Which operas to recommend?

[stevensfo]

We have access to an amazing club that organises trips to operas, ballets, concerts etc.

My wife isn't into into classical music concerts, but we both love contemporary dance, ballets, west-end shows etc.

So which operas would you recommend for a newbie? Preferably fun, easy to understand, famous arias etc.

Steve

PS I will enjoy it all! I'm waiting for them to offer The Magic Flute. They are now advertising Wagner's operas. I would love to see those. Just that my wife may start to complain if it goes on too long!

[scrumpyjack]

My wife loved opera and went to most of the Covent Garden rehearsals for many years. She loved Wagner but I found it too long and with extended dirge like recitative. I did see the Magic Flute at Glyndebourne (and many other operas there).

I suggest Verdi - there's some wonderful music, very famous pieces etc. eg Rigoletto. My brother was always a bit snobby about Verdi but it is excellent entertainment!

[Lootman]

My wife loved opera and went to most of the Covent Garden rehearsals for many years. She loved Wagner but I found it too long and with extended dirge like recitative. - there's some wonderful music, very famous pieces etc. eg Rigoletto. My brother was always a bit snobby about Verdi but it is excellent entertainment!

Yes, the first question to ask about any opera is how damn long is it? Some go to 4 hours and if I ever had the patience (and bladder) for that, I don't any more.

[gpadsa]

Preferably fun, easy to understand, famous arias etc.

Carmen
Le nozze di Figaro

If tragedy can be fun, although they are fairly jolly at the start: Il trovatore, La traviata.

The 'easy to understand' may be where many operas fall down, the plots are often so contorted.

gpadsa

[Lootman]

Preferably fun, easy to understand, famous arias etc.

Carmen

Le nozze di Figaro

If tragedy can be fun, although they are fairly jolly at the start: Il trovatore, La traviata.

The 'easy to understand' may be where many operas fall down, the plots are often so contorted.

I thought that true opera fans insist that they are sung in their native language, so the plot might be hard to follow anyway?

[MuddyBoots]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as an opera exactly, but one of the easiest ones to watch for me is Gilbert & Sullivan's The Mikado. Plenty of well known songs and fun in Japanese costumes, and a thinly disguised satire on late 19th century British society and establishment.

[Lootman]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as an opera exactly, but one of the easiest ones to watch for me is Gilbert & Sullivan's The Mikado. Plenty of well known songs and fun in Japanese costumes, and a thinly disguised satire on late 19th century British society and establishment.

My girlfriend at university was in the G&S society so i am familiar with their works.

But true opera buffs consider them to be lightweights.

[tjh290633]

Much of my opera viewing was in Eastern Europe. For some reason, the Poles kept having il Trovatore (Trubadur) when I was there. Carmen in Romanian was interesting. The production of Don Carlos in the Kremlin was a revelation, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. The Magic Flute in Santa Fe, New Mexico , was an enjoyable occasion. The see through stage is unusual with traffic heading to Taos visible. I must have seen others, but those stick in the memory. I should not forget The Fair Maid of Perth by the Oxford University Operatic Society, the first I saw in 1956 in Oxford Town Hall.

I would think that Wagner is a bit long in the early stages. Cav and Pag is a good introduction, with Cavaliero Rusticana and i Pagliaci on the same night. But everyone is different and Sky Arts used to have a good selection. I've seen more there than anywhere.

TJH

[mike]

If you want to watch at home, La Bohème from the ROH is back on iPlayer until Christmas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012tyr

[Leothebear]

Definite snobbery with opera. For me the plots are so ridiculous I prefer those with spine tingling music. Puccini, who I think the buffs consider low brow, suits me fine.

[Arborbridge]

La Boheme
Marriage of Figaro
Carmen
Cav and Pag
Rosenkavalier
Pirates of Penzance, Mikado or almost any other G and S.

All have great melodies, easy-ish to understand. Marriage of Figaro is surprisingly long - but Mozart wrings out every possibility from a relatively simple idea - which are surprisngly modern (great roles for women in Mozart). Carmen's music never fails, neither does La Boheme fail to pull induce tears at the end.

Cav and Pag are two shorts, so make an easy evening.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

Definite snobbery with opera. For me the plots are so ridiculous I prefer those with spine tingling music. Puccini, who I think the buffs consider low brow, suits me fine.

You'll find Puccini being reassessed as it's the 100th anniversary of his death. There's much less snobbery among musicians - the music is cleverly put together: he was a great craftsman who could pull out inspiration when needed, and knew how to create a sound which had emotional impact. (Maybe some of the snobs you've met cannot come to terms with emotion - in which case they are just repressed)

Arb.

[UncleEbenezer]

We have access to an amazing club that organises trips to operas, ballets, concerts etc.

My wife isn't into into classical music concerts, but we both love contemporary dance, ballets, west-end shows etc.

So which operas would you recommend for a newbie? Preferably fun, easy to understand, famous arias etc.

Steve

PS I will enjoy it all! I'm waiting for them to offer The Magic Flute. They are now advertising Wagner's operas. I would love to see those. Just that my wife may start to complain if it goes on too long!

There's a lot to unpack there.

For one thing "going on too long" is a different issue to how long it goes on.

Some operatic traditions (predominantly older opera) tend to alternate plot with musical numbers, arias with lots of repetition, where the plot gets suspended while someone just sings. The background to that is that audiences of the era would only be half-listening, while they might also be chatting, eating, etc, so a lot of repetition didn't drag.

Among those, Mozart is the outstanding recommendation. Mozart's music is wonderful, but it does tend to go on if not cut, and that's compounded by some classic extremely silly plots. Mozart's operas fall into three categories: the ones he wrote because he wanted to, and those he wrote because he had to. The former are the thoroughly subversive Da Ponte comedies (Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan tutte) and the German-language music-hall (Serail, Magic Flute). The third category are the "serious" Italian-language operas, which Mozart didn't much care for, and which are IMHO very much an acquired taste.

Other traditions are much more dramatic, with plot and music much more tightly integrated, and audiences paying full attention. Wagner drove forward this tradition in the mid-19th century, and his mature operas, while being famously long, are gripping drama and never drag.

For a novice? Well, you have several suggestions already. Works like Carmen, with enough plot to follow, and a wealth of the best tunes. Or you can't go wrong with the Verismo tradition - like Puccini, or Cav&Pag. Extend that a bit, and a lot of stuff from the second half of the 19th century (headed by Wagner and Verdi) is great. A little earlier, Rossini stands out in the bel canto tradition. And if you don't recoil at 20th century music, Britten is wonderful, and Gershwin's Porgy&Bess is another outstanding story of the underdog.

G&S (operetta) has been mentioned. It can be fun, or can be awful, and the numerous amateur performances, when they're any good, can be a lot more fun than the pros. But what makes it is Gilbert's fantastic librettos. For my money, the best operetta from that era (OK, slightly later) is Lehar's Merry Widow.

And if you want to try early opera, Monteverdi stands head and shoulders above the rest. But probably not the first choice for a novice.

[stevensfo]

Thanks a million for all the excellent advice, guys!

Lots to put on my list of 'Things to do'.

Re. snobbery, I think that we all get to an age when we really don't give a damn any more. Plus, as an amateur musician, having played music from operas, contemporary, Harry Potter and just about everything and lover of dance and 'all' music, I see things through a strictly neutral eye.

In my 20s, I rented a room in a friend's apartment who was the epitome of snobbery. He used to keep copies of the French magazine 'Maison et Jardin' on his very expensive living room table, even though he couldn't speak a word of French. But he was a really nice guy! We went to a concert once, some contemporary 1900s sort of classical music and I disgraced myself by asking when they were going to start. What I had assumed was the orchestra warming up, was in fact the first piece of the evening! But since then, I have changed and will no longer start to sing "Why are we waiting?" during John Cage's 4'33"

One reason I want to see The Magic Flute is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuBeBjqKSGQ

The woman reminds of a girl who used to work with us and was incapable of saying anything less than 200 decibels!!

Steve

[UncleEbenezer]

Definite snobbery with opera. For me the plots are so ridiculous I prefer those with spine tingling music. Puccini, who I think the buffs consider low brow, suits me fine.

You'll find Puccini being reassessed as it's the 100th anniversary of his death. There's much less snobbery among musicians - the music is cleverly put together: he was a great craftsman who could pull out inspiration when needed, and knew how to create a sound which had emotional impact. (Maybe some of the snobs you've met cannot come to terms with emotion - in which case they are just repressed)

Arb.

I *think* the sniffiness about Puccini may be a certain lack of musical depth: the amount of his music that's more-or-less just tune, in an era when more was expected of serious music. Richard Strauss did ever-more elaborate deep orchestration, and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality. For my money, Puccini was one of the greats despite that, while Strauss was just a lesser Wagner-wannabe.

Though I'd say I Pagliacci (the Pag of Cav&Pag) is head-and-shoulders the best of the Verismo operas I've sung in, beats Boheme into a cocked hat.

[Arborbridge]

You'll find Puccini being reassessed as it's the 100th anniversary of his death. There's much less snobbery among musicians - the music is cleverly put together: he was a great craftsman who could pull out inspiration when needed, and knew how to create a sound which had emotional impact. (Maybe some of the snobs you've met cannot come to terms with emotion - in which case they are just repressed)

Arb.

I *think* the sniffiness about Puccini may be a certain lack of musical depth: the amount of his music that's more-or-less just tune, in an era when more was expected of serious music. Richard Strauss did ever-more elaborate deep orchestration, and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality. For my money, Puccini was one of the greats despite that, while Strauss was just a lesser Wagner-wannabe.

Though I'd say I Pagliacci (the Pag of Cav&Pag) is head-and-shoulders the best of the Verismo operas I've sung in, beats Boheme into a cocked hat.

and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality. and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality.

Look where that got us - to a dead end.

[UncleEbenezer]

I *think* the sniffiness about Puccini may be a certain lack of musical depth: the amount of his music that's more-or-less just tune, in an era when more was expected of serious music. Richard Strauss did ever-more elaborate deep orchestration, and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality. For my money, Puccini was one of the greats despite that, while Strauss was just a lesser Wagner-wannabe.

Though I'd say I Pagliacci (the Pag of Cav&Pag) is head-and-shoulders the best of the Verismo operas I've sung in, beats Boheme into a cocked hat.

and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality. and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality.

Look where that got us - to a dead end.

A dead end, but with some great music. Berg's two operas Wozzeck and Lulu stand out as masterpieces.

The theory behind it always struck me as flawed. The move away from Pythagorean tonality happened with the introduction of equal temperament, spearheaded more than two centuries earlier by Bach. Further moves away were certainly going to happen, but the idea of being prescriptive about it seems bizarre.

[Arborbridge]

and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality. and the avant-garde were starting to explore atonality.

Look where that got us - to a dead end.

A dead end, but with some great music. Berg's two operas Wozzeck and Lulu stand out as masterpieces.

The theory behind it always struck me as flawed. The move away from Pythagorean tonality happened with the introduction of equal temperament, spearheaded more than two centuries earlier by Bach. Further moves away were certainly going to happen, but the idea of being prescriptive about it seems bizarre.

I've seen Lulu once but haven't found a nearby Wozzeck to see. Also the Wedekind play with Anna Friel in it as the wife - that must have been at the Almeida, I think.

Arb.