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How to walk in winter

GeoffF100
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273686

Postby GeoffF100 » December 28th, 2019, 10:36 am

If the snow is deep, you need snow shoes, otherwise you sink in.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273699

Postby UncleEbenezer » December 28th, 2019, 12:28 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:As I have said, walking on snow is different. If you are walking on fresh snow (without a steep incline), there is no problem. If the snow is compacted it becomes slippery. It is often a good idea to stay off the path where you can, or even take a cross country route that you would normally not even consider.


Virgin snow is fine. Even snow that's been compacted by honest forces of people walking is not a great problem. It's deliberate human treatment and heavy loads (cars and heavier) that make it a rapid nightmare. Put down salt and you'll melt what's there (or at least some of it), but if you then get a bit more and a freeze you've made an ice rink smoother than a skaters' arena. Or the more usual situation in Blighty, they'll salt a track through the road surface leaving surrounding ground (including the pavement) blighted by proximity to become the ice-rink.

Now if you're somewhere that gets real snow, that's different. After a few day/night cycles of warming and cooling, you have something that looks like virgin snow while also being ultra-slippery. That's when you traditionally want winter footwear, and sometimes other accessories.

If the snow is deep, you need snow shoes, otherwise you sink in.


Deep snow customarily means drifts: your thoughts may turn to a shovel if it's up against your front door and you can't make your way round!
Sinking in to snow is rarely a problem: IME it's worst when there's a half-formed crust that's solid enough to impede you but not to hold your weight.

GeoffF100
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273709

Postby GeoffF100 » December 28th, 2019, 1:15 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:Virgin snow is fine. Even snow that's been compacted by honest forces of people walking is not a great problem.

I have certainly known snow to be compacted to ice by footfall in places that are inaccessible to motorised traffic. The Calderdale Way near Hardcastle Crags a few years ago springs to mind. It was very difficult to make progress in places. Off path, up on the hills no problem. That winter was very cold for a long period. There were icicles bigger than me in Hardcastle Crags.

Here is the Wikipedia entry on snow shoes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowshoe

UncleEbenezer
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273761

Postby UncleEbenezer » December 28th, 2019, 5:34 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:Virgin snow is fine. Even snow that's been compacted by honest forces of people walking is not a great problem.

I have certainly known snow to be compacted to ice by footfall in places that are inaccessible to motorised traffic. The Calderdale Way near Hardcastle Crags a few years ago springs to mind. It was very difficult to make progress in places. Off path, up on the hills no problem. That winter was very cold for a long period. There were icicles bigger than me in Hardcastle Crags.

Ah, right. Yes, that's compaction acting with the forces of time (slight melting and refreezing with day/night cycle).

My comment was kind-of at cross-purposes with that. I had in mind around-town, and over shorter periods of snow. The kind of thing likely to prove unavoidable on occasion - even for those who don't walk anywhere so interesting.

stewamax
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273793

Postby stewamax » December 28th, 2019, 9:40 pm

In OP's link, the 'right way' chap has his head bent forward.
The penguin - given as the the exemplar, has its head above its body.
When I was taught dressage (where balance is important), the aim was to keep a vertical line between top of head and heels

GoSeigen
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273807

Postby GoSeigen » December 29th, 2019, 5:40 am

Dod101 wrote:The answer as far as car tyres are concerned is that I really do not know.

This is true.
It would be interesting to get a definitive answer but big fat tyres do not give a very good grip in snow

And this is not.

Big fat tyres give a very good grip on snow. They are used all over in snowy countries -- google "studless tyres" for example.

Maybe worth a trip to Japan one winter? The skiing there is awesome and you can observe the snow walking techniques and snow tyres at the same time...


GS

Dod101
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273811

Postby Dod101 » December 29th, 2019, 8:33 am

GS

If what you say is true that is quite heartening. I thought that the big fat tyres on my Q5 were good on snow because of the 4 wheel drive. I assure you that I have no interest in cars and am one of those who fills up with fuel, obeys the instructions on service and expects the car to motor when I turn on the engine. As Manuel said 'I know nothing'.

I thought (probably erroneously) that what was needed was maximum pressure per square inch of tyre on a road surface and surely that would come with narrower tyres.

Dod

GoSeigen
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Re: How to walk in winter

#273832

Postby GoSeigen » December 29th, 2019, 11:13 am

Dod101 wrote:If what you say is true that is quite heartening. I thought that the big fat tyres on my Q5 were good on snow because of the 4 wheel drive. I assure you that I have no interest in cars and am one of those who fills up with fuel, obeys the instructions on service and expects the car to motor when I turn on the engine. As Manuel said 'I know nothing'.

Your Q5's 4WD definitely helps because if one wheel slips under acceleration (including cornering and braking) there are three others to provide traction rather than just one. Your big tyres will help too; studless winter tyres would grip even better but are probably not worth the cost unless you live somewhere in the highlands.

I thought (probably erroneously) that what was needed was maximum pressure per square inch of tyre on a road surface and surely that would come with narrower tyres.

Dod


Higher pressure improves grip for sure, but so does greater contact area: however any benefit of higher pressure is nullified by loss of surface area and vice versa.

Thus, counter-intuitively, the general case is that grip (friction) is independent of contact area and pressure for a given weight.

Tyres have their own particular behaviour though, which makes them grip worse as you increase their loading. You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_load_sensitivity


GS
[Former science teacher!]

colin
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Re: How to walk in winter

#274900

Postby colin » January 3rd, 2020, 3:40 pm



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