Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Nothing- just like the site

Grumpy Old Lemons Like You
dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#494363

Postby dealtn » April 14th, 2022, 5:07 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:You can view the lists for any Lemon. Just open their profile.

The most recent thanks are at the top of the list. Click on "for post" and it sends you to the post the thanks were for.

There might be other ways of course.

This was, of course, why the late great Gengulphus never thanked anyone. He had a big issue with the privacy aspects.

Scott.


I can quite understand. It might be the end of my reccing too.

NotSure
Lemon Slice
Posts: 916
Joined: February 5th, 2021, 4:45 pm
Has thanked: 679 times
Been thanked: 314 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#494388

Postby NotSure » April 14th, 2022, 7:32 pm

CryptoPlankton wrote:
The most prolific 38 members (0.58%) have posted more (i.e. > 50% of all posts ever made) than the rest of us put together. Not sure what that tells us, but I thought it was quite interesting!


Like wealth, posting appears to follow a Pareto distribution. It's certainly not 'normal' ;)

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18674
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6557 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#494390

Postby Lootman » April 14th, 2022, 7:39 pm

dealtn wrote:
swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:You can view the lists for any Lemon. Just open their profile.

The most recent thanks are at the top of the list. Click on "for post" and it sends you to the post the thanks were for.

There might be other ways of course.

This was, of course, why the late great Gengulphus never thanked anyone. He had a big issue with the privacy aspects.

I can quite understand. It might be the end of my reccing too.

Each to his own. Personally I do not feel any shame or guilt about the opinions or individuals I indicate support for, and I am happy to stand behind my record here.

NotSure wrote:
CryptoPlankton wrote:The most prolific 38 members (0.58%) have posted more (i.e. > 50% of all posts ever made) than the rest of us put together. Not sure what that tells us, but I thought it was quite interesting!

Like wealth, posting appears to follow a Pareto distribution. It's certainly not 'normal' ;)

I believe that it is fairly normal on social media (of which TLF is just one example) for a majority of the content to derive from a relatively small minority of the participants. Twitter might be another good example of that trend. Some users are prolific, many are occasional, most just lurk.

CliffEdge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1554
Joined: July 25th, 2018, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 452 times
Been thanked: 434 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#494483

Postby CliffEdge » April 15th, 2022, 11:20 am

Would it be possible to split unread posts into

1. Unread posts investment

2. Unread posts other

?

chas49
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1935
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:25 am
Has thanked: 216 times
Been thanked: 456 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#494523

Postby chas49 » April 15th, 2022, 2:30 pm

Lootman wrote:
tjh290633 wrote: I read all the posts on the Investors' Rouind Table forum because I moderate it.

Are TLF moderators supposed to read every post on the boards they moderate? If so that would imply there is no point in reporting any post, since you will see them anyway, and can act as appropriate.


Absolutely not!

We probably read more in the areas we moderate than those we don't - but there's no requirement to read everything.

Moderation is a balance between dealing with reports, and handling things we spot for ourselves.

(However, please don't take this reply as an invitation to discuss moderation here.)

roger4
Lemon Pip
Posts: 81
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:01 am
Has thanked: 266 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#495931

Postby roger4 » April 23rd, 2022, 6:40 am

Dod,

For a forum with nothing on it, the 5 pages your post attracted seems to be a bit of a contradiction.

If you are unhappy with it, why are you here?

Roger

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#495933

Postby Dod101 » April 23rd, 2022, 7:15 am

roger4 wrote:Dod,

For a forum with nothing on it, the 5 pages your post attracted seems to be a bit of a contradiction.

If you are unhappy with it, why are you here?

Roger


I am not unhappy with the site, but it seems to me to be a fact that there is a lot less on investment now than there used to be. This five pages of discussion is an indication of that, since people obviously have plenty of time to discuss this item. Anyway, as always I am learning.

Meanwhile happy St George's Day to all.

Dod

Itsallaguess
Lemon Half
Posts: 9129
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:16 pm
Has thanked: 4140 times
Been thanked: 10023 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515507

Postby Itsallaguess » July 19th, 2022, 7:01 am

Itsallaguess wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
There is no denying that we have a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people who contribute to this site on non financial matters and I would think that they very possibly attract people who might not otherwise come near the site if it were only financial/investment stuff. Then success breeds success, likely attracting more of.

The financial side then becomes less significant and we have the situation as it is today.


Ah, but the financial side becoming less significant is not the same as it dying.

You have given a reason why some non-financial type posters might come but not a reason why existing financial type posters might be leaving or posting less.


Because the regular tone of debate generated by the very heavy dominance of political arguments sadly turns the site into one where aggressive point-scoring one-upmanship is a much higher priority for those with the most to say on those political subjects, over and above the original remit of the site, which was primarily and originally a 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forum', and I think that's more or less where Dod came in with his opening post on this thread - it is simply not now 'what it says it is on the tin'....

The idea of broader topics shouldn't be a problem in theory, but when those broader topics become heavily dominated by aggressive point-scoring, and point-scoring posters who then dominate the site in those political areas, then there's a general bleed-over right across the tone of the site that's really quite difficult to miss, in my opinion, for those of us who have been here long enough to witness the transformation in tone of what used to feel like a much more welcoming 'finance-community' based forum....


I thought it was worth revisiting this thread with an update on the recent news that the USA Motley Fool site have now officially banned political posts on their discussion boards due to the regularly aggressive and divisive nature of those debates -

Dear Fellow [USA Motley] Fools,

This note is to let you know that, after much debate and discussion of the pros and cons among several community-focused Fools, we are formalizing a long-standing, yet not formally-stated, policy regarding our discussion boards. Posts specifically about politics, and especially partisan politics will no longer be welcome.

How a Culture Can Go Bad

The Motley Fool has long been proud of the friendliness and generally civil discourse found on our discussion boards. They’re a place where our members can talk with each other and with the analysts and advisors of our various newsletters on investing topics of mutual interest. We believe this community to be a competitive advantage for our business and it’s something that Motley Fool co-founders Tom and David Gardner both cherish.

However, there has long been one topic of conversation that can damage this welcoming environment: politics.

Political beliefs are often firmly held, and when they’re also closely and passionately held, an argument against them (or even an expression of an opposing view) can feel like an attack. The natural response often involves both defense to stop the attack and offense to lower the possibility of future attacks, even if “attack” was never the intention.

This behavior is worsened by an inescapable fact about our board system: It is entirely text-based. It can be difficult, if not downright impossible, to verbalize all the nuances that nonverbal communication can add to the words we speak: body language; facial expressions; even vocal pitch, intonation, and the speed and type of delivery. All of these add layers upon layers of meaning to the bare words being spoken. Yet, they are difficult or impossible to reproduce in mere words on a screen.

As a result, posts are often open to interpretation. And that’s a problem when we’re talking about passionately held beliefs. Investing discussions rarely get heated here, probably in part because Foolish investing means always being ready to learn and even admit we’re wrong -- we can’t afford to get too set in our ways, literally.

But political beliefs are inextricably tied to personal values, and that’s an entirely different kind of debate -- one frequently without conclusive outcomes. As a result, investing conversations can veer off into political arguments at the mere mention of a political figure, or a familiar epithet, or any of a number of other triggers.

When left unchecked, the whole purpose of a discussion board can become hijacked. And it’s not just the participants who suffer.


https://boards.fool.com/boards-no-politics-policy-35124372.aspx

I stand by my views quoted at the top of this post, and note with interest that the USA Motley Fool site mods and owners also agree with it, and that allowing such regular, divisive, partisan political debate basically poisons the original remit of what were originally supposed to be much more community-minded forums...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515515

Postby Dod101 » July 19th, 2022, 7:18 am

Thanks IAAG. That is a very interesting development. We can see by the number of posts on the Conservative party leadership contest for instance that people seem far more interested in these extraneous matters than commenting on investment matters. I do not see that we have anything like reached the stage that any subject needs to be banned but I would like to see more discussion on investing I must say. That I suspect is a forlorn hope. My feelings and views have no changed since my opening post on this thread.

Dod

AsleepInYorkshire
Lemon Half
Posts: 7383
Joined: February 7th, 2017, 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 10514 times
Been thanked: 4659 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515536

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 19th, 2022, 8:54 am

Dod101 wrote:Thanks IAAG. That is a very interesting development. We can see by the number of posts on the Conservative party leadership contest for instance that people seem far more interested in these extraneous matters than commenting on investment matters. I do not see that we have anything like reached the stage that any subject needs to be banned but I would like to see more discussion on investing I must say. That I suspect is a forlorn hope. My feelings and views have no changed since my opening post on this thread.

Dod

Hi Dod,

I hope you're well. I've often found that when I put investment posts up they get no response, albeit my questions are always answered and I get differing opinions which helps me to understand a wider perspective at times. I don't expect everyone to respond to my investment posts. Often I'm talking aloud. For the most I've found great support and we have some amongst us who's knowledge of investing is just superb. I'm not quite in that category :lol:

May I note please that I am not a Conservative. I don't vote Labour and never have. The last time I read the manifesto's of the parties I was voting for I fell into the Libdems category more than any other. That didn't prevent me from respecting Labour or Conservative views or ideas. When Boris Johnson was elected I did say on these boards we were going to have some fun. And I think I can safely say we have. Not everything he's done has been wrong but pinning his wilder behaviours down has been akin to pinning jelly to a wall. Recently Rachel Reeve has come onto my radar as she seems highly intelligent and able to apply that virtually off the cuff. So my view of politics isn't entrenched. Or at least I don't think it is. I have opinions and I share them. I certainly don't object to others opinions, but sometimes find negativity difficult to deal with. Kemi Badenoch has also said some extremely good things and I did find my British need to support the underdog coming out for Tugendhat. I don't think my views are being thrust upon others although as I've mentioned I get irked with negative comments. The latter is my issue.

However, as you and IAAG point out it's always good to hear others thoughts and opinions, if for no other reason than to stop reading certain boards and perhaps focus on the areas of the site which we each find beneficial.

Take care

AiY(D)

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10689
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 2964 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515579

Postby UncleEbenezer » July 19th, 2022, 10:40 am

Dod101 wrote: but I would like to see more discussion on investing I must say.

Dod

Feel free to go ahead.

I expect I speak for most on this site who post on both investing and non-investing subjects, when I point out that that I post on any of those subjects as and when I have something to say. What I have to say ranges from the absolutely serious to light-hearted banter, just like real life.

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515595

Postby Dod101 » July 19th, 2022, 11:27 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Dod101 wrote: but I would like to see more discussion on investing I must say.

Dod

Feel free to go ahead.

I expect I speak for most on this site who post on both investing and non-investing subjects, when I point out that that I post on any of those subjects as and when I have something to say. What I have to say ranges from the absolutely serious to light-hearted banter, just like real life.


Indeed. I do go ahead from time to time.

Dod

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515611

Postby XFool » July 19th, 2022, 12:25 pm

Dod101 wrote:Thanks IAAG. That is a very interesting development. We can see by the number of posts on the Conservative party leadership contest for instance that people seem far more interested in these extraneous matters than commenting on investment matters. I do not see that we have anything like reached the stage that any subject needs to be banned but I would like to see more discussion on investing I must say. That I suspect is a forlorn hope. My feelings and views have no changed since my opening post on this thread.

I believe this recurring topic to be based on false arguments.

The Conservative Party Leadership Election thread is on the Current Affairs & News board. i.e. It is about matters of current interest that are in the public eye. Of course there is a lot of "interest" on this and therefore posts on the subject. What would anyone expect?

As to "investment matters", what is there new to say? The Hi Yield crowd are doubtless still debating that to death, but not everyone is a Hi Yield investor. If any of the complaining investors here have anything interesting to post on the subject, why aren't they posting it rather than complaining on here?

It is very simple: TLF currently has boards on Investment Matters & Other Subjects. It is entirely up to the people who run the site to decide if all non-financial boards, or a subset of them, are closed.

I would though predict that if TLF changes to a purely financial site it will be very much reduced in activity - which might suit some people - and likely it wouldn't be around for that much longer.

WRT the USA Fool site, while unaware of the detailed reasons for TMF's decision one can easily imagine it being related to the ongoing Culture Wars in the US. Perhaps we can avoid that here in the UK, or at least on TLF?

On that matter I would like to air my own beef! The manner in which some posters will crash any discussion, whatever its nature, with their own political and ideological baggage. Now, if that could be avoided on TLF, that would certainly be an improvement. IMO :)

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515615

Postby XFool » July 19th, 2022, 12:35 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:I expect I speak for most on this site who post on both investing and non-investing subjects, when I point out that that I post on any of those subjects as and when I have something to say. What I have to say ranges from the absolutely serious to light-hearted banter, just like real life.

"light-hearted banter" - There's a problem area right away!

1. Is it in the Humour zone? :)

2. One person's "light-hearted banter" is another person's personal attack :?:

Just like real life? ;)

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515642

Postby Dod101 » July 19th, 2022, 1:42 pm

XFool wrote:
Dod101 wrote:Thanks IAAG. That is a very interesting development. We can see by the number of posts on the Conservative party leadership contest for instance that people seem far more interested in these extraneous matters than commenting on investment matters. I do not see that we have anything like reached the stage that any subject needs to be banned but I would like to see more discussion on investing I must say. That I suspect is a forlorn hope. My feelings and views have no changed since my opening post on this thread.

I believe this recurring topic to be based on false arguments.

The Conservative Party Leadership Election thread is on the Current Affairs & News board. i.e. It is about matters of current interest that are in the public eye. Of course there is a lot of "interest" on this and therefore posts on the subject. What would anyone expect?

As to "investment matters", what is there new to say? The Hi Yield crowd are doubtless still debating that to death, but not everyone is a Hi Yield investor. If any of the complaining investors here have anything interesting to post on the subject, why aren't they posting it rather than complaining on here?

It is very simple: TLF currently has boards on Investment Matters & Other Subjects. It is entirely up to the people who run the site to decide if all non-financial boards, or a subset of them, are closed.

I would though predict that if TLF changes to a purely financial site it will be very much reduced in activity - which might suit some people - and likely it wouldn't be around for that much longer.

WRT the USA Fool site, while unaware of the detailed reasons for TMF's decision one can easily imagine it being related to the ongoing Culture Wars in the US. Perhaps we can avoid that here in the UK, or at least on TLF?

On that matter I would like to air my own beef! The manner in which some posters will crash any discussion, whatever its nature, with their own political and ideological baggage. Now, if that could be avoided on TLF, that would certainly be an improvement. IMO :)


I don't disagree with any of that and I am sure the owners will be happy with the extra traffic engendered by the non financial boards. I am certainly not advocating that they be closed; that is apart from anything else, not for a member to get involved with. I just generally feel that it is a shame that we cannot get more interest in financial matters, for my own benefit as much as anyone elses'.

Dod

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18674
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6557 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#515652

Postby Lootman » July 19th, 2022, 2:28 pm

Dod101 wrote:I am sure the owners will be happy with the extra traffic engendered by the non financial boards. I am certainly not advocating that they be closed; that is apart from anything else, not for a member to get involved with. I just generally feel that it is a shame that we cannot get more interest in financial matters, for my own benefit as much as anyone elses'.

TMF was definitely interested in generating traffic and views, as they believed that would translate into people buying TMF products and services. At some point (2016) they evidently decided that wasn't working. Perhaps it would have worked if those products and services had been more attractive. Personally I have never looked at TMF since that happened.

Whether TLF's co-founders have an interest in the site becoming more popular is something only they can answer. I presume that would come with an increase in work and problems for them. And as far as I know they don't make any money from TLF but rather do this for the good of the community. As an aside I don't see much if any investment commentary from the co-founders so perhaps that implies that the site is seen by them as more than just an investment site?

Some time ago I looked at the profiles of a few Lemons who regularly post to CAN (and PD before it). A couple of them showed that 80% of more of their posts were to those boards, indicating that discussing politics was their predominant activity here. I do wonder why people would choose TLF as a forum for advancing their political views when there are so many other places designed to do that and only that. For the record TLF is the only "social media" site I look at or comment on, other than a couple of specialist aviation blogs.

SalvorHardin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2048
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:32 am
Has thanked: 5295 times
Been thanked: 2465 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#535883

Postby SalvorHardin » October 8th, 2022, 1:57 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:I thought it was worth revisiting this thread with an update on the recent news that the USA Motley Fool site have now officially banned political posts on their discussion boards due to the regularly aggressive and divisive nature of those debates -

[i]Dear Fellow [USA Motley] Fools,

This note is to let you know that, after much debate and discussion of the pros and cons among several community-focused Fools, we are formalizing a long-standing, yet not formally-stated, policy regarding our discussion boards. Posts specifically about politics, and especially partisan politics will no longer be welcome.

Another update. The American Motley Fool went one step further a few days ago by shutting down the financial discussion boards, which were still using the same layout as TMF UK used before it shut its boards.

There is a replacement, but it's somewhat lacking (that's me being very polite). It relies on searching for "tags" which people attach to their posts, rather than putting posts in boards and subdividing them by topic.

People who know way more than me about social media say that this is how lots of social media sites and apps use tags to co-ordinate users' posts. A few have claimed that it's an improvement but I tried for a bit and it's like knitting fog. The number of posts has dropped dramatically. IMHO yet another example of Hutber's Law at work ("improvement means deterioration").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutber%27s_law

Many of the old timers have as a result given up on TMF and I suspect, like me, lots of them with paid subscriptions to TMF services will have cancelled them and told TMF what they think.

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10689
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 2964 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#535918

Postby UncleEbenezer » October 8th, 2022, 4:14 pm

SalvorHardin wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:I thought it was worth revisiting this thread with an update on the recent news that the USA Motley Fool site have now officially banned political posts on their discussion boards due to the regularly aggressive and divisive nature of those debates -

[i]Dear Fellow [USA Motley] Fools,

This note is to let you know that, after much debate and discussion of the pros and cons among several community-focused Fools, we are formalizing a long-standing, yet not formally-stated, policy regarding our discussion boards. Posts specifically about politics, and especially partisan politics will no longer be welcome.

Another update. The American Motley Fool went one step further a few days ago by shutting down the financial discussion boards, which were still using the same layout as TMF UK used before it shut its boards.

There is a replacement, but it's somewhat lacking (that's me being very polite). It relies on searching for "tags" which people attach to their posts, rather than putting posts in boards and subdividing them by topic.

People who know way more than me about social media say that this is how lots of social media sites and apps use tags to co-ordinate users' posts. A few have claimed that it's an improvement but I tried for a bit and it's like knitting fog. The number of posts has dropped dramatically. IMHO yet another example of Hutber's Law at work ("improvement means deterioration").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutber%27s_law

Many of the old timers have as a result given up on TMF and I suspect, like me, lots of them with paid subscriptions to TMF services will have cancelled them and told TMF what they think.


Tags? You've heard of #hashtags, right? I doubt there's a substantial difference.

They're usually used alongside other structuring elements. I implemented them in the mid-'90s alongside classic usenet-style threading - which is itself a distinct improvement on the flat threading offered by phpbb (the software used by lemonfool).

The drawback of tags is that they're wide open to spamming. Not an issue when my system was developed, but by the turn of the century, systems using it were in an arms race.

As for TMF losing users, that could be the kind of shakeout that happens with any change. Our hosts at lemonfool did a fantastic job bringing us on board and achieved something pretty exceptional, no doubt helped by TMF's abrupt action and by NOT being the same organisation imposing change on its community. All the goodwill, none of the blame.

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#535919

Postby XFool » October 8th, 2022, 4:26 pm

FWIW I just tried to log on to TMF using my old TMF account details (which still worked last time I tried).

On the US TMF I got: "Access denied: Invalid Password"
On the UK TMF I got: "ERROR: Login failed. Check that you typed everything correctly."

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: Nothing- just like the site

#535921

Postby swill453 » October 8th, 2022, 4:35 pm

XFool wrote:FWIW I just tried to log on to TMF using my old TMF account details (which still worked last time I tried).

On the US TMF I got: "Access denied: Invalid Password"
On the UK TMF I got: "ERROR: Login failed. Check that you typed everything correctly."

My old login works fine at the old US boards, http://boards.fool.com, and the new one http://discussion.fool.com

Scott.


Return to “Bitter Lemons”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests