Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

I have sold my utility shares

including Budgets
Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18681
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6564 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518367

Postby Lootman » July 30th, 2022, 6:40 pm

XFool wrote:When the profits evaporate, suddenly the "public", one way or another, is expected to pick up the tab.

The government would not usually step in if the only problem is that a company is making a loss. For the government to step in there must be an imminent threat to the company staying solvent AND that company must be sufficiently in the public interest to be deemed worth saving. Plenty of FTSE-100 companies have failed and the government did nothing to save them, and that is how capitalism should work.

But the entire energy and rail systems cannot cease to exist so inevitably they have to be saved. Although such "saving" rarely bails out the investors.

In any event the topic here is the risk to investors of nationalisation by the government, and that risk exists with both the Tories and with Labour. The difference is that with Labour it is ideological whereas with the Tories it is emergency only. In fact Labour has nationalised businesses that were not viable simply to "save jobs", which I believe is the "Lemon Socialism" that Ursa referenced.

It was in response to the risk of a Labour government that I offloaded my UK utilities a few years ago. No regrets.
Last edited by Lootman on July 30th, 2022, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ursaminortaur
Lemon Half
Posts: 6944
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 447 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518369

Postby ursaminortaur » July 30th, 2022, 6:43 pm

joey wrote:
XFool wrote:That is one hard and fast simple example. However, surely it is a little narrow? My point is more generally that we seem to have a kind of pseudo-capitalism in the UK, which seems built in to the way these things work. Everything is 'privatised' - because of the "public bad, private good" ideology - and when the profits are flowing private is indeed "good" - for the insiders? When the profits evaporate, suddenly the "public", one way or another, is expected to pick up the tab. This often seems to be built in to entire industries: Energy companies, Railways... Also, when you think about it, any company that pays wages so low the employees have to be subsidised by the state via benefits. We are effectively paying our taxes to keep the shareholders and owners in the style to which they want to be accustomed. Why do these companies exist? What are they even for?


No, the “privatise the profits & socialise the downsides” expression came about, AFAIK, due to the response to the financial crisis of the late 00’s. (I am happy to be corrected if not). The meaning of it was clear — bailout for the banks, and letting the executives and shareholders off. It doesn’t mean a general expression about helping out customers which is what is happening in your example about energy markets. There are no energy insiders or shareholders benefiting from the tax payer, are there?

To your more general point though: I cant figure out which side of the argument you come down on. Public? Private? A mix? Are you in favour of these interventions or not? The tone of your post suggests in general an anti-private view. “We are effectively paying our taxes to keep the shareholders and owners in the style to which they want to be accustomed.”. No. We are effectively paying our taxes because Gordon Brown is an old school socialist who found a way to make transfer payments from the more well off to the less well off, effectively enslaving large portions of the population to the State whilst removing incentives for private companies to pay what should be the going rate. Twenty years later and surprise surprise there are a tonne of problems created by State intervention. Don’t place the blame for that on private companies! On the point about entire industries — energy industry has already been debunked. Banks I’d agree on. They should have been left to collapse after ‘08. Railways are a special case due to having been denationalised and still having a strong union presence. Can’t think of any other industries where this is happening though.



The concept, if not the exact phrase, comes from earlier

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/privatizing-profits-and-socializing-losses.asp

The phrase privatizing profits and socializing losses has a number of synonyms, including socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor, and lemon socialism. The latter was coined in a 1974 New York Times op-ed about New York State's decision to buy two half-finished power plants from the struggling electric utility ConEd for $500 million

https://calgaryrealestate.ca/news/2012/02/joseph-stiglitz-economics-capitalism/

Joseph Stiglitz, Columbia University professor and Nobel laureate, made the phrase, “Privatize profits; socialize losses,” popular after he used it in an interview with CNBC. However, he isn’t the one who invented it. The notion that banks privatize their profits but don’t take losses, pushing them instead onto society usually through the government, dates to the 19th century and to Andrew Jackson’s quote on closing the Second Bank of the U.S. The problem doesn’t only affect the U.S., however: this is in fact how the secret banking game works worldwide, and society could notice this thanks to the last crisis. Occupy Wall Street, which also popularizes the phrase, isn‘t the only consequence of this growing social awareness.
Last edited by ursaminortaur on July 30th, 2022, 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518388

Postby Dod101 » July 30th, 2022, 7:28 pm

XFool wrote:
joey wrote:
XFool wrote:
absolutezero wrote:If nationalisation stopped civil unrest then it's a quick and easy fix.
Sod the shareholders. Nobody cares about them. Profit and capitalism are disgusting these days, don't you know?

Do we know that? Or is it perhaps the pseudo-'capitalism' * form of "capitalism" that disgusts people? The kind of 'capitalism' we have so recently witnessed in action in the UK in... the energy supply industry!


* Privatise the upside, socialise the downside

When has the downside been socialised in the energy industry?

Who is now paying for all those failed energy contracts?


We all are. It is just that we do not see it because it is included in our utility bills, £94 per quarter, or per year? I read, irrespective of whether you benefited from the lower prices or not.

Dod

Walkeia
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 134
Joined: April 27th, 2019, 8:03 am
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518454

Postby Walkeia » July 30th, 2022, 11:24 pm

The French government just nationalised EDF at a 36% premium - if you seriously think nationalisation is on the cards then this example would argue to buy utilities would it not.

I personally think there’s very little chance of this happening outside of the railways and the jump to civil unrest and societal strains is a bit much. Times are hard but scenes at the airports over recent months show a population confident to spend on a holiday. I don’t think we’re quite at the stage where people prioritise this over their utility bills. The jobs market is very tight so changing or re-entering employment will help with the cost of living. Those hit hardest are on a fixed income or the poorest sadly.

The utilities will just be regulated to death to prevent this happening again - ie. the energy suppliers who effectively ran unhedged positions giving them one way risk reward won’t be allowed to etc.

My view is that we’ve just entered a moderate to harsh recession and this will alleviate some of the recent economic tensions - especially on the supply side.

BullDog
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2445
Joined: November 18th, 2021, 11:57 am
Has thanked: 1966 times
Been thanked: 1198 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518468

Postby BullDog » July 31st, 2022, 7:38 am

Walkeia wrote:The French government just nationalised EDF at a 36% premium - if you seriously think nationalisation is on the cards then this example would argue to buy utilities would it not.

I personally think there’s very little chance of this happening outside of the railways and the jump to civil unrest and societal strains is a bit much. Times are hard but scenes at the airports over recent months show a population confident to spend on a holiday. I don’t think we’re quite at the stage where people prioritise this over their utility bills. The jobs market is very tight so changing or re-entering employment will help with the cost of living. Those hit hardest are on a fixed income or the poorest sadly.

The utilities will just be regulated to death to prevent this happening again - ie. the energy suppliers who effectively ran unhedged positions giving them one way risk reward won’t be allowed to etc.

My view is that we’ve just entered a moderate to harsh recession and this will alleviate some of the recent economic tensions - especially on the supply side.

I think you're right. Interest rates are still on the rise but the heat in the inflation we see presently could be snuffed out medium term by seriously rising energy prices, increased taxation and a consumer led recession is already baked in. In my opinion, of course.

MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2288
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 553 times
Been thanked: 1115 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518476

Postby MrFoolish » July 31st, 2022, 9:08 am

There's no way Liz Truss is going to nationalise utility companies. For one thing, she's trying to channel Thatcher, who was very much into the private sector running everything. Also, the Tories have already given up trying to win the next election on competence (which they severely lack) - so are gambling on dividing the country through Brexit jingoism, strikes and culture wars, and seeing how the dice land. In the unlikely event that people stop paying their utility bills, Truss will try blaming it on the opposition and the unions (and probably the EU).

GoSeigen
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4350
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:14 pm
Has thanked: 1590 times
Been thanked: 1579 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518514

Postby GoSeigen » July 31st, 2022, 11:40 am

MrFoolish wrote:There's no way Liz Truss is going to nationalise utility companies. For one thing, she's trying to channel Thatcher, who was very much into the private sector running everything.

No, they are giving lipservice to channelling Thatcher. It's a pose and nothing more. Thatcher would turn in her grave at what she/the tories are doing. MT believed in the single market for example and could see the huge advantages it gave for our trade. She even was in favour of free movement of people and I think had an appreciation of the awful consequences of WW2 which I think is lost on those claiming to be her followers.
Also, the Tories have already given up trying to win the next election on competence (which they severely lack)

Agree, and their sheer incompetence ought to be a embarrassment to all who voted for them, but nationalisation will have little to do with competence, it will be dictated by economic conditions IMO, no matter who is in power.
- so are gambling on dividing the country through Brexit jingoism, strikes and culture wars, and seeing how the dice land. In the unlikely event that people stop paying their utility bills, Truss will try blaming it on the opposition and the unions (and probably the EU).


Hard to disagree here...

GS

absolutezero
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1505
Joined: November 17th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 542 times
Been thanked: 653 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518530

Postby absolutezero » July 31st, 2022, 12:29 pm

Anyway. Back on topic

Just to add to the utility fun.

Ofwat has warned that water companies' high levels of debt could cause problems.
Looking to possibly restrict dividend payments.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/debt-ridden-water-giants-at-risk-from-rate-rises-bf2rngmt6

All in all, utilities are not looking too good.

As for the idea that Liz Truss won't nationalise anything.... If the alternative is civil unrest then they would nationalise your grandma.

CryptoPlankton
Lemon Slice
Posts: 786
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:12 pm
Has thanked: 1544 times
Been thanked: 873 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518539

Postby CryptoPlankton » July 31st, 2022, 1:23 pm

I haven't sold my utility shares. I hold National Grid and United Utilities - both have nearly double-bagged since purchase, and increased their dividends every year. I am certainly not going to exit two productive positions purely on speculation. I seem to remember a similar panic and partial exodus at the prospect of a Corbyn government not that long ago.

Obviously, if there are concrete signs of change in the future then I will reconsider (though it's probably not worth worrying about, as apparently Nostradamus has predicted WW3 for next year...).

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4814
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 606 times
Been thanked: 2675 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518543

Postby scrumpyjack » July 31st, 2022, 1:49 pm

absolutezero wrote:Anyway. Back on topic

Just to add to the utility fun.

Ofwat has warned that water companies' high levels of debt could cause problems.
Looking to possibly restrict dividend payments.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/debt-ridden-water-giants-at-risk-from-rate-rises-bf2rngmt6

All in all, utilities are not looking too good.

As for the idea that Liz Truss won't nationalise anything.... If the alternative is civil unrest then they would nationalise your grandma.


Nationalising doesn't solve anything, it just makes change and efficiency more difficult. If necessary there will be further subsidies and fixes to cut energy costs. They are already doling out £400 each and she has said, I think, that they will abolish the green levies loaded on electricity prices. Next step abolish VAT on domestic energy etc. IF the energy spike is temporary, which I think it is, they can subsidise through the temporary highs until prices revert to nearer the historic levels. Whatever happens Utilities will be a political football which is one reason I have never invested in them

absolutezero
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1505
Joined: November 17th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 542 times
Been thanked: 653 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518551

Postby absolutezero » July 31st, 2022, 2:17 pm

CryptoPlankton wrote:I haven't sold my utility shares. I hold National Grid and United Utilities - both have nearly double-bagged since purchase, and increased their dividends every year. I am certainly not going to exit two productive positions purely on speculation. I seem to remember a similar panic and partial exodus at the prospect of a Corbyn government not that long ago.

Obviously, if there are concrete signs of change in the future then I will reconsider (though it's probably not worth worrying about, as apparently Nostradamus has predicted WW3 for next year...).

We're in danger of getting into the blinkered HYP mentality of "do nothing" here.
The concrete signs are already there if you want to see them.

It seems almost certain that energy prices are going to be in the £4,000 a year area later this year.
That means there is a high likelihood of large numbers of customers being unable (not unwilling) to pay bills.
That will likely lead to State intervention.
That will affect the companies and therefore the share price.
In extremis, this could involve nationalisation or a big dilution - which I think is a substantial risk.
You evidently don't. It takes two sides to make a market after all.

Forget the comparison with Nostradamus. That's just bunkum and dare I suggest an attempt at discrediting my central idea.
What you seem to be forgetting is that the near future IS predictable to some extent.

Your doing nothing (holding) is just as much a prediction as my doing something (selling).

I held on to my utility shares as the likelihood of Johnson winning the election was (in my analysis) about 95%.
Had that been my outlook for Corbyn then I would have binned them.

Would you have held on if it looked like Corbyn was going to win the election?

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518582

Postby XFool » July 31st, 2022, 5:04 pm

Octopus Energy asks government for £1bn to buy Bulb

BBC News

Octopus Energy is seeking £1bn in taxpayer funding to take over collapsed rival Bulb from the UK government.

"Bulb, which went bust last November, is currently being run by the state through the energy regulator Ofgem.

The £1bn funding is part of a package being discussed where Octopus would also pay more than £100m for Bulb's customers as well as entering a profit-sharing deal with the government.

The government declined to comment "due to commercial sensitivity".

The state bailout of Bulb is already expected to cost the taxpayer around £2bn by next year. But the Office for Budget Responsibility, the government's independent forecaster, said in March: "Given the volatility in global energy markets, there remains uncertainty around the final cost."
"

CryptoPlankton
Lemon Slice
Posts: 786
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:12 pm
Has thanked: 1544 times
Been thanked: 873 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518591

Postby CryptoPlankton » July 31st, 2022, 5:24 pm

absolutezero wrote:We're in danger of getting into the blinkered HYP mentality of "do nothing" here.

You may be, I don't run a HYP. But what I do try to do is generally hold investments for the long-term, and avoid overtrading and trying to second guess how the future will pan out.
absolutezero wrote:The concrete signs are already there if you want to see them.
It seems almost certain that energy prices are going to be in the £4,000 a year area later this year.
That means there is a high likelihood of large numbers of customers being unable (not unwilling) to pay bills.
That will likely lead to State intervention.
That will affect the companies and therefore the share price.
In extremis, this could involve nationalisation

"seems", "likelihood", "likely", "in extremis" and "could" aren't concrete enough for me.
absolutezero wrote:It takes two sides to make a market after all.

Well, there are buyers and sellers, but also those that chose to avoid giving the brokers and taxman any more than they feel is necessary by being neither until they see a really compelling reason.
absolutezero wrote:Your doing nothing (holding) is just as much a prediction as my doing something (selling).

Funny, I thought I was just doing nothing!
absolutezero wrote:Would you have held on if it looked like Corbyn was going to win the election?

I can't say, but it would certainly have made me think about my position.

I didn't mean to try to discredit your thinking, which may well prove to be prescient. It's just my view that it's a little early to be writing off the utilities and giving up on investments that continue to deliver a satisfactory performance.

absolutezero
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1505
Joined: November 17th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 542 times
Been thanked: 653 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518611

Postby absolutezero » July 31st, 2022, 6:15 pm

CryptoPlankton wrote:
absolutezero wrote:We're in danger of getting into the blinkered HYP mentality of "do nothing" here.

You may be, I don't run a HYP. But what I do try to do is generally hold investments for the long-term, and avoid overtrading and trying to second guess how the future will pan out.
absolutezero wrote:The concrete signs are already there if you want to see them.
It seems almost certain that energy prices are going to be in the £4,000 a year area later this year.
That means there is a high likelihood of large numbers of customers being unable (not unwilling) to pay bills.
That will likely lead to State intervention.
That will affect the companies and therefore the share price.
In extremis, this could involve nationalisation

"seems", "likelihood", "likely", "in extremis" and "could" aren't concrete enough for me.
absolutezero wrote:It takes two sides to make a market after all.

Well, there are buyers and sellers, but also those that chose to avoid giving the brokers and taxman any more than they feel is necessary by being neither until they see a really compelling reason.
absolutezero wrote:Your doing nothing (holding) is just as much a prediction as my doing something (selling).

Funny, I thought I was just doing nothing!
absolutezero wrote:Would you have held on if it looked like Corbyn was going to win the election?

I can't say, but it would certainly have made me think about my position.

I didn't mean to try to discredit your thinking, which may well prove to be prescient. It's just my view that it's a little early to be writing off the utilities and giving up on investments that continue to deliver a satisfactory performance.

An interesting discussion! Thanks for the detailed response.
Raises a few thought processes in my head.

1. If "seems", "likelihood", "likely", "in extremis" and "could" aren't concrete enough for you then what is and what are you doing investing your money in the market in the first place?
There's nothing concrete in this game.
Investing is a risk/probability gig.
If you want certainties you would leave it in a savings account (where you are certain to lose the lot to inflation over time).

2. Doing nothing *is* doing something. There is no such thing as "doing nothing".
You have assessed the risk (I hope - or not assessed the risk - whichever one is appropriate) and decided to hold on.
Whether you realise it or not, that is a decision.

3. You are "trying to second guess how the future will pan out" because you buy individual companies.
You buy them because you think they will do well - or else you wouldn't buy them.
If you weren't trying to second guess the market, then the logical thing to do would be to buy a global tracker and let the market do its thing rather than taking punts on individual companies.

4. You say the utilities are 'satisfactory'.
Why settle for satisfactory when an S&P 500 or global tracker knocks the utes into a cocked hat?

5. Those who invested in Carillion, RBS and Lloyds feature heavily in "those that chose to avoid giving the brokers and taxman any more than they feel is necessary".
When was 'too early' to consider pulling the trigger on CLLN? The day after it collapsed - despite the warning signs being there?
There is minimising costs and then there is minimising the size of your portfolio!

CryptoPlankton
Lemon Slice
Posts: 786
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:12 pm
Has thanked: 1544 times
Been thanked: 873 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518632

Postby CryptoPlankton » July 31st, 2022, 8:08 pm

absolutezero wrote:1.If "seems", "likelihood", "likely", "in extremis" and "could" aren't concrete enough for you then what is and what are you doing investing your money in the market in the first place?
There's nothing concrete in this game.
Investing is a risk/probability gig.
If you want certainties you would leave it in a savings account (where you are certain to lose the lot to inflation over time).

Seriously? I'm not going to waste my time on this...
absolutezero wrote:2. Doing nothing *is* doing something. There is no such thing as "doing nothing".
You have assessed the risk (I hope - or not assessed the risk - whichever one is appropriate) and decided to hold on.
Whether you realise it or not, that is a decision.

Sorry, your point evades me.
absolutezero wrote:1. You are "trying to second guess how the future will pan out" because you buy individual companies.
You buy them because you think they will do well - or else you wouldn't buy them.
If you weren't trying to second guess the market, then the logical thing to do would be to buy a global tracker and let the market do its thing rather than taking punts on individual companies.

This is getting silly...
absolutezero wrote:4. You say the utilities are 'satisfactory'.
Why settle for satisfactory when an S&P 500 or global tracker knocks the utes into a cocked hat?

Satisfactory is satisfactory - though you will always be able to pick something better with hindsight and over a chosen period (your comparators lag this year and at other times in the past). So what?

absolutezero wrote:Those who invested in Carillion, RBS and Lloyds feature heavily in "those that chose to avoid giving the brokers and taxman any more than they feel is necessary".
When was 'too early' to consider pulling the trigger on CLLN? The day after it collapsed - despite the warning signs being there?
There is minimising costs and then there is minimising the size of your portfolio!

You will have to ask those investors.

TBH, I think (hope, for your sake) you are deliberately misconstruing my point and arguing for the sake of it. There is no benefit to anyone in continuing this, therefore I won't engage in further exchanges and return you to your previous status on my profile (I remember the reason now).

absolutezero
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1505
Joined: November 17th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 542 times
Been thanked: 653 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#518660

Postby absolutezero » July 31st, 2022, 9:28 pm

CryptoPlankton wrote:
absolutezero wrote:1.If "seems", "likelihood", "likely", "in extremis" and "could" aren't concrete enough for you then what is and what are you doing investing your money in the market in the first place?
There's nothing concrete in this game.
Investing is a risk/probability gig.
If you want certainties you would leave it in a savings account (where you are certain to lose the lot to inflation over time).

Seriously? I'm not going to waste my time on this...
absolutezero wrote:2. Doing nothing *is* doing something. There is no such thing as "doing nothing".
You have assessed the risk (I hope - or not assessed the risk - whichever one is appropriate) and decided to hold on.
Whether you realise it or not, that is a decision.

Sorry, your point evades me.
absolutezero wrote:1. You are "trying to second guess how the future will pan out" because you buy individual companies.
You buy them because you think they will do well - or else you wouldn't buy them.
If you weren't trying to second guess the market, then the logical thing to do would be to buy a global tracker and let the market do its thing rather than taking punts on individual companies.

This is getting silly...
absolutezero wrote:4. You say the utilities are 'satisfactory'.
Why settle for satisfactory when an S&P 500 or global tracker knocks the utes into a cocked hat?

Satisfactory is satisfactory - though you will always be able to pick something better with hindsight and over a chosen period (your comparators lag this year and at other times in the past). So what?

absolutezero wrote:Those who invested in Carillion, RBS and Lloyds feature heavily in "those that chose to avoid giving the brokers and taxman any more than they feel is necessary".
When was 'too early' to consider pulling the trigger on CLLN? The day after it collapsed - despite the warning signs being there?
There is minimising costs and then there is minimising the size of your portfolio!

You will have to ask those investors.

TBH, I think (hope, for your sake) you are deliberately misconstruing my point and arguing for the sake of it. There is no benefit to anyone in continuing this, therefore I won't engage in further exchanges and return you to your previous status on my profile (I remember the reason now).

Thanks for the debate...

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3606
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 550 times
Been thanked: 1586 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#527588

Postby gryffron » September 5th, 2022, 11:32 am

scrumpyjack wrote:she has said, I think, that they will abolish the green levies loaded on electricity prices.

Given that (all forms of?) green energy, and even nuclear, are fantastically profitable at current electricity prices, it's very hard to see why we need any subsidies anyway.

Gryff

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#527595

Postby Dod101 » September 5th, 2022, 12:01 pm

gryffron wrote:
scrumpyjack wrote:she has said, I think, that they will abolish the green levies loaded on electricity prices.

Given that (all forms of?) green energy, and even nuclear, are fantastically profitable at current electricity prices, it's very hard to see why we need any subsidies anyway.

Gryff


From what I gather a) the Green Levies are not very significant components of the cost of electricity or gas so will not make much difference, although every little helps, and b) the later green energy generators do not benefit from the very high prices which the older generators do.

Dod

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3606
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 550 times
Been thanked: 1586 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#527602

Postby gryffron » September 5th, 2022, 12:14 pm

Dod101 wrote:From what I gather a) the Green Levies are not very significant components of the cost of electricity or gas so will not make much difference

Well, not now they’re not. They were quite significant a year ago. There can’t be many suppliers with guaranteed prices higher than current market price. Even my 2011 solar panels are going to be earning less than the market rate by October.

Gryff

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: I have sold my utility shares

#527612

Postby Dod101 » September 5th, 2022, 12:48 pm

gryffron wrote:
Dod101 wrote:From what I gather a) the Green Levies are not very significant components of the cost of electricity or gas so will not make much difference

Well, not now they’re not. They were quite significant a year ago. There can’t be many suppliers with guaranteed prices higher than current market price. Even my 2011 solar panels are going to be earning less than the market rate by October.

Gryff


Well it is now we are talking about, not a year ago. I bet we all wish we could tun the clock back.

I think there are probably no suppliers with guaranteed prices higher than the current market price and I was not suggesting there are. What I am saying is that there are quite a lot of suppliers who are getting prices lower than the current market price because of the Contracts for Difference that they are under. I wish you no illwill but I am glad that you are to be deprived of some of the windfall profit from your solar panels.

Dod


Return to “The Economy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests