The Lemon Fool

Seen most, if not all of the great films in my time but I was shocked never to have see this one.

Classic, epic, atmospheric, terrific. BBC IPlayer until Wednesday.

nimnarb wrote:Seen most, if not all of the great films in my time but I was shocked never to have see this one.

Classic, epic, atmospheric, terrific. BBC IPlayer until Wednesday.

One of the best films ever made and brilliantly acted. Atmospheric just about sums it up especially in my opinion the scenes back in the rust belt of the USA.

Parents went to a first night or similar. Came back in shock.

I hate to disagree but The Deer Hunter is a dreadful film, it's all over the place. It starts ok but then oh dear and its a travesty it won an Oscar. I remember seeing it at the cinema when it came out and it certainly hasn't improved with time. I would not recommend anyone watch with high hopes.
Mark Kermode has it about right (as also does Richard Dreyfuss) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juEQhQrf0FI

MM

Respectfully..Kerwood is full of it, Mayo not so much and I personally cant stand most of his comments. Would agree that Deer hunter perhaps not for everyone but just having seen it again, its got such immense depth and feeling for comradery that I stick to what I said. Its an epic and there is a reason why it comes in the top 50 or so films of all time. But hey, I have also cringed at many films recced here so we are all different.

Damn it, so missing the Eurovision song contest this year.............................................NOT.

Deer Hunter and Apocalypse Now came out within a year of each other. I have to agree with Maraman that DH is a poor movie = lot of wrapping paper but little content - typical Hollywood war movie.

The depth of vision shown by AN demonstrates the paucity of real content in DH. Watch AN for war is hell reality in a drug induced haze setting that was Vietnam.

T7

ps yes I know the Conrad/Heart of Darkness context to AN

nimnarb wrote:Seen most, if not all of the great films in my time but I was shocked never to have see this one.

Classic, epic, atmospheric, terrific. BBC IPlayer until Wednesday.

Saw it this morning. I wonder how many other "epics" I have missed and should catch up on.

dealtn wrote:

nimnarb wrote:Seen most, if not all of the great films in my time but I was shocked never to have see this one.

Classic, epic, atmospheric, terrific. BBC IPlayer until Wednesday.

Saw it this morning. I wonder how many other "epics" I have missed and should catch up on.

What did you think of it? I can't understand how some think it is a poor movie especially as there is so much rubbish around.

Mike88 wrote:

dealtn wrote:

nimnarb wrote:Seen most, if not all of the great films in my time but I was shocked never to have see this one.

Classic, epic, atmospheric, terrific. BBC IPlayer until Wednesday.

Saw it this morning. I wonder how many other "epics" I have missed and should catch up on.

What did you think of it? I can't understand how some think it is a poor movie especially as there is so much rubbish around.

I can see how it is a bit "marmitey" in that whilst a good film, it won't be epic status for all, and for some of those the way it is held up as one of the greatest films of all time will smart.

I thought it good, and made me feel uncomfortable at times, which is what you want from art. I suspect the passing of time has lessoned the controversy of the Vietnam setting, and the perceived "ironic" singing at the end. I doubt it would get made today with the same "racism" portrayals. Which is a shame. Not to belittle political correctness entirely, but it would overly soften things. It was of its time so shouldn't be judged in that way, in the same way all the war films of my 70s childhood would be judged differently now with the passing of time.

Also just watched Bridge On The River Kwai, another classic that is hard to think would be made now.

Saw it when it came out. As others have said, the scenes in the USA were better than those in Vietnam. At the time, the atmospherics of the film felt different to most other films I had seen up to that point. Perhaps in the same vein as The French Connection. I agree it's not one of the greats but it is definitely worth watching.

Deer Hunter and Apocalypse Now are simply not comparable. The DeerHunter to me is a late (after the war) big-screen attempt to address for a mass/$ audience what happened. And hence is neutered by that remit.
Apocalyspe Now is arguably not a war film at all, but a philosophical consideration and in your face challenge of what society judges to be sanity, what is socially acceptable and unacceptable, 'state enlisted and enforced insanity'. It takes that question and then takes the viewer through challenge after challenge to it, to force you to consider these things. The viewer should start considering where the line is between right and wrong. How far should or can you go in war? The film constantly refers to skimming the boundary between sanity and insanity, even amongst the highest echelons of the US military. The fact the philosophical 'challenge' is set within the context of war is by the by, perhaps contemporary; the story is based around Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness [1899], https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness And that itself was modelled around Stanley sent on a mission into Africa to find the missing Dr. Livingstone [1871].

It's not a war film, it's a dystopian journey into understanding self, and how that fits into society and generally accepted societal 'order'. I've watched it quite a few times these past 35 odd years, because each time I notice something different, and come away considering something new. My wife refers to it as 'Your war film', but she doesn't get it (and doesn't like the film), for me I've never seen it as anything but a vehemently anti-war film.

Whether or not AN is a war movie or something more profound (after all Jaws isn't just a movie about a shark) I agree that it is much better in every way than DH. I am not trying to argue with those who (inexplicably ) love DH, I just found it a deeply flawed movie and not one that I would regularly return to, as I do with AN. These films were released only one year apart amazingly, yet looking at them now DH is much more dated.

For those not appreciative of Mr Kerwood's (sic) movie criticism, I would refer them to the esteemed Roger Ebert, who said : ""The Deer Hunter" is far from flawless, that there are moments when its characters do not behave convincingly, implausible details involving Walken's stay and fate in Vietnam, unnecessary ambiguities in the De Niro character".He awarded it Four Stars. He does of course say it has some merits, which it does. It is definitely not a worthy winner of a best movie oscar though.

MM

PS - speaking of Roger Ebert, I sat two seats away him in Chicago Symphony Hall a few years ago, where the Symphony Orchestra were playing movie music selected by him. This did not include the Deer Hunter theme, despite it being one of the best things about the movie. They did of course play Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries, as featured in Apocalypse now (such an iconic scene).

MaraMan wrote:This did not include the Deer Hunter theme, despite it being one of the best things about the movie.

"What movie is the theme from the Deer Hunter originally from?" was a standard trick pub quiz question.
- you only put the Deer Hunter down the first time

-sd

servodude wrote:"What movie is the theme from the Deer Hunter originally from?" was a standard trick pub quiz question.
- you only put the Deer Hunter down the first time

Thanks, I've learned something. I used to play that Stanley Myers piece, long, long ago, when I was doing the folk club circuit. It isn't as hard as it probably looks, until you get to the bit that really is. And the audience is thinking blimey, why's he fluffing the filling-in bits after he did the main themes so nicely?

Seriously, if there's even a little bit of (trained) classical guitar in anyone here, the Myers Cavatina is worth a go. Guaranteed to melt any woman's heart. Just don't try and play all of it.

BJ