Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Blatter,orangepekoe,longview,ouzo,Fluke, for Donating to support the site

Tarriffs & Trade Wars

including Budgets
77ss
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1361
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:42 am
Has thanked: 305 times
Been thanked: 487 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709582

Postby 77ss » February 3rd, 2025, 9:12 pm

vand wrote:Might as well talk about it, because it has the markets rattled.

Trump being Trump is now imposing tarriffs left right and center, upsetting trade partners and escalating trade tensions.

Where does this go?


No idea, but so much for NAFTA and its successor USMCA. Free trade? Lowering/elimination of tariffs?

When is an agreement not an agreement?

When it is with the US it seems.

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4004
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 642 times
Been thanked: 1899 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709592

Postby gryffron » February 3rd, 2025, 11:07 pm

I wonder if Trump himself, or any of his insiders, are investing on the basis of his mood swings? Good money to be made :twisted:

Gryff

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 12205
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1660 times
Been thanked: 3436 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709611

Postby UncleEbenezer » February 4th, 2025, 7:07 am

gryffron wrote:I wonder if Trump himself, or any of his insiders, are investing on the basis of his mood swings? Good money to be made :twisted:

Gryff

And not an eyebrow raised about conflict of interest. At least, not when hedgies like Rees-Mogg and Leadsom were betting against Blighty from within our government.

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 9498
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4942 times
Been thanked: 4039 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709618

Postby servodude » February 4th, 2025, 7:36 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
gryffron wrote:I wonder if Trump himself, or any of his insiders, are investing on the basis of his mood swings? Good money to be made :twisted:

Gryff

And not an eyebrow raised about conflict of interest. At least, not when hedgies like Rees-Mogg and Leadsom were betting against Blighty from within our government.


The access Musk had been given to "apparently everything" is utterly mind boggling in this regard

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7986
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1895 times
Been thanked: 4397 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709626

Postby Mike4 » February 4th, 2025, 8:32 am

servodude wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:And not an eyebrow raised about conflict of interest. At least, not when hedgies like Rees-Mogg and Leadsom were betting against Blighty from within our government.


The access Musk had been given to "apparently everything" is utterly mind boggling in this regard


As a brief and amusing (to me at least) aside, did you notice Stephen Fry's acerbic comment about Musk? Something along the lines of "Musk is not a Nazi.... Nazis made really good cars"...

:lol:

Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709638

Postby Urbandreamer » February 4th, 2025, 9:07 am

Mike4 wrote:
servodude wrote:
The access Musk had been given to "apparently everything" is utterly mind boggling in this regard


As a brief and amusing (to me at least) aside, did you notice Stephen Fry's acerbic comment about Musk? Something along the lines of "Musk is not a Nazi.... Nazis made really good cars"...

:lol:


Funny, but inaccurate in oh so many ways.
Ignoring the intended slur upon Tesla, did the Nazis make good cars? Or did they steal the designs?

In any case Adolf Hitler is reported to have encountered and said of Tatra's cars; "This is the car for my roads".[7][8] Ferdinand Porsche was accused of using Tatra designs to design the Volkswagen quickly and cheaply.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_97

On that subject, isn't there something called Godwin's law?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

GoSeigen
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4980
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:14 pm
Has thanked: 1951 times
Been thanked: 1891 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709639

Postby GoSeigen » February 4th, 2025, 9:10 am

Hmm, maybe all along China was the real target for tariffs and the 25% for Canada and Mexico were just to make the 10% look "reasonable", and the fake "deals" made with them resulting in the lifting of the fake tariffs are to signal that China must also look for some big shiny gift to appease Trumpolini.


[I don't think China should or will roll over. The time to deal with Russia and China was 20 years ago but W courageously went after the formidable duo of Iraq and Afghanistan instead. The rest is history.]


GS

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 9498
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4942 times
Been thanked: 4039 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709640

Postby servodude » February 4th, 2025, 9:11 am

Urbandreamer wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
As a brief and amusing (to me at least) aside, did you notice Stephen Fry's acerbic comment about Musk? Something along the lines of "Musk is not a Nazi.... Nazis made really good cars"...

:lol:


Funny, but inaccurate in oh so many ways.
Ignoring the intended slur upon Tesla, did the Nazis make good cars? Or did they steal the designs?

In any case Adolf Hitler is reported to have encountered and said of Tatra's cars; "This is the car for my roads".[7][8] Ferdinand Porsche was accused of using Tatra designs to design the Volkswagen quickly and cheaply.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_97

On that subject, isn't there something called Godwin's law?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."


Have you seen Godwin's comments re:Trump?
https://www.commondreams.org/news/godwins-law-trump

Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709650

Postby Urbandreamer » February 4th, 2025, 9:30 am

servodude wrote:Have you seen Godwin's comments re:Trump?
https://www.commondreams.org/news/godwins-law-trump


I hadn't, and do feel that it devalues the original "law". Apparently it should not be considered as universal, but partisan.

I'll remember that next time that I feel like commenting upon actions by the Israeli government. It's apparently no longer wrong to draw such comparisons, if justified and the targets are democratically elected.

I apologize if I have drawn the thread off topic, let us return to the subject of the thread title.

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 9498
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4942 times
Been thanked: 4039 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709660

Postby servodude » February 4th, 2025, 9:55 am

Urbandreamer wrote:
servodude wrote:Have you seen Godwin's comments re:Trump?
https://www.commondreams.org/news/godwins-law-trump


I hadn't, and do feel that it devalues the original "law". Apparently it should not be considered as universal, but partisan.


It wasn't designed as a law in the sense of "a rule of law", rather in the sense of "a statement of fact derived from observation" (a "law of nature")... so surely it's hardly devalued when it's seen in the wild?

Given his stated intent was to make people be less glib about the holocaust, and the quote in the page you linked:
Godwin rejects the idea that whoever invokes Godwin's law has lost the argument, and suggests that, applied appropriately, the rule "should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter."

I don't think it's THAT off topic when discussing the (arm) actions and intents of the current USA administration...
...Mike's comment about Tesla was a bit glib though (possibly because I believe he drives one :) )

dionaeamuscipula
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1231
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:25 pm
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 437 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#709862

Postby dionaeamuscipula » February 5th, 2025, 9:53 am

77ss wrote:
When is an agreement not an agreement?

When it is with the US it seems.


The two things everyone should know about Trump are that he doesn't pay his bills and cheats at golf.

These two facts explain much of his behaviour as president.

DM

Sources (there are many others):

Not paying bills: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /85297274/

cheats at golf: https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/spor ... 857594007/

vand
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1107
Joined: January 5th, 2022, 9:00 am
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 556 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#710866

Postby vand » February 10th, 2025, 1:10 pm

While Mexico and Canada toe the line, this thing is escalating with China as Beijing, rather unsuprisingly, doesn't want to be Trump's beeyotch

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cd7dwq87zvqt

MuddyBoots
Lemon Slice
Posts: 879
Joined: May 20th, 2019, 1:59 pm
Has thanked: 2058 times
Been thanked: 262 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#710873

Postby MuddyBoots » February 10th, 2025, 1:36 pm

vand wrote:While Mexico and Canada toe the line, this thing is escalating with China as Beijing, rather unsuprisingly, doesn't want to be Trump's beeyotch

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cd7dwq87zvqt

I haven't followed this as closely as some here, but I thought Trump's whole argument was that these other countries don't trade freely with the US, so he is applying tariffs, as it says in the above article, reciprocally, to even the playing field. Annoyingly, it only gives figures for US's tariffs on imports, not for how much the other countries apply tariffs, subsidies and other barriers. And now China is retaliating with increasing their tariffs. So who is actually restricting free trade the most? It's making me suspicious that reports like this only give one side of the picture and are effectively biased.

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 9498
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4942 times
Been thanked: 4039 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#710976

Postby servodude » February 10th, 2025, 9:34 pm

MuddyBoots wrote:So who is actually restricting free trade the most?


The guy that starts the trade war. The tit that stops the flow of tat.

I thought after the Canada & Mexico responses that DT was using this as a bluff - using his loose canon reputation as leverage.
Not sure now.. but he can't squeeze Xi the same way (yet I think in his head he's proven himself right)

Whatsitworth
Posts: 39
Joined: March 19th, 2023, 11:55 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#710978

Postby Whatsitworth » February 10th, 2025, 10:22 pm

dionaeamuscipula wrote:
77ss wrote:
When is an agreement not an agreement?

When it is with the US it seems.


The two things everyone should know about Trump are that he doesn't pay his bills and cheats at golf.

These two facts explain much of his behaviour as president.

DM

Sources (there are many others):

Not paying bills: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /85297274/

cheats at golf: https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/spor ... 857594007/


What a bastard

MuddyBoots
Lemon Slice
Posts: 879
Joined: May 20th, 2019, 1:59 pm
Has thanked: 2058 times
Been thanked: 262 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#710982

Postby MuddyBoots » February 10th, 2025, 10:39 pm

servodude wrote:
MuddyBoots wrote:So who is actually restricting free trade the most?


The guy that starts the trade war. The tit that stops the flow of tat.

I thought after the Canada & Mexico responses that DT was using this as a bluff - using his loose canon reputation as leverage.
Not sure now.. but he can't squeeze Xi the same way (yet I think in his head he's proven himself right)

Hmm, yeah, so if I'm to believe Trump's narrative the ball is in America's court and he needs to make the next move because they have a big trade deficit with China, and the status quo is China sitting pretty while American producers struggle. I just hope he's thought this through a few steps ahead like a good Chess player.

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 9498
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4942 times
Been thanked: 4039 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#710992

Postby servodude » February 10th, 2025, 11:47 pm

MuddyBoots wrote:
servodude wrote:
The guy that starts the trade war. The tit that stops the flow of tat.

I thought after the Canada & Mexico responses that DT was using this as a bluff - using his loose canon reputation as leverage.
Not sure now.. but he can't squeeze Xi the same way (yet I think in his head he's proven himself right)

Hmm, yeah, so if I'm to believe Trump's narrative the ball is in America's court and he needs to make the next move because they have a big trade deficit with China, and the status quo is China sitting pretty while American producers struggle. I just hope he's thought this through a few steps ahead like a good Chess player.


This is more kicking over the table than playing chess :)

Remember what happened last time the US tried this... anyone, anyone...
https://youtu.be/AyyAh2lQXF8?t=47

1nvest
Lemon Half
Posts: 5385
Joined: May 31st, 2019, 7:55 pm
Has thanked: 988 times
Been thanked: 2136 times

Re: Tarriffs & Trade Wars

#711141

Postby 1nvest » February 11th, 2025, 5:30 pm

Opportunity.

Interesting paper https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research ... ebtholders

My interpretation is that its a proposal for the US to instate taxes on alternative currencies - such as Bitcoin (and presumably gold), as otherwise they limit the ability for the state to inflate (debasing currency is a form of taxation).

In 1967 Alan Greenspan wrote:
The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit.... The law of supply and demand is not to be conned. As the supply of money increases relative to the supply of tangible assets in the economy, prices must eventually rise. Thus the earnings saved by the productive members of the society lose value in terms of goods . When the economy's books are finally balanced, one finds that this loss in value represents the goods purchased by the government for welfare or other purposes.... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold... The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirade against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the hidden confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights.

Rather than remaining aligned to US, the dollar and its regulatory requirements/reporting, enabling it to export inflation onto others such as ourselves, perhaps the UK would be better placed by diversifying away from that, reducing regulation to promote large US stocks to re-domicile here rather than in the US, lowering/eliminating regulation and taxation on the likes of bitcoin/gold. Become more of a safe haven away from debasement/confiscation by the US/EU. The place for wealth to flow to. Keeping wealth within this country should be a matter of national security/priority, sadly this present government doesn't see/get that. The UK was the primary global hub for law/accounting/finance, hence many global laws are written in English. Reinstating/growth of that could yield potentially massive benefits/rewards and the recent climate is well positioned for the UK to lay down those foundations.

Sadly the present government are severely lacking and are more inclined to yield a net liability/loss rather than grasping the opportunity.


Return to “The Economy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests