The hate that passeth all understanding...

[XFool]

Any store that introduces a "no chat, no coupons, no refunds, no kidding" aisle will get my business. Probably.

Aldi....

Yep.

[Arborbridge]

With respect and all that, you haven't seen it. It's a cattle pen, with chrome instead of galvanised bars.

And we could argue fruitlessly about how it's become a necessity in these kleptomaniac times, but the bottom line is still that I'll choose to shop somewhere that doesn't treat me that way. I have plenty of choice.

We choose not to use self-scan at all, anywhere, just another unwelcome step in the depersonalisation of shopping.

V8

Shopping is already depoersonalised, and this is a much more efficient way. I've been back to the old days in effect by visiting shops in parts of New Zealand. Yep, just like the UK in the 50s and what a pain! You have to ask someone behind a counter for each individual item and discuss the time of day and the weather. One can die of frustration if you like, but I prefer what we have now.

[Watis]

Doesn't anyone use the hand held scanners?
Pick up an item scan it put it in bag, at the end go to the special tills (never a queue ) pay and go. No double handling and only have to interact with staff if something has a tag or (as usual ) I am buying booze.

Rob

Yes - I've always used them since they first came in. Never a problem and I don't understand why the mass of people do not use them - but I'm glad they don't as it leaves the machine free for us!

Arb.

Me too!

I consider my shopping trip successful if I leave without having spoken to anyone.

If I do have to speak to someone, it's either because I can't find something I'm looking for, or I've been selected for a random check at the till.

Watis

[Watis]

Any store that introduces a "no chat, no coupons, no refunds, no kidding" aisle will get my business. Probably.

Aldi....

V8

I got a refund in Aldi once.

It was a pain though. They can't process a refund at the tills so have to call for a supervisor. When he eventually rocked up, he took me to another till so I could explain why I was returning the item and he could refund me the cost.

It's not made easy - perhaps that's deliberate?

Watis

[mc2fool]

Uh? Surely in all cases you load into your bags, no? Sure, in the (nowadays rare) occasions when I go through a human checkout the bags are in the trolley, open and ready, but I still load directly into the bags, as that's where it'll all end up anyway....

Well I prefer to load directly into the bags in the trolley rather than fill the SS scale with my bags then fill them then with my items be I transfer the now heavy bags to the trolley, it's double handling and the full bags are much heavier than any individual item.

Trying to parse the English there....

So, IIUC, at both the self checkouts and staffed checkouts you put the items directly into the bags as you/the staff member scans them, and the only difference is that at the self checkout the bags are (necessarily of course) on the scales, so you then have to lift them into the trolley, whereas at the staffed checkout the bags are already in the trolley and being filled there, yes? If so, yeah, same for me.

At self checkout I have to have the security tag removed from the Drambuie at the end of the shop but I would rather have already been approved and have the bottle deep in the bag neatly packed rather than have to add it at the end spoiling my packing system.

You can't ask for it to be removed as you rock up? One of the advantages of the self checkouts for me is that I can determine the scanning order to fit my packing style, whereas with the staffed checkouts no matter how you place the items on the conveyor inevitably some get whizzed through to you in the "wrong" order. (Now that's a first world problem! )

[Arborbridge]

Yes - I've always used them since they first came in. Never a problem and I don't understand why the mass of people do not use them - but I'm glad they don't as it leaves the machine free for us!

Arb.

Me too!

I consider my shopping trip successful if I leave without having spoken to anyone.

If I do have to speak to someone, it's either because I can't find something I'm looking for, or I've been selected for a random check at the till.

Watis

BTW, some people have mentioned unhelpful and surly staff. Well, it happens I was in Sainsbury last week and couldn't find something I needed. No problem, a cheerful young woman immediately helped me.
Ironically, they didn't sell what I wanted, but that's not the point. She researched it and helped with a cheerful disposition.
In my experience, staff in Tesco, Sbry or Waitrose are all helpful and friendly which make it nice shopping there. However, this might depend on which area one lives in.

[bungeejumper]

In my experience, staff in Tesco, Sbry or Waitrose are all helpful and friendly which make it nice shopping there. However, this might depend on which area one lives in.

I'm sure it's the way you deal with them that gets these results, and good for you. But yes, geography might play a smaller role. A kid from a deadbeat council estate in Sandwell won't always have the same world view as someone from a grammar school in Esher, and it would be pleasantly surprising if he did. Most supermarket workers are pretty close to the minimum wage.

BTW, some people have mentioned unhelpful and surly staff. Well, it happens I was in Sainsbury last week and couldn't find something I needed. No problem, a cheerful young woman immediately helped me. Ironically, they didn't sell what I wanted, but that's not the point. She researched it and helped with a cheerful disposition.

Okay, it was me who mentioned unhelpful and surly staff. But I was talking specifically about the ones who had been assigned the unpleasant task of supervising the self-checkout area of the supermarket where customers were (a) frequently shoplifting, (b) doing deceptive stuff with the way they used the scanners, and (c) all too often getting stroppy when challenged. The fact that this would be more than enough to make a naturally sunny person a bit sour seems almost too obvious to mention, and it's nobody's fault, just the way it is.

BJ

[88V8]

Me too!
I consider my shopping trip successful if I leave without having spoken to anyone.
If I do have to speak to someone, it's either because I can't find something I'm looking for, or I've been selected for a random check at the till.

In my experience, staff in Tesco, Sbry or Waitrose are all helpful and friendly which make it nice shopping there.

Yes, a friendly young lady in Waitrose... they all seem young nowadays... directed us to the haggis yesterday. But all they had left was something called 'vegetarian haggis'
So Burn's night will be on Saturday, after a visit to Aldi.

Ivor

[servodude]

Doesn't anyone use the hand held scanners?
Pick up an item scan it put it in bag, at the end go to the special tills (never a queue ) pay and go. No double handling and only have to interact with staff if something has a tag or (as usual ) I am buying booze.

Rob

Yes - I've always used them since they first came in. Never a problem and I don't understand why the mass of people do not use them - but I'm glad they don't as it leaves the machine free for us!

Arb.

Or the Amazon Fresh model? Which is basically a shoplifting simulator
- scan in to the shop
- put stuff in your bag and leave

[Arborbridge]

In my experience, staff in Tesco, Sbry or Waitrose are all helpful and friendly which make it nice shopping there. However, this might depend on which area one lives in.

I'm sure it's the way you deal with them that gets these results, and good for you. But yes, geography might play a smaller role. A kid from a deadbeat council estate in Sandwell won't always have the same world view as someone from a grammar school in Esher, and it would be pleasantly surprising if he did. Most supermarket workers are pretty close to the minimum wage.

BTW, some people have mentioned unhelpful and surly staff. Well, it happens I was in Sainsbury last week and couldn't find something I needed. No problem, a cheerful young woman immediately helped me. Ironically, they didn't sell what I wanted, but that's not the point. She researched it and helped with a cheerful disposition.

Okay, it was me who mentioned unhelpful and surly staff. But I was talking specifically about the ones who had been assigned the unpleasant task of supervising the self-checkout area of the supermarket where customers were (a) frequently shoplifting, (b) doing deceptive stuff with the way they used the scanners, and (c) all too often getting stroppy when challenged. The fact that this would be more than enough to make a naturally sunny person a bit sour seems almost too obvious to mention, and it's nobody's fault, just the way it is.

BJ

I know region and the company ethos both have an effect. For example, I used to live in Croydon and the staff in the supermarkets tended to ignore you, look through you or chat across to with their colleagues as though you weren't even there.
I now live in Sussex, more countryfied and much different. People generally engage better, whether shop staff or passers by. The first thing I noticed here was that it doesn't take much to get people chatting. Up in Surrey if you meet someone on a footpath they really pretend you aren't there - down here it's rare that you don't get a "hello".

Arb.

[mc2fool]

Well Aldi now has another idea -- requiring people to tap in with their phone or contactless card to get into a store.

Their "Shop & Go" pilot store in Greenwich is along the lines of Amazon's till-less stores. You either download their app and register with that (presumably tying a debit or credit card to it) and use it to get the entry gates to open, or you just tap in with a contactless card.

Once in you shop as you like but instead of putting the items into a basket or trolley you stick them directly into your bags, and cameras watch you doing it and add the items to your bill. When done you just walk out and your card gets charged for all the items you took.

Amongst other things, there's the following advice on their website for those of us that help little old ladies who can't reach top shelf items: "Helping other shoppers: Items you pick up will be added to your bill. When passing other shoppers’ items, place the item on an accessible shelf for them to reach.". Hmmm.....

https://groceries.aldi.co.uk/en-GB/shopandgo

Seems not everyone likes it: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/1779262/Aldi-shop-and-go-Greenwich-London

[bungeejumper]

Amongst other things, there's the following advice on their website for those of us that help little old ladies who can't reach top shelf items: "Helping other shoppers: Items you pick up will be added to your bill. When passing other shoppers’ items, place the item on an accessible shelf for them to reach.". Hmmm.....

Never mind the little old ladies. Little old me will regularly pick something up to scrutinise its list of ingredients - indeed, I'd be mad not to if I had a serious allergy or if I was watching my calories. And then put it back down again.

Then there are the times when the shelf stacker has mistakenly put the ground coffee bags on the shelf where the coffee beans should be, or the full fat milk in the semi-skimmed crate. Or maybe I just want to rummage through the sirloin steaks for one with a bit more fat? This isn't going to end well.

BJ

[mc2fool]

Amongst other things, there's the following advice on their website for those of us that help little old ladies who can't reach top shelf items: "Helping other shoppers: Items you pick up will be added to your bill. When passing other shoppers’ items, place the item on an accessible shelf for them to reach.". Hmmm.....

Never mind the little old ladies. Little old me will regularly pick something up to scrutinise its list of ingredients - indeed, I'd be mad not to if I had a serious allergy or if I was watching my calories. And then put it back down again.

They claim that's not a problem: "Changed your mind? You can put the items back where you found them. Don’t worry, you won’t be charged."

[doolally]

Never mind the little old ladies. Little old me will regularly pick something up to scrutinise its list of ingredients - indeed, I'd be mad not to if I had a serious allergy or if I was watching my calories. And then put it back down again.

They claim that's not a problem: "Changed your mind? You can put the items back where you found them. Don’t worry, you won’t be charged."

Post Office Horizon software?
doolally

[bungeejumper]

They claim that's not a problem: "Changed your mind? You can put the items back where you found them. Don’t worry, you won’t be charged."

Post Office Horizon software?
doolally

I must say, I can't quite imagine how a scanner would know for sure whether you'd put something back on the shelf or into your bag. Or at least, not with enough certainty to decide that you did/didn't need to be charged. It must be quite some algorithm. Unless everything is radio tagged in some way? I'm intrigued!

I'm not sure it could cope with my occasional need to pick up an item, walk to the other end of the shop, and then bring it back to the shelf. If I'm shopping for a recipe and find out, at the last moment, that something isn't in stock, I might very well call the whole thing off and buy a different load of stuff.

And there'll be other shoppers, of course, who are on a tight budget and decide at the last moment to buy a reduced bottle of Jack Daniels and to put the fish fingers back, because they can't afford everything at once. I guess there must be a returns counter inside the store to cover that sort of eventuality?

BJ

[mc2fool]

Post Office Horizon software?
doolally

I must say, I can't quite imagine how a scanner would know for sure whether you'd put something back on the shelf or into your bag. Or at least, not with enough certainty to decide that you did/didn't need to be charged. It must be quite some algorithm. Unless everything is radio tagged in some way? I'm intrigued!

I would imagine that it's the same/similar technology to the till-less Amazon stores that have been running for a while. Here's a couple of descriptions (first reasonable looking ones I found, there may be better ones...)

"Amazon is using a combination of artificial intelligence, computer vision, and data pulled from multiple sensors to ensure customers are only charged for the stuff they pick up. Cameras are used to track items as they're taken from shelves.

A patent application filed by Amazon in early 2015 first revealed details about the technology. The patent described a store that would work using a system of cameras, sensors, and/or RFID readers to identify shoppers and their items.

There is also a mention of "facial recognition" and user information, which may include images of the user, details about the user like height and weight, user biometrics, a username and password, even user purchase history.

We're not entirely sure if this patent application precisely describes the final iteration of Just Walk Out technology. However, it is a camera-tracking system and it must also use some kind of AI to track you through the store."
https://www.pocket-lint.com/what-is-amazon-go-where-is-it-and-how-does-it-work/

"Amazon GO stores monitor everything from above and around you. You’ll see cameras in the ceiling that monitor what you pick up and put back. There are weight sensors on shelves that track when items are removed.

All these devices are part of an AI-based system that automatically registers your actions in the store and adds the products you choose to your virtual cart.
:
Another fun fact about Amazon Go stores is that they rely on tracking people around the store. They do this through computer vision, a system that, simply put, uses deep learning to catch, analyze, and react to visual inputs.
:
Apart from weight sensors and PLU codes, some products have patterns on the packaging that serve as IDs for cameras to detect. All these tricks help Amazon’s system spot what you take, quickly and accurately.

The only thing you need to do is pick up what you want, but don’t take something off a shelf for another customer. The cameras and sensors will mark you as the person paying for it. In other words, be careful of your actions, no matter how much you just want to help."
https://www.makeuseof.com/how-amazons-cashierless-grocery-stores-actually-work/

[mc2fool]

P.S. The first article above includes an Amazon video on their "Amazon Go" shops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrmMk1Myrxc (1m49s)

And this is a Saturday Night Live p*ss take on them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS9U3Gc832Y (2m30s)

[Lootman]

Post Office Horizon software?

I must say, I can't quite imagine how a scanner would know for sure whether you'd put something back on the shelf or into your bag. Or at least, not with enough certainty to decide that you did/didn't need to be charged. It must be quite some algorithm. Unless everything is radio tagged in some way? I'm intrigued!

I'm not sure it could cope with my occasional need to pick up an item, walk to the other end of the shop, and then bring it back to the shelf. If I'm shopping for a recipe and find out, at the last moment, that something isn't in stock, I might very well call the whole thing off and buy a different load of stuff.

And there'll be other shoppers, of course, who are on a tight budget and decide at the last moment to buy a reduced bottle of Jack Daniels and to put the fish fingers back, because they can't afford everything at once. I guess there must be a returns counter inside the store to cover that sort of eventuality?

I might guess that the technology works (or rather, does not work) like that employed for many years in some hotels for the minibar. It can detect what items you remove from the minibar. And then totally ignores if you put the item back without consuming it.

I once got charged the cost of the entire minibar because I removed everything so that I could put my own wine and beer in there.

A quick complaint at check-out got a full refund but what if the shop has a skeleton staff and you are over-charged? Maybe only realising later?

Not for me, no way.

[Bubblesofearth]

If you are going to go back to S**y's - download their Smartshop app and scan-as-you-shop on your phone. Bought goods straight to your own bags. Only interaction with the "machines" is to pay.

Go on- you know you want to try it. And inquiring minds want to know how you get on.

PS I use Smartshop, and my only issue with it is remembering what it is called. I keep looking from something called Sainsbury***, but a least it is close enough alphabetically to find.

What happens if you pop some booze into your bag? My first experience of a machine check out was a bit scary as there was a loud donging sound and a red light came on when I scanned a bottle of red. I knew I was (way) over 18 but it still took a moment to realise what was going on. Not a glance from other shoppers (phew) and a shop assistant scanned something and the light went green (phew).

But if you are scanning the booze and putting it straight into your bag then does a shop assistant need to track you down to verify you're an old fart so OK to proceed? Not sure I'd like that. Unless it's one of the more attractive young ladies that is forced to chase me down the isles reverse-Benny Hill style.

BoE

[stevensfo]

I must say, I can't quite imagine how a scanner would know for sure whether you'd put something back on the shelf or into your bag. Or at least, not with enough certainty to decide that you did/didn't need to be charged. It must be quite some algorithm. Unless everything is radio tagged in some way? I'm intrigued!

I would imagine that it's the same/similar technology to the till-less Amazon stores that have been running for a while. Here's a couple of descriptions (first reasonable looking ones I found, there may be better ones...)

"Amazon is using a combination of artificial intelligence, computer vision, and data pulled from multiple sensors to ensure customers are only charged for the stuff they pick up. Cameras are used to track items as they're taken from shelves.

A patent application filed by Amazon in early 2015 first revealed details about the technology. The patent described a store that would work using a system of cameras, sensors, and/or RFID readers to identify shoppers and their items.

There is also a mention of "facial recognition" and user information, which may include images of the user, details about the user like height and weight, user biometrics, a username and password, even user purchase history.

We're not entirely sure if this patent application precisely describes the final iteration of Just Walk Out technology. However, it is a camera-tracking system and it must also use some kind of AI to track you through the store."
https://www.pocket-lint.com/what-is-amazon-go-where-is-it-and-how-does-it-work/

"Amazon GO stores monitor everything from above and around you. You’ll see cameras in the ceiling that monitor what you pick up and put back. There are weight sensors on shelves that track when items are removed.

All these devices are part of an AI-based system that automatically registers your actions in the store and adds the products you choose to your virtual cart.
:
Another fun fact about Amazon Go stores is that they rely on tracking people around the store. They do this through computer vision, a system that, simply put, uses deep learning to catch, analyze, and react to visual inputs.
:
Apart from weight sensors and PLU codes, some products have patterns on the packaging that serve as IDs for cameras to detect. All these tricks help Amazon’s system spot what you take, quickly and accurately.

The only thing you need to do is pick up what you want, but don’t take something off a shelf for another customer. The cameras and sensors will mark you as the person paying for it. In other words, be careful of your actions, no matter how much you just want to help."
https://www.makeuseof.com/how-amazons-cashierless-grocery-stores-actually-work/

I rather like the clever use of 'fun fact'. A nice psychological trick to lessen the impact of the information:

Another fun fact about Amazon Go stores is that they rely on tracking people around the store. They do this through computer vision, a system that, simply put, uses deep learning to catch, analyze, and react to visual inputs.

I've never heard of these stores, but, fun fact, if I ever see one, I'll avoid it!

Steve