Lloyds bank

[GoSeigen]

ready to bale out.

'cos the grass is greener on the other side?

GS

[Socrates]

Well done, it's all in the timing. I sold at about a 7% loss.

RVF

I've been underwater with Lloyds since around 2009, absolute stubbornness, never ending rounds of averaging down, and an unhealthy obsession to break even and not be beaten, keep me invested in what has got to be the most frustrating share anyone has ever had the misfortune of holding outside of going bust, sometimes I find myself wishing it had, the pain would have been immense but much less short lived, it's akin to having tooth ache for the last 12 years.

I'll break even at 60.5p, I'm throwing a party on that day, right after I sell the lot.

Vince

Looking back at this post today, I posted this, then lost my user details so re-registered with a new user name.

Well, today, and after a few buys over the previous couple of years to get my average cost per share to just above 58p, I broke even. its been a long 15 years hanging on when all seemed lost

I've had a few decent dividend payments in between the wilderness years to ease the pain, and it was a certainty in my mind that I would sell out of Lloyds as soon as the investment broke even, but here we are with a minute profit, and I don't know what to do.

Ironic really, the day we get a new Labour government and Lloyds comes good for me personally, it was Labour and Brown that forced the bank into buying HBOS and the start of 15 years of pain, but all is forgotten on this break even day.

The issue now is, I'm hesitant to sell, replacing the income, which is growing, isn't straightforward, the shares in issue are falling, and Lloyds are actually looking like a decent investment, so, I'll hang on in the hope that interest rates fall enough to give the economy a much needed lift, mortgage take up may increase on the back of lower interest rates, a rising share price with growing income is desirable in any investment if like me, I need income to supplement pensions.

All income is protected from tax in an ISA, I'll sit on my hands and see what the first few months of a Labour government bring, hopefully, I'll return in another 15 years still wondering what to do with the most annoying investment I've ever owned.

Vince/Socrates

[Padders72]

I've been underwater with Lloyds since around 2009, absolute stubbornness, never ending rounds of averaging down, and an unhealthy obsession to break even and not be beaten, keep me invested in what has got to be the most frustrating share anyone has ever had the misfortune of holding outside of going bust, sometimes I find myself wishing it had, the pain would have been immense but much less short lived, it's akin to having tooth ache for the last 12 years.

I'll break even at 60.5p, I'm throwing a party on that day, right after I sell the lot.

Vince

Looking back at this post today, I posted this, then lost my user details so re-registered with a new user name.

Well, today, and after a few buys over the previous couple of years to get my average cost per share to just above 58p, I broke even. its been a long 15 years hanging on when all seemed lost

I've had a few decent dividend payments in between the wilderness years to ease the pain, and it was a certainty in my mind that I would sell out of Lloyds as soon as the investment broke even, but here we are with a minute profit, and I don't know what to do.

Ironic really, the day we get a new Labour government and Lloyds comes good for me personally, it was Labour and Brown that forced the bank into buying HBOS and the start of 15 years of pain, but all is forgotten on this break even day.

The issue now is, I'm hesitant to sell, replacing the income, which is growing, isn't straightforward, the shares in issue are falling, and Lloyds are actually looking like a decent investment, so, I'll hang on in the hope that interest rates fall enough to give the economy a much needed lift, mortgage take up may increase on the back of lower interest rates, a rising share price with growing income is desirable in any investment if like me, I need income to supplement pensions.

All income is protected from tax in an ISA, I'll sit on my hands and see what the first few months of a Labour government bring, hopefully, I'll return in another 15 years still wondering what to do with the most annoying investment I've ever owned.

Vince/Socrates

For now! Lets hope they don't decide to monkey around with ISAs, imposing a lifetime cap or similar for instance. That would be a big blow for me if they did as I use mine as a pseudo pension pot.

[brightncheerful]

"it was Labour and Brown that forced the bank into buying HBOS"

was it/did they? I thought Lloyds bought because they'd' given their word.

I think I'm correct is saying that was why Lloyds bought Hill Samuel.

[GoSeigen]

I've had a few decent dividend payments in between the wilderness years to ease the pain, and it was a certainty in my mind that I would sell out of Lloyds as soon as the investment broke even, but here we are with a minute profit, and I don't know what to do.

Double up your holding.

I am not joking. Opinion formed from bitter experience.


GS

[dealtn]

Well, today, and after a few buys over the previous couple of years to get my average cost per share to just above 58p, I broke even. its been a long 15 years hanging on when all seemed lost

I've had a few decent dividend payments in between the wilderness years to ease the pain, and it was a certainty in my mind that I would sell out of Lloyds as soon as the investment broke even, but here we are with a minute profit, and I don't know what to do.

Price anchoring is ridiculous behaviour. Completely illogical since the day you bought to the day when you "broke even". The price you paid is irrelevant to the decision to why you remain an investor (or not). It is only about the future, not the past (with the slight exception around taxation).

[Lootman]

I've had a few decent dividend payments in between the wilderness years to ease the pain, and it was a certainty in my mind that I would sell out of Lloyds as soon as the investment broke even, but here we are with a minute profit, and I don't know what to do.

Double up your holding.

I am not joking. Opinion formed from bitter experience.

GS

I sometimes think that you are the most reliable contrarian indicator here, and so worth reading for that reason alone.

I have avoided UK banks for over 15 years and continue to. There is quite simply no reason to invest in them.

[GoSeigen]

Double up your holding.

I am not joking. Opinion formed from bitter experience.

GS

I sometimes think that you are the most reliable contrarian indicator here, and so worth reading for that reason alone.

I have avoided UK banks for over 15 years and continue to. There is quite simply no reason to invest in them.

That is evidence Lootman's own poor management of his investments, it is nothing to do with my statement above or my view on the outlook of banks.

Lootman's poor timing investing in banks and the result can be contrasted with the performance of our portfolio, and I use my daughter's ISA as an example since Lootman himself called my allocation of her assets "criminal". These are the top ten positions in her ISA by size and performance of each:

Ticker    Description                                     Share of     Gain since
                                                          portfolio    purchase  
MBSR      Newcastle Building Soc 8% PIBS of GBP1000             10%          315%
BIRG      Bank of Ireland Group Ord Shs EUR 1                    9%           96%*
CB5       LYXOR STOXX EUROPE 600 BANKS UCITS ETF ACC             9%           98%
BARC      Barclays PLC Ordinary 25p                              7%           36%
COST      Costain Group Ordinary Shares of GBP 1P Each           7%           35%
LLOY      Lloyds Banking Group Plc Ord Shs 10p                   7%            0%**
IJPN      iShares Plc MSCI Japan UCITS ETF (DIST)                6%           74%
WBS       West Bromwich Building Society 6.15% PIB               6%          152%
FXC       iShares Plc China Large Cap UCITS ETF                  5%           -5%
MKS       Marks and Spencer Ordinary Shares Of 1p Each           5%          117%

[
(*) Part of BIRG holding was bed-and-ISAed last year, actual gain is around 240%
(**) Part of LLOY holding was bed-and-ISAed last year, actual result small loss
]
None of the above include dividends.

So Lootman, if you wish to use my statements as a contrarian indicator and continue losing money [EDIT or missing huge gains], BE MY GUEST!




GS

[Lootman]

I sometimes think that you are the most reliable contrarian indicator here, and so worth reading for that reason alone.

I have avoided UK banks for over 15 years and continue to. There is quite simply no reason to invest in them.

That is evidence Lootman's own poor management of his investments, it is nothing to do with my statement above or my view on the outlook of banks.

Lootman's poor timing investing in banks and the result can be contrasted with the performance of our portfolio, and I use my daughter's ISA as an example since Lootman himself called my allocation of her assets "criminal". So Lootman, if you wish to use my statements as a contrarian indicator and continue losing money, BE MY GUEST!

For the record Lootman is at least honest: 16 years ago my call for banks was to short their shares and buy the bonds. Lootman did the opposite and bought the ords and complains about poor results. I am ROFL.

You don't know what I did 16 years ago but it certainly was not to load up on broken UK banks. Not sure why you think lying and making stuff up helps your cause.

All I know is that according to your own posts you have made a series of bad bets including UK banks, but also UK shares in general. And, probably most spectacularly, shorting US shares! And yet you list only your highly-selective "greatest hits".

And when you did publish your overall returns, insofar as we can believe you, I had beaten them by a few hundred basis points annually and consistently over 15 years. And with much less risk.

Nor has your perverse love of bonds done you any favours in the last couple of years, which was utterly predictable. Your biggest problem is that you appear to only know one area - financials, and so you over-invest in that whilst missing out on the huge gains available elsewhere. You are very much like Pyad in that respect - you exhibit blinkered thinking and an inflated sense of your ability - both harmful to wealth.

But as I said, you do have the virtue of being consistently off the boil, and that is paradoxically useful to other investors here.

[GoSeigen]

...

Wait until the user has finished editing before going off on one dude!

GS
P.S. If you're using me as a contrarian indicator for your investment as you claim it's pretty damn obvious how you are investing!

[csearle]

Moderator Message:
Team, can we try and make this discussion less personal. I suggest self-moderating, in some way, all sentences containing the pronoun you. Thanks. - Chris

[bruncher]

I have built up a fairly large holding of UK bank ordinary shares (LLOY, BARC & NWG) in recent years, as well as holding prefs such as NWBD. That has gone well enough, but the one thing that I don't think it is, is a nice safe long term investment. I'm always scanning the horizon and ready to bale out.

Was last week the time to bale?

Banks warn UK Treasury of risk of sector turmoil after car finance ruling

Lenders have held urgent talks with the UK Treasury to warn of potential turmoil in the consumer credit sector and call for the financial watchdog to allow more time to deal with customer complaints after a landmark court ruling against car finance commissions.

Lawyers said the judgment was an overwhelming defeat for the industry and could leave other areas of finance exposed to legal challenges. It prompted analysts to raise their forecasts of the likely size of compensation faced by car finance companies, which they already estimated could cost the sector as much as £16bn.

https://www.ft.com/content/cba818b5-1e2 ... 8103881c0f

Black Horse is apparently the UK's laargest car finance business.

[bruncher]

Car deliveries halted amid fears motor finance scandal is ‘bigger than PPI’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... e-scandal/

[Padders72]

Gotta love Lloyd’s. Yet again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory though to be fair this time they have been shafted by a poor ruling. Someone obv thought continuing back door quantitative easing a la PPI via motor loans was a good idea. I wonder if there are strong grounds for appeal here based on the fact any bad faith and failure of duty of care was on the part of the dealers rather than the bank.

British banks are indeed cursed it seems.

[yyuryyub]

I'm amused to see a reference to my " I'm always scanning the horizon and ready to bail out." comment from some months ago.

As it happens, I started selling LLOY on 2nd Sept and then sold a stack more last week, though it's still a moderate sized holding. My first reason was a feeling that, even if the banks do really well in the next few years, the government will find some devious way to slap a windfall tax on them. The prospect of car finance turning into PPI disaster Mk2 was the reason for a further sell-down.

We will be living with a government that will want to take a fat slice from any business or individual that does well. In the case of banks (like Oil & Gas companies), this is politically easy compared with say Industrials. So I'm down to just being about equal-weight for the banking sector.