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The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

including Budgets
Arborbridge
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392105

Postby Arborbridge » March 4th, 2021, 9:02 am

Gengulphus wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:... I didn't think chasing down that link - it might have been a rabbit hole ;) ...

You didn't actually need to chase down the link - just looking at it properly reveals:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/budget-2021-tax-related-documents#tax-information-and-impact-notes

I do realise of course that actual link text is often uninformative - but it does prove useful often enough that I find it worth at least casting a quick eye over it.

Gengulphus


OK I didn't notice amongst the address of the link that there was concealed the answer to my question. I'm stupid, lazy, dumb, however you want to characterise it: maybe just human?
But the fact remains that creeping acronyms and abbreviated forms in general are a menace and help to make language less transparent rather than more. Language is the art of communication and if people want to communicate they do so more effectively by making their language more transparent rather than obscure. We aren't here to set or play guessing games.
We all use abbreviations within a context where they are well known and understood (for example the HYP community uses "HYP" or "VOD" because everyone in that group knows what it stands for): that is acceptable. But what too often happens is that an acronym drops in out of the blue - it's happened at least twice recently - and then people start wasting time pondering on what it means and where it was first mentioned, rather than understanding the conversation.
There's no excuse for it and at least two of us were baffled, with no doubt several others who didn't like to raise the point. Those people will be less likely to ask questions (on any subject) and find out in future, if others belittle them for doing so.

Arb.

NeilW
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392117

Postby NeilW » March 4th, 2021, 9:24 am

dealtn wrote:
When was the last time the BoE and Treasury didn't permit it? The sterling money market is, and I continue to believe will continue to be the rate setter.


They haven't been permitting it for ten years - hence QE. And of course base rate setting artificially maintains the Bank Rate above zero, which is where it would drop to naturally in a pure market under excess reserves (since banks can't get rid of them in aggregate).

April 9th last year on the three month bill is the best example of expectational control of rates. But the whole of QE over the last decade here and three decades in Japan is the same. It's yield curve management. The central banks will drain bond issues until the price goes up to where they want it, which forces the yield down - because everybody ends up with floating rate debt (ie Sterling) they can't get rid off in aggregate and they fight each other for what is left since the alternative is 0.1% overnight.

QE is setting interest rates higher up the yield curve than overnight.

You trust a government, any government, to understand when there is spare capacity, when that is exhausted, when economically it is better, even if not politically, to act in such fashion?


You don't need to trust them, and neither do you need to trust unelected wonks in a central bank ivory tower who have proved just as useless. You can do it all automatically. If the government is purchasing off the floor then they won't be able to buy anything if the private sector wants it, since the private sector will just pay more for it and the government won't up their bid - because Parliament has banned them from doing so.

It's entirely driven by the current desires of the private sector, but guarantees that nothing remains unused - particularly the unemployed. That leads to greater GDP and greater output for any given interest rate. More profit, more investment, more automation (because "what about the jobs" no longer matters, ie no more bailouts of firms that should die), more productivity and a greater standard of living. Much better than debt millstones around people's necks.

It's just an automatic stabiliser system, and those have been in place for the thick end of a century now. If government wants anything else then it has to stop it being bought - which means raising the necessary taxes to remove the private sector's purchasing capacity. And justifying that to the voting population.

If the private sector doesn't like the amount government is spending then it can control that itself. Just bid it away from government and spending will automatically reduce.

The functional rule is far more direct mechanism for controlling government spending than messing around setting interest rates.

And that then leads to the Sterling exchange rate. For those who don't believe in functionalism to leave, those who do have to come in. And the latter are the ones with the money, particularly in the Silicon Valley fraternity. Why would they not pick up British assets while they are going cheap, when they know there is going to be a demand boom due to the stabilisers?

That's just a market operating. The old guard with their out of date beliefs lose money, and the new people who understand how stocks and flows work make money. It's just a transfer from the old to the young - as needs to happen.

NeilW

dealtn
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392124

Postby dealtn » March 4th, 2021, 9:32 am

I think I am at the point of losing the energy to engage with you.

What you describe is the "market" working, being allowed to work, having been allowed to work for a very long time, all in an argument that it isn't the market, ending with a quote "That's just a market operating".

yorkshirelad1
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392140

Postby yorkshirelad1 » March 4th, 2021, 9:53 am

billyfreezer wrote:March 23rd is the key day for CGT announcements or property tax or wealth tax...etc
No idea why it's separate from the Budget, but it is.


+1

chas49
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392152

Postby chas49 » March 4th, 2021, 10:18 am

Arborbridge wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:... I didn't think chasing down that link - it might have been a rabbit hole ;) ...

You didn't actually need to chase down the link - just looking at it properly reveals:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/budget-2021-tax-related-documents#tax-information-and-impact-notes

I do realise of course that actual link text is often uninformative - but it does prove useful often enough that I find it worth at least casting a quick eye over it.

Gengulphus


OK I didn't notice amongst the address of the link that there was concealed the answer to my question. I'm stupid, lazy, dumb, however you want to characterise it: maybe just human?
......


Moderator Message:
Guys - this discussion isn't really on-topic for the Taxes board. I think you've made your points, so perhaps it's best dropped now? Thanks (chas49)

dealtn
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392153

Postby dealtn » March 4th, 2021, 10:20 am

chas49 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:You didn't actually need to chase down the link - just looking at it properly reveals:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/budget-2021-tax-related-documents#tax-information-and-impact-notes

I do realise of course that actual link text is often uninformative - but it does prove useful often enough that I find it worth at least casting a quick eye over it.

Gengulphus


OK I didn't notice amongst the address of the link that there was concealed the answer to my question. I'm stupid, lazy, dumb, however you want to characterise it: maybe just human?
......


Moderator Message:
Guys - this discussion isn't really on-topic for the Taxes board. I think you've made your points, so perhaps it's best dropped now? Thanks (chas49)


This isn't the Taxes board (anymore) though - although you are probably right about dropping it.

chas49
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392197

Postby chas49 » March 4th, 2021, 11:36 am

dealtn wrote:This isn't the Taxes board (anymore) though - although you are probably right about dropping it.


Ah, so it isn't.... the subject heading fooled me :) - as you say, my point stands though.

Lootman
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392243

Postby Lootman » March 4th, 2021, 1:32 pm

NeilW wrote:
Lootman wrote:I don't know if anyone else mentioned in but the creation of eight Freeport zones is exciting. One of them is even far from the sea!

About as far as you can get since East Midlands Airport is near Derby.

Yes, perhaps that was deliberate. EMA airport is actually in Leicestershire and serves Derby, Nottingham and Leicester equally. It was actually called Nottingham East Midlands Airport for a while, but I guess Derby and Leicester complained and the "Nottingham" was dropped.

It is an under-utilised airport with a 3 km runway, which might be part of the argument for giving it, and the area, a boost. DHL and UPS both use it as a base, and it is right by the M1, and not far from the M42 and the M6.

A good choice, in my view.

zico
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392352

Postby zico » March 4th, 2021, 4:12 pm

Back to practical tax implications of the budget, and the new 130% tax relief idea, might it now be worthwhile private individuals setting themselves up as a company, then buying a new conservatory (for use as a business office) and a couple of new cars (for travel for the business)?
So a spend of £80k could result in the government giving them £104k to do this.

Obviously this sounds an awful lot like a completely fraudulent scheme, but would it be if I honestly intended to start a business, made all these business-related spending decisions, and then decided I didn't have time to run the business properly. Who's to say I never intended to run a business?
In practice, what would be the checks and balances for this?

It seems like it only costs £12 to set up a limited company.

Charlottesquare
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392356

Postby Charlottesquare » March 4th, 2021, 4:25 pm

zico wrote:Back to practical tax implications of the budget, and the new 130% tax relief idea, might it now be worthwhile private individuals setting themselves up as a company, then buying a new conservatory (for use as a business office) and a couple of new cars (for travel for the business)?
So a spend of £80k could result in the government giving them £104k to do this.

Obviously this sounds an awful lot like a completely fraudulent scheme, but would it be if I honestly intended to start a business, made all these business-related spending decisions, and then decided I didn't have time to run the business properly. Who's to say I never intended to run a business?
In practice, what would be the checks and balances for this?

It seems like it only costs £12 to set up a limited company.


I have a sneaky feeling cars may be excluded, I have not read it all in detail yet, they would also anyway likely trip BIKs. (Benefits in kind)
The main abusive avenue to me seems to be taking things you might have expensed and treating them as capital items, under £50 power drills, hole punches, staplers etc.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... uction.pdf

scrumpyjack
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392360

Postby scrumpyjack » March 4th, 2021, 4:29 pm

zico wrote:Back to practical tax implications of the budget, and the new 130% tax relief idea, might it now be worthwhile private individuals setting themselves up as a company, then buying a new conservatory (for use as a business office) and a couple of new cars (for travel for the business)?
So a spend of £80k could result in the government giving them £104k to do this.

Obviously this sounds an awful lot like a completely fraudulent scheme, but would it be if I honestly intended to start a business, made all these business-related spending decisions, and then decided I didn't have time to run the business properly. Who's to say I never intended to run a business?
In practice, what would be the checks and balances for this?

It seems like it only costs £12 to set up a limited company.


That's not how it works. The 130% is the tax deduction - so you get 19% of £104k off your tax bill (or whatever your corporation tax rate is)

Charlottesquare
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392367

Postby Charlottesquare » March 4th, 2021, 4:45 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... april-2021

Has some of the basics but needs read in conjunction with CA2001

This is the draft legislation:-

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... uction.pdf

And CAA2001 (may not be up to date) for those who like this sort of thing (I will await a commentary by PWC/similar)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2001/2/contents

gryffron
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Re: The Budget - 3 March 2021 - Taxes Practical

#392400

Postby gryffron » March 4th, 2021, 5:47 pm

Lootman wrote:[East Midlands Airport] is an under-utilised airport with a 3 km runway, which might be part of the argument for giving it, and the area, a boost. DHL and UPS both use it as a base, and it is right by the M1, and not far from the M42 and the M6.
A good choice, in my view.

The airport is a busy air-freight handler.
AND it has just opened a large rail container freight depot https://www.business-live.co.uk/ports-l ... g-17536758
AND it will be a station on HS3 ;)
About as good a "levelling up" option as HMG are likely to find.
Good choice IMO too.

Gryff


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