking on the pavement on the way home, we were nearly knocked over by yet another e-bike. It was moving so fast on the pavement with the rider dressed in black and no lights.

Not so long ago the self-entitled self-sanctifying cycling lobby were pushing for absolute liability on any driver who hit a cyclist. It's not only e-bikers who think it's OK to ride at night in black clothing with no lights.

V8

[swill453]

Out walking one night a few weeks ago, I saw one riding at night on a busy road with no lights. A few minutes later, whilst walking on the pavement on the way home, we were nearly knocked over by yet another e-bike. It was moving so fast on the pavement with the rider dressed in black and no lights.

Not so long ago the self-entitled self-sanctifying cycling lobby were pushing for absolute liability on any driver who hit a cyclist. It's not only e-bikers who think it's OK to ride at night in black clothing with no lights.

I wondered how long it would take for this to be twisted into an anti cycling rant.

Scott.

[servodude]

Not so long ago the self-entitled self-sanctifying cycling lobby were pushing for absolute liability on any driver who hit a cyclist. It's not only e-bikers who think it's OK to ride at night in black clothing with no lights.

I wondered how long it would take for this to be twisted into an anti cycling rant.

Scott.

On a thread that conflated an electric motor scrambler with an e-bike conversion!? Crikey.

I'd argue quite strongly that a twat on a bike in the dark in dark clothing without lights isn't really a "cyclist" - just a waste of a bicycle

[Lanark]

The regulation of e-bikes in the UK is much stricter than many other countries, but they don't seem to be enforcing it very much. Ebay is full of grey imports that are not legal to ride.

Similarly e-scooters have only been legalised for rental not purchase, not sure why that makes them safer but perhaps makes it easier to withdraw them from the market when problems are found. I do wonder if the real reason is that the rental agreement is a nice little money earner for local councils.

[bungeejumper]

Similarly e-scooters have only been legalised for rental not purchase, not sure why that makes them safer but perhaps makes it easier to withdraw them from the market when problems are found. I do wonder if the real reason is that the rental agreement is a nice little money earner for local councils.

Surely it's more likely that Ebay is full of substandard machines that would never pass a safety test, and which would therefore be uninsurable?

Bad brakes, cheap tyres, indifferent handling on corners, small and insecure platforms, no lights. And, of course, cheapo batteries and chargers that can set fire to your house in the middle of the night. The statistics for deaths from e-bike and e-scooter fires are pretty chilling. Especially considering that the victims won't necessarily be the riders, but their families, their neighbours and the people in the flat above.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/m ... bike-fires . The models that have been approved for public use in urban trials will be better than that. But inevitably, more expensive.

BJ

[UncleEbenezer]

Before they became the small motorbikes we know today, "mopeds" were of course motor-assisted pedal cycles. Before the rules changed (late 70s?) some of those had been jazzed up to do ridiculous speeds on a 50cc two-stroke engine.

As soon as "e-bikes" managed to create a new legal category exempt from the laws that govern mopeds (and other motor vehicles), they were inevitably going to follow a similar path. I see quite a few now with big thick motorbike-sized tyres, that would be a nightmare to try and pedal anywhere.

None of which excuses the kind of anti-bike drivel that's already shown itself in one or two posts here.

[Tedx]

There were some outragous claims from FS1E owners about their top speeds too. A mate of mine claimed 70mph 'on the speedo' (aye, right)

He had basically taken a tuning series from Mortorcycle Mechanics where it says 'carefully remove 1mm from the top of the exhaust port' and multiplied the measurements, many times. It made the thing unridable because everytime you changed gear it dropped out of the powerband - unless you kept the throttle wide open. See that 800rpm though...it was way beyond the normal rev range and it was glorious. I think he had to set up a standing order to a piston company though.

.....and it did look silly with pedals.

But you still had to have a provisional licence, 3rd party insurance, an MOT, Tax and a crash helmet. And plod took great interest in making sure all was in order on a regular basis (particularly exhaust modifications). And very often your parents did too (with mine it was 'damn dangerous things - if you want one, then youre going to do it right').

In the OP case it turns out it was misreported as ebike when it was actually an electric motorcycle, but my point still stands. People are just ignoring the law with 'electric powered 2 wheelers' (to cover all bases).

I had a thought last night. Given the price of them, it's likely that the electric bike was a gift. The 14 year old was the driving. I hope whoever bought him that thing is reflecting on his choices.

[bungeejumper]

Before they became the small motorbikes we know today, "mopeds" were of course motor-assisted pedal cycles. Before the rules changed (late 70s?) some of those had been jazzed up to do ridiculous speeds on a 50cc two-stroke engine.

Ah yes, the old Fantic mopeds. Thanks for the memory. https://www.google.com/search?q=fantic+moped.

Horrible smoky two strokes which made a piercing racket, but all the Brummie kids I taught seemed to want one. 60 mph with a following wind, before the speed restrictions came in. You could ride them in Britain at age 16, which made British kids envious of their French contemporaries, who only needed to be 14. And as far as I know, that's still the legal age over there now?

No great surprise, then, that the Fantic brand has been resuscitated as an electric bike. Up to 65 kph, officially, and doubtless much more if you hack the electronics.

BJ

[UncleEbenezer]

I had a thought last night. Given the price of them, it's likely that the electric bike was a gift. The 14 year old was the driving. I hope whoever bought him that thing is reflecting on his choices.

They'll likely be in denial.

Quite a few years back, there was a case of a kid, also (from memory) 14, who got killed on a bicycle. Numerous danger markers included riding on the pavement, defective brakes, and no lights. Left the pavement onto the road, at an angle totally unexpected by the oncoming driver and got hit.

Did the kid's mum blame herself for no lights, no brakes, no road sense or (presumably) training? Did she, heck! Instead she was taken up as a cause célèbre by a campaign for helmet compulsion. It was the lack of helmet, not any of those major real dangers! Guilt displacement for her, and gave the campaign (which has repeatedly been called out for its campaigning lies by the ASA) a face who, as grieving mother, couldn't be challenged.

[Tedx]

Nah, you want an FS1E ('fizzy '')

https://granfreesm.space/product_details/7268529.html