Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Anonymous,johnhemming,Anonymous,Rhyd6,dredd0, for Donating to support the site

A question of grammar...

Mind that apostrophe.
richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2111
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 419 times
Been thanked: 392 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301704

Postby richfool » April 19th, 2020, 9:46 am

Where I sometimes have to think is if I am writing a list of things and some of those things go in pairs and involve the word "and".

For example: I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread(,) and toast and marmalade. So I would then tend to use "&" for the "and" within the pairs of items. So I would probably write the list as: I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs & bacon, jam & bread(,) and toast & marmalade. The comma before the final "and" in the listed pairs in that context I would view as optional. (Though in a normal list of single items I would not include a comma before the final "and").

richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2111
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 419 times
Been thanked: 392 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301707

Postby richfool » April 19th, 2020, 10:14 am

I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs & bacon, jam & bread and toast & marmalade, and of course, the usual tea and coffee.

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1149
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 191 times
Been thanked: 293 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301715

Postby jfgw » April 19th, 2020, 10:58 am

richfool wrote:I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs & bacon, jam & bread and toast & marmalade, and of course, the usual tea and coffee.


I would normally avoid ampersands in anything remotely formal where other people might read it. Exceptions would include where the ampersand is part of a business name or is otherwise considered normal, for example, B&Q and A&E.

"I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."

Note that I have added a comma after "bread" (I'm sure you meant one to be there).

I have also moved the comma after "marmalade" so as to parenthesise "of course". When I was at school (a long time ago!), I was taught that one should be able to remove the text between any two commas and the sentence should still be gramatically correct. I am not convinced that it always works that way but it is something I aim for.


Julian F. G. W.

UncleEbenezer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4631
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 538 times
Been thanked: 867 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301720

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 19th, 2020, 11:17 am

jfgw wrote:"I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."

Maybe "I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade, and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."

Hmm, striking out a comma doesn't really work.

for example, B&Q and A&E.

Good to see you have those in their natural order. ;)

kempiejon
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1491
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 10:30 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301732

Postby kempiejon » April 19th, 2020, 11:54 am

I am reminded of the poorly spaced pub sign.
THE BULL   AND   GATE 


The gaps between bull and and and and and gate is too big

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1149
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 191 times
Been thanked: 293 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301745

Postby jfgw » April 19th, 2020, 12:38 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:"I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade, and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."


This sentence needs further refinement. I assume that the author does not eat tea and coffee.

I, personally, would use the word "or" at least twice but it is not my place to judge the eating and drinking habits of others however gluttonous they may be.


Julian F. G. W.

UncleEbenezer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4631
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 538 times
Been thanked: 867 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301749

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 19th, 2020, 12:57 pm

kempiejon wrote:I am reminded of the poorly spaced pub sign.
THE BULL   AND   GATE 

The gaps between bull and and and and and gate isare too big.

How about the spaces between and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and there?

UncleEbenezer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4631
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 538 times
Been thanked: 867 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#301752

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 19th, 2020, 1:11 pm

jfgw wrote:This sentence needs further refinement. I assume that the author does not eat tea and coffee.

That seems rash. Coffee is a regular ingredient in Italian cuisine, I've eaten it many times. These days I can even buy chocolate-coated coffee beans that serve a similar role to after-dinner mints. Tea is a herb that might perchance find a place in a recipe, albeit not one familiar to you or me.

Now you've set me thinking. Maybe a hint of tea would've gone well alongside the lemon in last night's quinoa? Perhaps something smoky like an oolong?

Gaggsy
Lemon Slice
Posts: 421
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 170 times
Been thanked: 183 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#304102

Postby Gaggsy » April 29th, 2020, 12:29 pm

Surely the correct food items are 'bacon and eggs' and 'bread and jam'. There's a natural order to these things.
'Toast and marmalade' sounds right. Tea AND coffee? Surely it's one or the other but not both!

UncleEbenezer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4631
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 538 times
Been thanked: 867 times

Re: A question of grammar...

#304127

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 29th, 2020, 1:35 pm

Gaggsy wrote: Tea AND coffee? Surely it's one or the other but not both!


Only if you never have dinner guests.


Return to “Pedants' Place”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest