The Lemon Fool

Dod101 wrote:The government since it came to power has scarcely had a 'normal' week to understand what on earth is going on, and most of its ministers had no experience of government before all this hit.

Dod

Though The Conservatives had been in power for ten years when "all this hit" of course. I'm not sure how much longer they would need to gain "experience of government".

didds

Lootman wrote: whereas Middlesbrough (and its even more dire neighbours Stockton-on-Tees and Hartlepool) looked more in need of help.

Hartlepool of course having voted in a Conservative MP two years ago.

didds wrote:

Dod101 wrote:The government since it came to power has scarcely had a 'normal' week to understand what on earth is going on, and most of its ministers had no experience of government before all this hit.

Dod

Though The Conservatives had been in power for ten years when "all this hit" of course. I'm not sure how much longer they would need to gain "experience of government".

didds

I do think THAT is the genius of Tory HQ!

Sane rational people do believe they're still dealing with a problem labour left them
...which to be fair was a bit out of their hands
- unless Fanny Mae was Tony Blair's drag alter ego

servodude wrote:

didds wrote:

Dod101 wrote:The government since it came to power has scarcely had a 'normal' week to understand what on earth is going on, and most of its ministers had no experience of government before all this hit.

Though The Conservatives had been in power for ten years when "all this hit" of course. I'm not sure how much longer they would need to gain "experience of government".

I do think THAT is the genius of Tory HQ!

Sane rational people do believe they're still dealing with a problem Labour left them

I don't know. If you put me in power for 13 years, I am fairly sure I could create a mess big enough to take 13 years to fix.

Brown appears to be living proof of that.

Lootman wrote:

servodude wrote:Sane rational people do believe they're still dealing with a problem Labour left them

I don't know. If you put me in power for 13 years, I am fairly sure I could create a mess big enough to take 13 years to fix.

Brown appears to be living proof of that.

Im no supporter of Brown whatsoever, but I'm unsure of how its his fault to deal with the fallout of Brexit created by Cameron/May/Johnson post 2016, or a global pandemic that didn't appear until 2019 at the earliest?


I took that to be "when all this hit" TBH, and not a banking crisis from 14 years ago.
didds

didds wrote:

Lootman wrote:

servodude wrote:Sane rational people do believe they're still dealing with a problem Labour left them

I don't know. If you put me in power for 13 years, I am fairly sure I could create a mess big enough to take 13 years to fix.

Brown appears to be living proof of that.

Im not supporter of Brown but Im unsure of how its his fault to deal with the fallout of Brexit crated by Cameron/May/Johnson post 2016) or a global pandemic that didn't appear until 2019 at the earliest?

I took that to be "when all this hit" - TBH, and not a banking crisis from 14 years ago.

If you want to blame someone for Brexit then it is not Cameron/May/Johnson any more than it is Brown. It is the voters whom you have a problem with. But sure, perhaps if Brown had been more successful then the people would have been denied a voice on the matter, if that was your point.

No politician can be blamed for Covid clearly. Unlike the GFC it was not reasonably predictable.

Lootman wrote:

servodude wrote:

didds wrote:

Dod101 wrote:The government since it came to power has scarcely had a 'normal' week to understand what on earth is going on, and most of its ministers had no experience of government before all this hit.

Though The Conservatives had been in power for ten years when "all this hit" of course. I'm not sure how much longer they would need to gain "experience of government".

I do think THAT is the genius of Tory HQ!

Sane rational people do believe they're still dealing with a problem Labour left them

I don't know. If you put me in power for 13 years, I am fairly sure I could create a mess big enough to take 13 years to fix.

Brown appears to be living proof of that.

I hardly think Brown can be held for the GFC which started in the USA.

Anyway I blame Gladstone for introducing the welfare state - its all the Liberal's fault

RockRabbit wrote:

Lootman wrote:

servodude wrote:

didds wrote:

Dod101 wrote:The government since it came to power has scarcely had a 'normal' week to understand what on earth is going on, and most of its ministers had no experience of government before all this hit.

Though The Conservatives had been in power for ten years when "all this hit" of course. I'm not sure how much longer they would need to gain "experience of government".

I do think THAT is the genius of Tory HQ!

Sane rational people do believe they're still dealing with a problem Labour left them

I don't know. If you put me in power for 13 years, I am fairly sure I could create a mess big enough to take 13 years to fix.

Brown appears to be living proof of that.

I hardly think Brown can be held for the GFC which started in the USA.

It was Brown's job to make economic predictions about events that could harm the UK. In that sense he clearly failed and the voters came to that same verdict when he was kicked out at the first opportunity.

Lootman wrote:It was Brown's job to make economic predictions about events that could harm the UK. In that sense he clearly failed

So presumably also

Sajid Javid
2019 to 2020

Philip Hammond
2016 to 2019

George Osborne
2010 to 2016

Alistair Darling
2007 to 2010

???

didds wrote:

Lootman wrote:It was Brown's job to make economic predictions about events that could harm the UK. In that sense he clearly failed

So presumably also

Sajid Javid
2019 to 2020

Philip Hammond
2016 to 2019

George Osborne
2010 to 2016

Alistair Darling
2007 to 2010

???

No because none of them could reasonably be expected to predict something that had already happened. And nothing predictable has happened since then of the same magnitude and impact.

Lootman wrote:No because none of them could reasonably be expected to predict something that had already happened. And nothing predictable has happened since then of the same magnitude and impact.

Brexit and covid hadn't happened during their tenures though?

So why didn't they all plan for those ?

We cant just pick and choose the bricks to throw - its all the bricks or none.

Lootman wrote:

didds wrote:

Lootman wrote:It was Brown's job to make economic predictions about events that could harm the UK. In that sense he clearly failed

So presumably also

Sajid Javid
2019 to 2020

Philip Hammond
2016 to 2019

George Osborne
2010 to 2016

Alistair Darling
2007 to 2010

???

No because none of them could reasonably be expected to predict something that had already happened. And nothing predictable has happened since then of the same magnitude and impact.

Right. So it was all Maggie Thatcher's fault then?

I'm guessing - as she wasn't Labour - it "wasn't".

XFool wrote:Right. So it was all Maggie Thatcher's fault then?

I'm guessing - as she wasn't Labour - it "wasn't".

I guess, applying lootman's suggestion, no, as she wasn't chancellor?

though that would of course mean Geoffrey Howe, Nigel Lawson and John Major were.

Chuck Healey in there for balance?

didds

didds wrote:

XFool wrote:Right. So it was all Maggie Thatcher's fault then?

I'm guessing - as she wasn't Labour - it "wasn't".

I guess, applying lootman's suggestion, no, as she wasn't chancellor?

though that would of course mean Geoffrey Howe, Nigel Lawson and John Major were.

Chuck Healey in there for balance?

My suggestion was more that it seems plain silly to blame people who were in charge 15 years before or after. When there is an obvious candidate for the blame who was chancellor for a full decade before and up to the GFC. If the prior incumbents made mistakes there was plenty of time for Brown to fix them.

Healey was of course at least partly to blame for Callaghan's failure which bears a few similarities to Brown's. Both lost a GE that led to 4 consecutive Tory election victories.

Lootman wrote:My suggestion was more that it seems plain silly to blame people who were in charge 15 years before or after.

Exactly.

Though I confess I cant see anybody blaming Sunak for the GFC. Whatever.

didds wrote:

Lootman wrote:My suggestion was more that it seems plain silly to blame people who were in charge 15 years before or after.

Exactly. Though I confess I cant see anybody blaming Sunak for the GFC.

Xfool did suggest Sajid Javid (2019 to 2020) amongst other post-2007 chancellors, although you will have to ask him how he figures that out.

Getting back to Sunak I don't actually think he has done a bad job at all, and seems to be getting flak mostly because he has a very rich wife, which evidently makes him the anti-Christ to some.