Nothing- just like the site

[mc2fool]

I think the investment side of the site is dying, because of all the non-finance postings.

I don't follow the reasoning there. Let's say it is indeed the case that the investment side of the site is dying: why would, say, the HYP community (to pick a particularly talkative lot, at least historically) post any less about HYP because other folks are chattering away, on totally separate boards, about Boris, covid, Ukraine, etc? That doesn't make sense to me.

Let's put it another way, do you think the investment side would undergo a revival if all of the non-finance boards were just split off to, say, stoozeschatboards.co.uk leaving only the finance boards on lemonfool.co.uk? If so, why? 'cos I can't see why it would have that effect.

[dealtn]

I think the investment side of the site is dying, because of all the non-finance postings.

I don't follow the reasoning there. Let's say it is indeed the case that the investment side of the site is dying: why would, say, the HYP community (to pick a particularly talkative lot, at least historically) post any less about HYP because other folks are chattering away, on totally separate boards, about Boris, covid, Ukraine, etc? That doesn't make sense to me.

Let's put it another way, do you think the investment side would undergo a revival if all of the non-finance boards were just split off to, say, stoozeschatboards.co.uk leaving only the finance boards on lemonfool.co.uk? If so, why? 'cos I can't see why it would have that effect.

Possibly at the margin depending how such users access the site. If they normally use "Quick links" and that route has a full page of "other" boards the illusion (and perhaps reality) is that there is nothing new to read and discuss on their favourite boards. That might lead to negative momentum in those boards and regular contributors there disengaging, and the negative feedback consequences additionally playing out to reinforce this.

[Dod101]

I think the investment side of the site is dying, because of all the non-finance postings.

I don't follow the reasoning there. Let's say it is indeed the case that the investment side of the site is dying: why would, say, the HYP community (to pick a particularly talkative lot, at least historically) post any less about HYP because other folks are chattering away, on totally separate boards, about Boris, covid, Ukraine, etc? That doesn't make sense to me.

Let's put it another way, do you think the investment side would undergo a revival if all of the non-finance boards were just split off to, say, stoozeschatboards.co.uk leaving only the finance boards on lemonfool.co.uk? If so, why? 'cos I can't see why it would have that effect.

To answer your question, quite possibly. There is no denying that we have a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people who contribute to this site on non financial matters and I would think that they very possibly attract people who might not otherwise come near the site if it were only financial/investment stuff. Then success breeds success, likely attracting more of. The financial side then becomes less significant and we have the situation as it is today.

Of course the owners want traffic and it cannot matter too much to them what attracts posters, although that will or may alter the ads content. I guess we who prefer the financial side will just need to accept that traffic, any traffic helps keep the site open but it is not particularly a site for 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums' although it claims that it is.

Dod

[mc2fool]

Possibly at the margin depending how such users access the site. If they normally use "Quick links" and that route has a full page of "other" boards the illusion (and perhaps reality) is that there is nothing new to read and discuss on their favourite boards. That might lead to negative momentum in those boards and regular contributors there disengaging, and the negative feedback consequences additionally playing out to reinforce this.

Hmmmm...ok, a maybe on that.

Let's say it is indeed the case that the investment side of the site is dying: why would, say, the HYP community (to pick a particularly talkative lot, at least historically) post any less about HYP because other folks are chattering away, on totally separate boards, about Boris, covid, Ukraine, etc? That doesn't make sense to me.

Let's put it another way, do you think the investment side would undergo a revival if all of the non-finance boards were just split off to, say, stoozeschatboards.co.uk leaving only the finance boards on lemonfool.co.uk? If so, why? 'cos I can't see why it would have that effect.

To answer your question, quite possibly. There is no denying that we have a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people who contribute to this site on non financial matters and I would think that they very possibly attract people who might not otherwise come near the site if it were only financial/investment stuff. Then success breeds success, likely attracting more of. The financial side then becomes less significant and we have the situation as it is today.

Ah, but the financial side becoming less significant is not the same as it dying. You have given a reason why some non-financial type posters might come but not a reason why existing financial type posters might be leaving or posting less.

I can understand if the claim is that TLF is attracting fewer new financial posters, as I can't see a reason why such folks would get to coming here in the first place, 'cos, as I said earlier, unlike the TMF boards, TLF is a stand-alone site. How do people even discover TLF? "Lucky" search?

Owners/Moderators: does phpBB give any (easy to get) useful stats-over-time? In particular, can you get a table and/or chart of activity (posts) in forums over time, so that we can see if the perception that the finance side is "dying" is true or not? If not a ready made way, could any of you knock up a custom mySql query to get that info?

(Yeah, I know we could get it by ploughing through the board listings, but that's a pretty long winded and tedious way...)

Here's a not too difficult to get stat: of the current 6589 members only 2732 (41%) have ever posted and only 1099 (17%) have posted 10 or more times.

[Dod101]

Thanks. Even the stats you have been able to provide are interesting. Be good to have a few more.

Dod

[AleisterCrowley]

Only 2 posters have >10,000 posts and one of them isn't you

[Cornytiv34]

My guess is that it is partly due to us all getting older, needs changing and perhaps having more time to spare. There is still a definite need for the initial advice I received for those starting out today.

My path TMF 2 years learning, 2 years starting investing with TMF “Dividend Income” guidance, regular investing in individual shares for 8 years learning much from TLF members.

Twelve years on I acknowledged my advancing years ( the risk of “falling off my perch”had increased and might cause problems for Mrs CT) so I switched to ITs to make it a lot easier. Still more knowledge gained from TLF members.

The problem is that we cannot completely isolate investment completely from national and international affairs, they are all somewhat intertwined.

Like Dod I have looked at new posts and lately seen three pages of items where there used to be one. It is no longer a quick glance , I pick those in which I am interested and get on with the day. When I have time to spare I will look at other non investment items that interest me.

I have found the wide depth of knowledge in that many have in other areas and life is amazing and have used their knowledge to advance mine regularly. Finding solutions to problems I have is very useful side of the site.

Comment has been made that TMF site was more investment oriented so why cannot the site be split into “Investment”and “Non Investment” parts?

The investment part could include only other general things directly relevant to investment (not general non investment discussion). People like me wanting Investment news could click on that option for a quick check. If later I wanted “Non Investment” I could click on that option.

Mike

[pje16]

Comment has been made that TMF site was more investment oriented so why cannot the site be split into “Investment”and “Non Investment” parts?

No please do not split the site
It is easy to pick what you want to read and what you are not interested in
If the site is split you may as well have 2 different urls

[Lootman]

Comment has been made that TMF site was more investment oriented so why cannot the site be split into “Investment”and “Non Investment” parts?

No please do not split the site
It is easy to pick what you want to read and what you are not interested in
If the site is split you may as well have 2 different urls

I agree but maybe it would be possible to divide the "New Posts" into investment and non-investment topics. Then those who only want to see investment posts can do so, and vice versa.

I have no idea if that is possible of course, nor easy to do even if it is.

[pje16]

I don't see how that would work
what do you do with one that drifts off topic for example

[Itsallaguess]

There is no denying that we have a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people who contribute to this site on non financial matters and I would think that they very possibly attract people who might not otherwise come near the site if it were only financial/investment stuff. Then success breeds success, likely attracting more of.

The financial side then becomes less significant and we have the situation as it is today.

Ah, but the financial side becoming less significant is not the same as it dying.

You have given a reason why some non-financial type posters might come but not a reason why existing financial type posters might be leaving or posting less.

Because the regular tone of debate generated by the very heavy dominance of political arguments sadly turns the site into one where aggressive point-scoring one-upmanship is a much higher priority for those with the most to say on those political subjects, over and above the original remit of the site, which was primarily and originally a 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forum', and I think that's more or less where Dod came in with his opening post on this thread - it is simply not now 'what it says it is on the tin'....

The idea of broader topics shouldn't be a problem in theory, but when those broader topics become heavily dominated by aggressive point-scoring, and point-scoring posters who then dominate the site in those political areas, then there's a general bleed-over right across the tone of the site that's really quite difficult to miss, in my opinion, for those of us who have been here long enough to witness the transformation in tone of what used to feel like a much more welcoming 'finance-community' based forum....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[BullDog]

Perhaps what you see is just the natural and inevitable life cycle of an internet discussion forum? I have been both a user and owner of various forums/groups over the years since the late 1990's. The internet is chock full of abandoned or hardly used forums. Internet life has evolved and continues to evolve at an astonishing rate. I learned that all forums will eventually fade and either semi zombify or cease to be used. The reasons are multitude. But it's just life. As social media has rapidly developed this evolution has got even quicker. Forums are yesterday's social media. I doubt much if anything can be done to change the direction of travel here. Just enjoy it while you can.

[88V8]

...was primarily and originally a 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forum', and I think that's more or less where Dod came in with his opening post on this thread - it is simply not now 'what it says it is on the tin'....

It still is as far as I'm concerned.
I do post on other Boards, but if it were not for the Shares etc I would not be here.

There are of course other more active sites to discuss individual shares, often dominated by day traders. I look in on LSE and ADVFN but rarely post.

And there are forums where Finance etc is an add-on.

But I am not aware of any other sites like this one.

As to the tone of the place I think all forums have problems with their Social boards, and indeed I seem to recall some pretty unpleasant flack directed at Luni on TMF's HYP board for the frequency of his portfolio postings, and of course The Zones which some people never could get their head around....

What was irritating on here was the TR obsessives hawking their wares, but on the whole they seem to have given up.

Less traffic on HYP Practical now of course. Few people still bother to post their portfolios there - I never have and in any case I don't have separate stats for my HYP shares - or indeed to post their portfolios anywhere. It's a lot of work and I thank those who take the trouble.
Don't recall Dod doing so for instance.

Never mind, we doddle along.
Nil desperandum.

V8

[Lootman]

Because the regular tone of debate generated by the very heavy dominance of political arguments sadly turns the site into one where aggressive point-scoring one-upmanship is a much higher priority for those with the most to say on those political subjects, over and above the original remit of the site, which was primarily and originally a 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forum', and I think that's more or less where Dod came in with his opening post on this thread - it is simply not now 'what it says it is on the tin'....

There is no doubt that the PD/CAN political board contributes a fair amount of acrimony, and I am certainly not denying that I may sometimes play a part in that. When I do react it is usually because of the tone and tenor of the other party rather than the idea being expressed.

But that said I recall one moderator telling us that the two biggest problem boards on TLF are PD/CAN and the HYP-P board, the latter of course being an investment board. And on TMF there were some quite aggressive battles on some of the personal finance boards, notably the "Dealing with Debt" board in particular as I recall.

The idea of broader topics shouldn't be a problem in theory, but when those broader topics become heavily dominated by aggressive point-scoring, and point-scoring posters who then dominate the site in those political areas, then there's a general bleed-over right across the tone of the site that's really quite difficult to miss, in my opinion, for those of us who have been here long enough to witness the transformation in tone of what used to feel like a much more welcoming 'finance-community' based forum....

One point that has been made in the past (although not all agree I feel sure) is that some of the bad actors on the politics board never or hardly ever contribute on investment topics. Now I hesitate to say there is anything wrong with a Lemon who isn't interested in investment, not least because someone mentioned upthread that both Stooz and Clariman fall into that camp.

However I recall that I confronted one Lemon who was being disruptive on PD/CAN pointing out that they never contributed to investment topics. He replied, rather arrogantly in my view, that he was a keen investor but that he didn't feel he could learn anything from the community.

Now quite apart from the fact that I do not believe that anyone here is truly in the omniscience category, I think that attitude shows a certain disrespect towards the community. And if someone feels that way then they are less likely to realise they are being ornery and recognise it as such. For such characters, it is more about ego than community. He hasn't been seen on TLF recently so I guess he followed his own advice.

PS: Post number 13,000 so I do my bit to keep up the total activity here, even if most of them are trivial, self-indulgent and possibly even contradictory.

[mc2fool]

Ah, but the financial side becoming less significant is not the same as it dying.

You have given a reason why some non-financial type posters might come but not a reason why existing financial type posters might be leaving or posting less.

Because the regular tone of debate generated by the very heavy dominance of political arguments sadly turns the site into one where aggressive point-scoring one-upmanship is a much higher priority for those with the most to say on those political subjects, over and above the original remit of the site, which was primarily and originally a 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forum', and I think that's more or less where Dod came in with his opening post on this thread - it is simply not now 'what it says it is on the tin'....

The idea of broader topics shouldn't be a problem in theory, but when those broader topics become heavily dominated by aggressive point-scoring, and point-scoring posters who then dominate the site in those political areas, then there's a general bleed-over right across the tone of the site that's really quite difficult to miss, in my opinion, for those of us who have been here long enough to witness the transformation in tone of what used to feel like a much more welcoming 'finance-community' based forum....

Sorry, but that's funny! I'm not laughing at you, IIAG, honest 'guv, but you have given me a good (natured) laugh, as methinks maybe your memory is a little faded....

The aggressive point-scoring one-upmanship is not new to TLF -- it came across from TMF with many of its practitioners, most of which are still here today.

Have you forgotten The HYP Wars? It was a good part 'cos of the aggressive point-scoring one-upmanship on the TMF HY boards that I gave up following them long before I stopped running a HYP. That "tone" was present there, and in several other finance boards long before TLF, and migrated to it.

And then there was The Brexit Wars, that happened on TMF and was aggressive point-scoring one-upmanship on steroids! I gave up reading that TMF board too, pretty much in disgust 'cos of that. What you describe is not new and certainly wasn't ever limited to just the political areas.

Look, I genuinely have no idea if the finance side of TLF is dying, or whether it's just a perception from a snapshot look at Quick Links (did TMF have an equivalent, I don't remember), hence my call for data. And then even if it is I'm not convinced about the reason (I still go for my "stand alone site" theory.)

However, if you guys genuinely believe that having the mix of financial and non-financial boards in the same collection of boards, i.e. under the same homepage, is detrimental to the financial side, then I will support you in requesting that the owners split the site.

I'm not familiar with phpBB configuration but I suspect the easiest, and almost certainly the cheapest, would be to keep (just) the financial boards on http://www.lemonfool.co.uk and have the non-financial ones on, say, nonfin.lemonfool.co.uk ... or some other better named sub-domain!

Why don't you put together a proposal and put it forward as a poll, then present the results to the owners (ok, they'll see anyway) and see what they reckon? As long as your proposal is a split and doesn't disadvantage either side, I will vote for it.

[csearle]

I agree with @CliffEdge
I stumbled across it last year
and have found it useful because it covers MORE than just finance
There are also areas on here that I am not interested in so guess what, I just don't read those posts
There are also a bunch of great posters on here so you can learn and have fun at the same time

Sadly some of the great posters are no longer with us, but on the plus side many of them still are.

Whilst the thrust here is mainly investing (or at least it is intended to be) the TLF-Fringe is part of the mix I feel. Ok so I imagine there are a host of places where non-financial matters could be delved into in greater depth but here we try to maintain a certain civility, which can be expected to exist across the spectrum of boards.

The trickiest is the Current Affairs & News board, which by its very nature is at best tangential to investing and likely to inflame passions a bit. Maybe it would be better, as before, behind an opt-in wall?

I feel a real pain each time a poster decides our site is no longer for them. It seems so difficult to find a balance where no-one feels the urge to leave. My hope is that people speak of this community to others and in doing so we gain more people than leave. Not for any monetary reasons; but simply to enrich the experience of those of us that are already here.

Chris

[scrumpyjack]

It is possible that, by now, most possible topics on financial issues have pretty much been debated to death!
I find that in magazines like the Investor's Chronicle, where every portfolio that Chris Dillow comments on have much the same points made.

So it is natural that there are fewer posts on financial topics as it has all been said before!

[XFool]

TLF claims to have taken over where TMF left off but it does not.

It rescued a community Dod, and for that we should be grateful, because it gave a new home to a fantastic group of people that was basically thrown onto the streets otherwise, when the Motley Fool discussion boards previously closed down.

Unfortunately, the main long-term problem with the Lemon Fool is a structural one, because it's a simple and unfortunate fact that neither of the two Lemon Fool owners, or the chief moderator, are actually all that interested in investing...

I did not know that to be the case. However, I rather doubt that even if so it really is the cause of the problem. Why? Well, see your own following paragraph:

The Motley Fool were interested in investing, and that interest and passion, and direct involvement with the community in that area of interest, clearly helped to drive the TMF investment-based discussion boards to be the thriving community it was, and it should come as no surprise that the absence of that structural investment-based interest has allowed our new home to quickly develop into just another argumentative twitter-fest...

So the UK Motley Fool "investment-based discussion boards" are thriving to this day? No. They are not...

I don't know how familiar you are with the US Motley Fool site, from which UK Motley Fool derived. I don't use it myself but still log on very occasionally. I notice a steady decline in their BB activities over time. It's still there (AFIAIK) but you had to look for it on their site menu strip, unlike formerly. Recently, when I visited them, the BB wasn't even listed on the site menu - it's still there, just, but you have to Google for it. How much longer will it last?

It seems the novelty of investment (remember the Dot Com boom?) has worn off. Perhaps what is left is sites for traders (ADVFN, LSE) or subscription
sites for 'serious' investors.

On TLF (as with TMF), apart from the HYP boards, there is not a lot on individual share investing (OK some). Though there is the Investment Trust and Unit Trust board.

[NotSure]

I agree with @CliffEdge
I stumbled across it last year
and have found it useful because it covers MORE than just finance
There are also areas on here that I am not interested in so guess what, I just don't read those posts
There are also a bunch of great posters on here so you can learn and have fun at the same time

Sadly some of the great posters are no longer with us, but on the plus side many of them still are.

Whilst the thrust here is mainly investing (or at least it is intended to be) the TLF-Fringe is part of the mix I feel. Ok so I imagine there are host of places where non-financial matters could be delved into in greater depth but here we try to maintain a certain civility, which can be expected to exist across the spectrum of boards.

The trickiest is the Current Affairs & News board, which by its very nature is at best tangential to investing and likely to inflame passions a bit. Maybe it would be better, as before, behind an opt-in wall?

I feel a real pain each time a poster decides our site is no longer for them. It seems so difficult to find a balance where no-one feels the urge to leave. My hope is that people speak of this community to others and in doing so we gain more people than leave. Not for any monetary reasons; but simply to enrich the experience of those of us that are already here.

Chris

FWVLIF, posting as a 'newbie' I think TLF is just fine as it is. I arrived here via TMF. I lurked there many years ago, but for various reasons was not interested/involved in 'investment' for many years (combination of poverty and fecklessness ). Now I am again, Google brought me here.

IMHO, there are certainly enough excellent posts on finance/investment to retain my interest - both micro and especially macro. I won't name names, but at least one of those responsible has posted on this thread. But seriously, if I have a question on any subject whatsoever that Google fails me, TLF is my next port of call. The range of knowledge across all kinds of subjects here is unparalleled in my experience.

Yes there are sometimes slanging matches on some sub-forums, but they are easily avoided, and much better that state of affairs than some sort of echo chamber. TLF is not an echo chamber!

I feel three main factors contribute to the reduced number of directly investment related posting - the advent of really cheap ETFs/ITs etc, the realisation by many that they ain't very likely to beat the market long term and the fact that the answer to many questions can be found by searching the site. So investing for many has become rather mechanical and a little 'boring'. But between those pursuing alternative strategies (e.g. HYP), and that few that do have an edge on e.g. VWRL, there's enough to keep me informed and entertained on finance/investment.

So for me at least, it's the investment stuff that keeps me coming back, but the non-finance stuff is (on the whole) a massive enhancement, not a distraction. I could post a badly exposed photo here of some obscure creepy-crawly I found in my shoe, and within 20 minutes, I'd have it's Latin name and social habits .

[XFool]

I think the investment side of the site is dying, because of all the non-finance postings.

I don't follow the reasoning there. Let's say it is indeed the case that the investment side of the site is dying: why would, say, the HYP community (to pick a particularly talkative lot, at least historically) post any less about HYP because other folks are chattering away, on totally separate boards, about Boris, covid, Ukraine, etc? That doesn't make sense to me.

Let's put it another way, do you think the investment side would undergo a revival if all of the non-finance boards were just split off to, say, stoozeschatboards.co.uk leaving only the finance boards on lemonfool.co.uk? If so, why? 'cos I can't see why it would have that effect.

Quite.

In my opinion this is a non-argument, regularly trotted out by those frustrated at the lack of investment based discussion (to their liking) on TLF. Just so they can have something to blame...