To catch a Copper

[Arborbridge]

Did anyone watch this program, Channel 4, Monday, which is following a police team equivalent of AC-12?

They have followed Avon and Somerset police investigating "bad" coppers. This program was all about maltreatment and assaults on women, and it semed to me that the investigating team of policemen were stunned by the behaviour of their own colleagues. The way they treated these women was shocking and although there were sometimes mitigating circumstances that wasn't always true.

One acting DI by the name of Cocking (yes, really) was put on trial for having sex with a drunken woman in his car. His defence was that she made the assault on him, but he was unable to resist, not physically, but mentally.
Having sex on duty with a member of the public is a criminal offence, yet he span a good yarn and was acquitted by a jury. I simply do not understand how this could be defensible - he deliberately drove into a quite countryside laybye instead of dropping her at her door. How could he not see that this was wrong, why did he not have the strength of mind just to get the heck out of there? Could the jury not see this was in his gift, that he could have stopped at any time? It looks like we are back in the middle ages when it was a given that women could bewitch men and make them powerless.

He was suspended on full pay - costing us £180,000 - and then given early retirement on medical grounds on a full pension. His misdemeanour, some might said, has been handsomely rewarded.

There where other extraordinary cases and in every one the policemen were not suspended for various reasons - some left the force voluntarily. One of the shocking parts was two policemen who had been seen to handle a distraught woman really poorly - a mental health case. It was decided that the criteion for suspension hadn't been met, but they were given a stiff talking to by their line manager. Shocking, that all that happened was in effect a copsy chat with a mate and they all promised to do better.
In my view, this should have been followed by a professional course teaching them how to handle such cases - but presumably there is no money for that. In mitigation, I would point out (as the police also mentioned) that they are being asked to pick up very many mental health incidents which use to be dealt with by the NHS and Social services - and they just are not trained in this work, neither should they really be doing it.

Finally, I mention the woman on the bridge threatening to jump off. Not the first time, apparently, but the handling of this was diabolical. She was another mental health case, not a criminal, but their response was just to arrest her for being a public nuisance. This was really difficult to watch, not just for the viewer, but for the investigating officers present. The police handling was crass and aggressive which escalated the situation rather than calming it down. As she became more distraught, the worse the police became in response, and the more desperate she became. They treated her like an animal, yet nothing much happened to them as a result. Even a charge of common assault against the police was not possible in the end, because the processes took so long to go through that they ran out of time - six months being allowed to bring a prosecution.

I'm writing this from memory after the event, so apologies if I have anything out of order, or incorrect.

Arb.

[nimnarb]

No dementia for you then, will mosey over there....Thx.

[Arborbridge]

No dementia for you then, will mosey over there....Thx.

Not yet....but I'm beginning to have to think hard sometimes!

[Redmires]

Yes, watched it last night. Shocking but not surprising. For all the people who rail against public service broadcasting (and there's plenty of those on here), this is exactly what TV should be about. Exposing corruption, crime and scandal, (as well as educate and entertain). Another program from last night was 'Scam Interceptors' on the BBC. A small office set up in BBC Scotland are able to intercept scam callers by hacking and listening in on the fraudulent call centres and they do actually save some of the poor victims from their actions. Why the police & banking industry are not doing this is beyond me.

[Arborbridge]

Why the police & banking industry are not doing this is beyond me.

As regards the police, I'm sure it all comes down to money and the number of cases. It's highly specialised and the police services have come through periods of "austerity" like the rest of government - the idea that one can have a first class service while at the same time restraining expendititure is a fiction which all governments support. And the crime warfare is asymmetric: it's far easier, cheaper and profitable to be a scammer or other type of crinimal, than it is to detect and prove that crime later.

Arb.

[didds]

Why the police & banking industry are not doing this is beyond me.

bottom line ... ££££

Police don't have it ie resosurces. Well, they COULD - but then they wont be investigating etc "something else". Quarts and pint pots.

Banks I suspect find it cheaper overall to repay fraud victims than set up 24 x 7 investigation teams - which have no power themselves to act on anything in reality (except advise the person being defrauded)

[XFool]

For all the people who rail against public service broadcasting (and there's plenty of those on here), this is exactly what TV should be about. Exposing corruption, crime and scandal, (as well as educate and entertain).

Aye!

[Dove21]

Resources (or lack of them) may be behind the issue of police effectiveness but has far less to do with the question of organisational culture which is what the C4 programme was about.

I'd argue resourcing is not directly behind
- poor recruitment
- the general culture of impunity
- patently inadequate internal discipline, or
- the disgracefully feeble system of 'independent' oversight whereby one's homework gets safely marked internally.

The interviewed Chief Constable came across as a harassed defensive primary school head who'd just been beaten up by Ofsted.

Dove

[Gerry557]

Gave this a watch from the comments here.

Obviously a difficult job but not helped by some poor and bad choices.

In some ways I feel sorry for some of them. The one where the medical staff were struggling to deal. Should the police say nar nowt to do here and drive away.

Like all walks of life you get good and bad in the police. Hopefully other forces can use this to highlight issues.

Still when you are constantly dealing with the dregs of society is it any wonder your thought processes get out of kilter. I can't remember the term they used, compassion fatigue?

[XFool]

Did anyone watch this program, Channel 4, Monday, which is following a police team equivalent of AC-12?

One acting DI by the name of Cocking (yes, really) was put on trial for having sex with a drunken woman in his car. His defence was that she made the assault on him, but he was unable to resist, not physically, but mentally.
Having sex on duty with a member of the public is a criminal offence, yet he span a good yarn and was acquitted by a jury. I simply do not understand how this could be defensible - he deliberately drove into a quite countryside laybye instead of dropping her at her door. How could he not see that this was wrong, why did he not have the strength of mind just to get the heck out of there? Could the jury not see this was in his gift, that he could have stopped at any time? It looks like we are back in the middle ages when it was a given that women could bewitch men and make them powerless.

He was suspended on full pay - costing us £180,000 - and then given early retirement on medical grounds on a full pension. His misdemeanour, some might said, has been handsomely rewarded.

I saw some of this programme the other night, when repeated. Although I didn't hear all the details of the DI Cocking case - and it was difficult to understand - he did come across in the programme as genuine. Perhaps I am just naïve?

Along with the talk with their line manager, of the pair disciplined for their attitude recorded at the scene of the woman needing medical attention, one could start to see things from the police perspective. How, over time their work wears them down and effects them emotionally and mentally.

It brought to mind that Sidney Lumet film from the 1970s, with Sean Connery, Ian Bannen and Trevor Howard: The Offence

[Redmires]

A difficult job, no doubt about it. The part that stood out for me though was when the copper on the 'potential suicide on bridge' incident said to his colleague later in the night 'I told you I would Pava* someone today', or words to that effect. This shows intent and wasn't picked up by the supervising officer who gave out the stiff talking to/cosy chat.


*Pava - pepper spray alternative