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Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 9:46 am
by richfool
Where I sometimes have to think is if I am writing a list of things and some of those things go in pairs and involve the word "and".
For example: I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread(,) and toast and marmalade. So I would then tend to use "&" for the "and" within the pairs of items. So I would probably write the list as: I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs & bacon, jam & bread(,) and toast & marmalade. The comma before the final "and" in the listed pairs in that context I would view as optional. (Though in a normal list of single items I would not include a comma before the final "and").
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 10:14 am
by richfool
I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs & bacon, jam & bread and toast & marmalade, and of course, the usual tea and coffee.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 10:58 am
by jfgw
richfool wrote:I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs & bacon, jam & bread and toast & marmalade, and of course, the usual tea and coffee.
I would normally avoid ampersands in anything remotely formal where other people might read it. Exceptions would include where the ampersand is part of a business name or is otherwise considered normal, for example, B&Q and A&E.
"I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."
Note that I have added a comma after "bread" (I'm sure you meant one to be there).
I have also moved the comma after "marmalade" so as to parenthesise "of course". When I was at school (a long time ago!), I was taught that one should be able to remove the text between any two commas and the sentence should still be gramatically correct. I am not convinced that it always works that way but it is something I aim for.
Julian F. G. W.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 11:17 am
by UncleEbenezer
jfgw wrote:"I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."
Maybe "I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread,
and toast and marmalade
, and
, of course
, the usual tea and coffee."
Hmm, striking out a comma doesn't really work.
for example, B&Q and A&E.
Good to see you have those in their natural order.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 11:54 am
by kempiejon
I am reminded of the poorly spaced pub sign.
THE BULL AND GATE
The gaps between bull and and and and and gate is too big
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 12:38 pm
by jfgw
UncleEbenezer wrote:"I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade, and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."
This sentence needs further refinement. I assume that the author does not
eat tea and coffee.
I, personally, would use the word "or" at least twice but it is not my place to judge the eating and drinking habits of others however gluttonous they may be.
Julian F. G. W.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 12:57 pm
by UncleEbenezer
kempiejon wrote:I am reminded of the poorly spaced pub sign.
THE BULL AND GATE
The gaps between bull and and and and and gate isare too big.
How about the spaces between and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and there?
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 19th, 2020, 1:11 pm
by UncleEbenezer
jfgw wrote:This sentence needs further refinement. I assume that the author does not eat tea and coffee.
That seems rash. Coffee is a regular ingredient in Italian cuisine, I've eaten it many times. These days I can even buy chocolate-coated coffee beans that serve a similar role to after-dinner mints. Tea is a herb that might perchance find a place in a recipe, albeit not one familiar to you or me.
Now you've set me thinking. Maybe a hint of tea would've gone well alongside the lemon in last night's quinoa? Perhaps something smoky like an oolong?
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 29th, 2020, 12:29 pm
by Gaggsy
Surely the correct food items are 'bacon and eggs' and 'bread and jam'. There's a natural order to these things.
'Toast and marmalade' sounds right. Tea AND coffee? Surely it's one or the other but not both!
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: April 29th, 2020, 1:35 pm
by UncleEbenezer
Gaggsy wrote: Tea AND coffee? Surely it's one or the other but not both!
Only if you never have dinner guests.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: June 6th, 2020, 9:44 am
by stewamax
Gaggsy wrote:Tea AND coffee? Surely it's one or the other but not both!
When Parson James Woodforde (1740–1803) attended the more genteel receptions such as those given by his bishop, he commented that dishes of tea and coffee were offered. Never (from memory) cups - always dishes. But (a bit off-thread...) what exactly was
dish of tea?
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: June 6th, 2020, 10:04 am
by GrahamPlatt
stewamax wrote:When Parson James Woodforde (1740–1803) attended the more genteel receptions such as those given by his bishop, he commented that dishes of tea and coffee were offered. Never (from memory) cups - always dishes. But (a bit off-thread...) what exactly was dish of tea?
Possibly a small bowl, like a cup without a handle. In the French style.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: June 6th, 2020, 7:43 pm
by stewamax
Painful - Woodforde hated the French, especially their cooking!
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: June 19th, 2020, 4:49 pm
by Gengulphus
jfgw wrote:UncleEbenezer wrote:"I like to eat cereal, porridge, eggs and bacon, jam and bread, and toast and marmalade, and, of course, the usual tea and coffee."
This sentence needs further refinement. I assume that the author does not
eat tea and coffee.
I, personally, would use the word "or" at least twice but it is not my place to judge the eating and drinking habits of others however gluttonous they may be.
Well, I can truthfully say that I like to eat stewed prunes, muesli with soft fruit from my garden, blueberry wheats with sliced banana, porridge, bacon and eggs, scrambled eggs with smoked salmon, bread and jam, toast and marmalade, and pancakes with maple syrup, and to drink orange juice, apple juice, tea and coffee.
Of course, I don't consume them all at the same breakfast!
Gengulphus
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: October 4th, 2020, 9:50 pm
by quelquod
kempiejon wrote:I am reminded of the poorly spaced pub sign.
THE BULL AND GATE
The gaps between bull and and and and and gate is too big
And one from my schooldays:
Tom, where Jack had had had had had had had; had had had had the teacher’s approval.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: October 4th, 2020, 10:17 pm
by GrahamPlatt
quelquod wrote:And one from my schooldays:
Tom, where Jack had had had had had had had; had had had had the teacher’s approval.
Tom, where Jack had had “had”, had had “had had”; “had had” had had the teacher’s approval.
It’s the way you tel ‘em.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: October 4th, 2020, 11:05 pm
by Mike4
kempiejon wrote:I am reminded of the poorly spaced pub sign.
THE BULL AND GATE
The gaps between bull and and and and and gate
is too big
Surely the gaps ARE too big.
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: October 4th, 2020, 11:57 pm
by UncleEbenezer
Gaggsy wrote:Tea AND coffee? Surely it's one or the other but not both!
You haven't met my dad!
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: October 4th, 2020, 11:58 pm
by UncleEbenezer
Mike4 wrote:kempiejon wrote:I am reminded of the poorly spaced pub sign.
THE BULL AND GATE
The gaps between bull and and and and and gate
is too big
Surely the gaps ARE too big.
Thwack!
Re: A question of grammar...
Posted: October 5th, 2020, 9:31 am
by bungeejumper
UncleEbenezer wrote:Mike4 wrote:Surely the gaps ARE too big.
Thwack!
You'm too subtill, you clever boys what have been learned to write proper. Too clever for I, that's for sure.
Anyhow, best distance between bull and gate is aff a moile.
BJ