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Vigil - BBC1

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swill453
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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#444919

Postby swill453 » September 24th, 2021, 8:35 am

pje16 wrote:
moorfield wrote:There's plenty of scope for smart writers to solve the murders but keep the sub down there for a little longer, and plenty more back stories to be developed ...

Oh NO I do hope not, when will they learn :roll:
why is it, that with any good programme they want to milk it to death
Best examples of messing it up

Is this just a British thing? US series seem to be able to retain quality for longer. e.g. 60 episodes of The Wire, 80+ of the Sopranos etc.

Scott.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#444941

Postby redsturgeon » September 24th, 2021, 9:17 am

pje16 wrote:
moorfield wrote:There's plenty of scope for smart writers to solve the murders but keep the sub down there for a little longer, and plenty more back stories to be developed ...

Oh NO I do hope not, when will they learn :roll:
why is it, that with any good programme they want to milk it to death
Best examples of messing it up
Killing Eve - series 1 - Brilliant, Series 2 - weird, Series 3 - didn'lt bother to watch
Line of Duty - generally very good but they end a major disappointment with thhe unlikey villain !
Best Examples - Fawlty Towers where they made 12 episodes and DID NOT want to ruin with more amd more weaker episodes

And The Office 12 episodes and a Xmas special.

John

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#444979

Postby Hallucigenia » September 24th, 2021, 10:55 am

swill453 wrote:Is this just a British thing? US series seem to be able to retain quality for longer. e.g. 60 episodes of The Wire, 80+ of the Sopranos etc.


I give you 52 episodes of Downton Abbey.... Not my thing, but based on eg IMDB ratings it seems to be held in similar regard. And Dr Who...

And for every Sopranos you get the shows that go on too long - Lost being a classic example of a show that should have called it a day long before it did.

Thing to remember is that :

a) we only see a fraction of US TV, and we tend not to see the really bad stuff (Problem Solverz and Paris Hilton's My New BFF anyone?) so we think it's all like the Wire, we get a distorted view of the average quality of US television.

b) The US just makes so much television, twenty? Wires are the equivalent of one Downton Abbey.

c) The US networks are pretty strict about commissioning blocks of 13/26/52 shows to fit into their schedules, which means that writers can aim for "bigger" story arcs which can sustain longer runs - the Wire being a great example. OTOH, it can often feel like writers end up "padding" the shows just to hit 13 episodes, whereas British writers might take the same amount of story and squeeze it into 6-8 episodes.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#444991

Postby Arborbridge » September 24th, 2021, 11:14 am

Plus 144 Buffy's and 178(?) Star Trek Next Gen. But these were series with the possibility of every changing landscapes and casts. Not much future in sub stories, though some in "paranoia" about the millitary or MI5 I suppose. They could hardly have a never ending series of series called "Vigil".

But, on the general point of script writers, I'm amazed at how clever they can be in turning on a sixpence, or leaving deliberate lose ends to exploit later. The team on the Archers are masters at doing this.

Arb.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#444997

Postby XFool » September 24th, 2021, 11:32 am

swill453 wrote:Is this just a British thing? US series seem to be able to retain quality for longer. e.g. 60 episodes of The Wire, 80+ of the Sopranos etc.

My impression of this from the past is that US series are better at maintaining long term stability. Changes seem to come from natural turnover of actors etc. In the past, long UK series always seemed to get a 'makeover' with every new series, leading them to change so much they eventually became something entirely different from where they started and you could simply lose interest in them.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445009

Postby monabri » September 24th, 2021, 12:26 pm

The UK has a decent track record of making multi-series programmes. Some of them made it to the US and some were adopted and adopted ( with varying degrees of success).

Red Dwarf : 12 series, 72 episodes.
Blake's 7 : 4 series 52 episodes.
Peaky Blinders: 5 series, 30 episodes.
Sherlock ( Cumberbatch et al)
Black Mirror 5 series, 22 episodes.
Merlin 5 series, 65 episodes.
The IT Crowd
Call the midwife
The inbetweeners.
The Crown
Downton Abbey
Ripper Street
The Royale Family
Shameless
MI-5 ( 10 series)
Ab-Fab

Skins ( 7 series, 61 episodes)
Luther
Line of Duty (and the little donkey)..mentioned previously.
All Creatures Great and Small
Top Boy ( 3 series, 18 episodes)
Strike (4 series, 11 episodes)
Silent Witness ( 24 series, 212 episodes)
Grantchester
The Night Manager
Shetland
Midsomer
Morse
Endeavour
Poldark (Aiden Turner)
Vera
Doctor Foster
Misfits
Happy Valley
Torchwood
Life on Mars
Ashes to ashes
Derry Girls
Doc Martin
Auf Wiedersehen Pet
The Office
Being Human
Peep Show
Still Game
Marcella
Bancroft
Prime Suspect
New Tricks
Waking the Dead
Wycliffe
Spooks
Wire in the Blood
Unforgotten
Our Girl
McMafia
Antiques Roadshow
Shows such as "Strictly", "GBBO". Not to mention the "soaps".


( probably a lot more as well....https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... programmes )

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445011

Postby Hallucigenia » September 24th, 2021, 12:40 pm

monabri wrote:The UK has a decent track record of making multi-series programmes.

Sherlock ( Cumberbatch et al)
The Night Manager


To pick out just two of the ones you mention, Night Manager was a single series of 6 episodes, and Sherlock had "series" of only 3-4 episodes.

One other thing to remember when comparing US vs UK is that the BBC doesn't have adverts, so an hour on the BBC is the equivalent of 40-45 minutes of actual content on commercial channels.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445137

Postby Redmires » September 24th, 2021, 8:05 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:
monabri wrote:The UK has a decent track record of making multi-series programmes.

Sherlock ( Cumberbatch et al)
The Night Manager


One other thing to remember when comparing US vs UK is that the BBC doesn't have adverts, so an hour on the BBC is the equivalent of 40-45 minutes of actual content on commercial channels.


I'd say that 1 hour programmes on commercial TV are now down to about 30 - 35 minutes if you take into account the 'what you saw previously'.... 'coming up later' .... ' after the break' .... 'before the break' .... 'coming up next week' ......

I record everything on commercial TV these days and judicious use of the FF button enhances the viewing experience.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445185

Postby XFool » September 25th, 2021, 8:52 am

‘Vigil portrayed us as malevolent robots’ – submariners torpedo the BBC’s nautical hit

The Guardian

Fifteen minutes to launch a nuke? Rampant drugs and hairspray? No beer in the torpedo hatches? As the tense thriller concludes, navy experts scuttle its boatload of mistakes

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445189

Postby AWOL » September 25th, 2021, 9:05 am

swill453 wrote:Is this just a British thing? US series seem to be able to retain quality for longer. e.g. 60 episodes of The Wire, 80+ of the Sopranos etc.

Scott.


Sorry I have been triggered :lol:

I loved The Wire but the quality of the latter seasons was nowhere near as astonishingly good as the first two. The Soparanos last season and in particular the finale while getting much acclaim were unimpressive. I really wished I hadn't bothered after The Sopranos finale, I felt it marred the whole experience however pundits loved it.

So these are two US series that I would hold up as evidence that writers run out of inspiration and shows plateau then decline. There are few programmes where the last season is as good as the first. There are programmes that I would like to have seen more of such as Deadwood but I should be careful what I wish for.

I think the modern curse is that many programmes are written with a bait and switch approach where we are fed unending false plots leading to inconclusive endings that run on for ever like a soap opera. This destroys dramatic tension, and a sense of pace and immersion in a fraught situation.

I think the best series ever made are things like Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy (single series) and Colditz (two series).

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445192

Postby servodude » September 25th, 2021, 9:13 am

AWOL wrote:There are programmes that I would like to have seen more of such as Deadwood but I should be careful what I wish for.

I quite enjoyed the movie!
It wasn't Serenity levels of "closure" but it was a good send off for some of the best characters ever created..

.. and in other news, I think season 4 of the Wire might have been the best ;)

-sd

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445205

Postby AWOL » September 25th, 2021, 9:53 am

servodude wrote:
AWOL wrote:There are programmes that I would like to have seen more of such as Deadwood but I should be careful what I wish for.

I quite enjoyed the movie!
It wasn't Serenity levels of "closure" but it was a good send off for some of the best characters ever created..

.. and in other news, I think season 4 of the Wire might have been the best ;)

-sd


I also enjoyed the film of Deadwood although it was a little strange seeing the ravages of time catching up on them. I had became very attached to the characters.

Regarding Vigil, I am going to watch the last episode but I found the Vanguard class submarine to be incredibly roomy like an oceanic TARDIS, the crew to be very unlike the RN, and the main protagonist to be rather thick and easily lead. As a detective it was surprising how she would believe any story told to her and trust people who moments before had been doing everything to mislead her and upset the investigation. She reminds me of old fashioned female characters. A bit like the helpless, whimpering women, running in fright towards danger that used to be a hallmark of Hollywood films. I have never enjoyed watching that sort of thing as I have never known any real women like that. My world has no shortage of smart and effective women.

I think a lot of recent British TV has been a triumph of style over substance, for example the last season of Line of Duty or the last season of Sherlock. I also suspect that the CND activist Naval adviser had much to do with the plot which far from being a taught psycho-political thriller feels more like a messy delirium of anti-nuclear fantasy.

Thankfully there is a US submarine tailing them that will doubtless have to sink them bringing the whole thing to a neater end than the script writers could otherwise have contrived.

I hope I haven't been too positive in the interests of balance but I still would like to end on a positive note, the actress from game of thrones makes interesting viewing and I brighten every time the camera returns to her.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445218

Postby servodude » September 25th, 2021, 10:42 am

AWOL wrote:
servodude wrote:
AWOL wrote:There are programmes that I would like to have seen more of such as Deadwood but I should be careful what I wish for.

I quite enjoyed the movie!
It wasn't Serenity levels of "closure" but it was a good send off for some of the best characters ever created..

.. and in other news, I think season 4 of the Wire might have been the best ;)

-sd


I also enjoyed the film of Deadwood although it was a little strange seeing the ravages of time catching up on them. I had became very attached to the characters.

Regarding Vigil, I am going to watch the last episode but I found the Vanguard class submarine to be incredibly roomy like an oceanic TARDIS, the crew to be very unlike the RN, and the main protagonist to be rather thick and easily lead. As a detective it was surprising how she would believe any story told to her and trust people who moments before had been doing everything to mislead her and upset the investigation. She reminds me of old fashioned female characters. A bit like the helpless, whimpering women, running in fright towards danger that used to be a hallmark of Hollywood films. I have never enjoyed watching that sort of thing as I have never known any real women like that. My world has no shortage of smart and effective women.

I think a lot of recent British TV has been a triumph of style over substance, for example the last season of Line of Duty or the last season of Sherlock. I also suspect that the CND activist Naval adviser had much to do with the plot which far from being a taught psycho-political thriller feels more like a messy delirium of anti-nuclear fantasy.

Thankfully there is a US submarine tailing them that will doubtless have to sink them bringing the whole thing to a neater end than the script writers could otherwise have contrived.

I hope I haven't been too positive in the interests of balance but I still would like to end on a positive note, the actress from game of thrones makes interesting viewing and I brighten every time the camera returns to her.


I enjoyed the first couple of episodes more than I have those that followed.

I'm beginning to think that Line of Duty might have been a fluke... or at least not subject to the pressure of expectations that causes an unnatural acceleration of plot.

It it were written with the (meta) tagline "from the creators of line of duty" now, I suspect we'd have found out who "the caddy" was in episode 3!

-sd

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445328

Postby flyer61 » September 25th, 2021, 8:58 pm

Velvet was 60 or so episodes...thankfully had sub titles.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445337

Postby BobbyD » September 25th, 2021, 10:49 pm

swill453 wrote:
pje16 wrote:
moorfield wrote:There's plenty of scope for smart writers to solve the murders but keep the sub down there for a little longer, and plenty more back stories to be developed ...

Oh NO I do hope not, when will they learn :roll:
why is it, that with any good programme they want to milk it to death
Best examples of messing it up

Is this just a British thing? US series seem to be able to retain quality for longer. e.g. 60 episodes of The Wire, 80+ of the Sopranos etc.

Scott.


The last series of the wire is based on an entirely ridiculous premise. I think degradation is down to series number more than episodes, and very few programmes manage more than 4 very good series.


AWOL wrote:I loved The Wire but the quality of the latter seasons was nowhere near as astonishingly good as the first two. The Soparanos last season and in particular the finale while getting much acclaim were unimpressive.


Oh, and that's the other important thing, a series should be unexpectedly and controversially cancelled, planned endings never, ever work and the outrage the loyal audience feels keep the series and what should have been burning bright in their minds forever.


servodude wrote:.. and in other news, I think season 4 of the Wire might have been the best ;)

-sd


Everybody has one bizarre belief.

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445342

Postby moorfield » September 25th, 2021, 11:21 pm

Anyway we digress. Any predictions for tomorrows night?

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445352

Postby dionaeamuscipula » September 26th, 2021, 12:21 am

moorfield wrote:Anyway we digress. Any predictions for tomorrows night?


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAN

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445459

Postby AWOL » September 26th, 2021, 6:53 pm

moorfield wrote:Anyway we digress. Any predictions for tomorrows night?


Serious suggestion: They need the Americans to sink Vigil to prevent some greater disaster.

Joke suggestion... the police woman arranged the whole thing as her head is so messed up over her previous underwater experience that she never wants anyone to go in an underwater vehicle again, yet she is so messed up she is unaware of her own machinations. Boom!

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445461

Postby XFool » September 26th, 2021, 7:11 pm

AWOL wrote:
moorfield wrote:Anyway we digress. Any predictions for tomorrows night?

Joke suggestion... the police woman arranged the whole thing as her head is so messed up over her previous underwater experience that she never wants anyone to go in an underwater vehicle again, yet she is so messed up she is unaware of her own machinations. Boom!

Going forward with that...

None of it is real! She's had a breakdown and it's all taking place in her head. :)

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Re: Vigil - BBC1

#445462

Postby moorfield » September 26th, 2021, 7:14 pm

AWOL wrote:
moorfield wrote:Anyway we digress. Any predictions for tomorrows night?


Serious suggestion: They need the Americans to sink Vigil to prevent some greater disaster.

Joke suggestion... the police woman arranged the whole thing as her head is so messed up over her previous underwater experience that she never wants anyone to go in an underwater vehicle again, yet she is so messed up she is unaware of her own machinations. Boom!



Well earlier on I predicted nookie in the bomb shop. That might now be CPR and kiss-of-life in the bomb shop. I'll take that.


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