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Free enterprise or socialism

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XFool
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Re: Free enterprise or socialism

#381359

Postby XFool » January 27th, 2021, 8:01 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:
funduffer wrote:The trouble with this question is that it assumes there is no middle way.
There is a middle way, and I wish we could return to it.

I quite agree and it is so sad that we are well to the left of it at present :D

That's global pandemics for you. :D

mark88man
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Re: Free enterprise or socialism

#381390

Postby mark88man » January 27th, 2021, 10:58 pm

XFool wrote:
88V8 wrote:The media is on the whole, Socialist, which exacerbates the trend.

LOL!

Comedy Gold. :)


some people believe that - swearing that the BBC is full of lefties, when 95% of their political commentators were young conservatives or end up as communication directors in that party

I'm sure Murdoch or Desmond or any of the others would not appreciate the compliment

gryffron
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Re: Free enterprise or socialism

#381739

Postby gryffron » January 28th, 2021, 10:28 pm

XFool wrote:
funduffer wrote:Communism didn’t work.
Tax cuts for the rich, austerity and trickle down economics don’t work.
What if there is nothing that works? :(

"Managed capitalism" in China seems to be working pretty well. Also Vietnam which akaik is the only other country following the same model.

They still have more state control of critical infrastructure (energy/telecoms/steel/oil) than is typical in the west. But unlike the west they don't run their state industries for the benefit of the Unions.

Gryff

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Re: Free enterprise or socialism

#467953

Postby Albert90 » December 22nd, 2021, 5:58 am

The renewable sector has pushed relentlessly for mandates requiring utilities to buy renewable power - wind and solar - at prices far above market rates. With renewable costs plunging all the time (solar by over 40 percent in some markets just last year), renewable incentives have become unnecessary, even counterproductive. But renewable developers cling stubbornly to them because of one problem: subsidies are their only hope of competing with conventional energy sources like coal and natural gas. Corporations justify these government handouts as "investments," while critics liken them to bribery. But in either case, renewable energy would not exist in a free market.

The banking sector is another area where socialism pervades. For years, the government has protected banks and other financial institutions with regulations that make it difficult for new entrants to compete. This has led to a concentration of banking assets in the hands of a few large institutions. These banks then use their political clout to get taxpayers to bail them out when they make risky investments and subsequently fail. Socialism enables these banks to gamble with impunity, knowing that they will be bailed out if things go wrong.

In both the renewable energy and banking sectors, government intervention distorts the market and allows less efficient companies to survive at the expense of more efficient ones. This is not the way a free market works. In a free market, renewable energy would have to compete on price and performance with other forms of energy, and banks would have to compete for deposits by offering the best interest rates. But in our current system, renewable energy companies and banks can rely on government subsidies and regulations to give them an unfair advantage.



We should all be concerned about the increasing influence of socialism in our economy. It stifles innovation and leads to less efficiency and higher costs. We need to return to a free market where businesses must compete on their merits, and the government plays a minimal role in the economy. Only then will we see the true potential of renewable energy realized.

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Re: Free enterprise or socialism

#467973

Postby Midsmartin » December 22nd, 2021, 9:53 am

A totally free market has a big failing. It does not account for the future costs of pollution in all its forms.. A shopper cannot tell if a product was made without releasing toxic pollution in manufacture, or huge greenhouse emissions. We require regulation to do so. Likewise once we realise that fossil fuels are a problem, it's the only acceptable policy for governments to try to stop using them. Sadly they are 30+ years late in doing this.

The above post is odd. Fossil fuels receive massive though reducing government inputs around the world usually in the form of tax breaks.
Subsidies for renewables have helped I think. The cost of them has fallen hugely, as has their use, helped by government action. And that is a good thing

Of course all energy sources use steel, concrete etc.
The only certainty is that unrestrained infinite economic growth is literally not sustainable. Either we stop doing it in a controlled way, or nature will stop it happening on a catastrophic way.

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Re: Free enterprise or socialism

#467988

Postby Hallucigenia » December 22nd, 2021, 10:40 am

Albert90 wrote:The renewable sector has pushed relentlessly for mandates requiring utilities to buy renewable power - wind and solar - at prices far above market rates. With renewable costs plunging all the time (solar by over 40 percent in some markets just last year), renewable incentives have become unnecessary, even counterproductive. But renewable developers cling stubbornly to them because of one problem: subsidies are their only hope of competing with conventional energy sources like coal and natural gas. Corporations justify these government handouts as "investments," while critics liken them to bribery. But in either case, renewable energy would not exist in a free market.


Except the subsidies have done their job, you're now seeing eg windfarms built without subsidy :
https://www.sse.com/news-and-views/2021 ... wind-farm/


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