Energy costs.

[Gilgongo]

OK how about calling them tax expenditures then? But no matter - they're obviously qualitatively different, but their effect on the economy is the same as giving people money (or free/cheap goods or services, or loans), which is what we're talking about in this thread.

[TUK020]

While I personally agree that the state should not be subsidising things, it's not unknown.

Not entirely unknown, no. HMG spends approximately £200 billion on individual welfare benefits in the form of benefits like heating allowances etc., and about £100 billion in corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks and ....

ARGH! I say again ARGH. While I was not clear I really HATE with capitals the concept that not taxing something can be described as a subsidy. It would not cost as much if it wasn't taxed, hence getting rid of the tax is NOT a subsidy. The government does subsidise (arguably bribe) people and companies to buy electric cars. It's described as a grant. I happen to like that subsidy. However a tax break is NOT a subsidy. It's a restoration.

"Allowance" or "tax break", how dare you claim either is a subsidy.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subsidy

: a grant or gift of money: such as

No doubt you would argue that standard rate tax payers are "subsidised" because at some point those who earn enough have their personal tax allowance cut!

I'm going to shout again. DON'T PLAY FAST AND LOOSE WITH THESE TERMS. You insult anyone on a low or even "standard" income.

I'm not even going to consider your corporate arguments as you regard tax breaks as a subsidy.

OK, let's not use the "S" word.
But, every allowance or tax break increases the tax burden on everyone else

[88V8]

...the advent of central heating is new phenomena which we really cannot afford, and it is quite obscene for people to heat their houses full of empty space to more than say 58 deg F.

15C? You must be joking!

Even for me that is a bit parky, but when we had CH the stat in the hall was set to 61F/16c.

I think his point is that folks are heating the whole house, not just the living rooms.
You must remember when the living room was heated, and perhaps the kitchen, and that was it.
When my parents had oil heating installed in their 50s semi in the mid 60s, it was only in the sitting room, drawing room, and I think the hall.
The kitchen had a coke stove. Otherwise nothing.

V8

[Urbandreamer]

OK, let's not use the "S" word.
But, every allowance or tax break increases the tax burden on everyone else

Indeed. Financially there is no difference between the government paying 5% of everyones fuel bill and simply not collecting the VAT on it.
The money would have to be found from somewhere. The sugestion is that it is taken from the oil and gas sector.

The words used however, "one off" and "subsidy" do carry specific meanings that is entirely different than what is actually being proposed.

Now if the sugestion was that Universal credit were increased, that would be a subsidy. Likewise if the funding was from an emergancy levy or tax we would actually understand what is proposed rather then being expected to accept that it hadn't been done before and wouldn't be repeated.