The Lemon Fool

Lootman wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Lootman wrote:Continuing the kamikaze theme, how about:

4. g4+ Kg4
5. Bg6

Now the black king is cut off and the white bishop's control of the f7 square assures that the white d pawn can advance to queendom.

Nope. The black king is now under no pressure, and 5 ... B-a5 kills white's queening stone dead.

Bugger, I missed 5 . . Ba5.

d5 .. e2 I think

AiY

Continuing...

4. d8Q Nf7+

RC

ReformedCharacter wrote:If anyone is still interested...

3. Bc2 Kxh5

RC

I think maybe it's now the king's turn. An interesting line, and I haven't attempted to analyse all the variants:

4. K-e5 B-a5
5. K-f5 P-e2
6. B-a4 N-e6
7. P-d8 (Q or N) N-g7

Hmm ... And as I go to post that it shows me

Continuing...

4. d8Q Nf7+

Hehe. OK, that gives an interesting variant ...
5. K-e6 Nxd8
6. K-f5 P-e2
7. B-e4 P-e1N

Now it's down to maneuvering the bishop to give checkmate while evading the black knights, and before black can get into gear and kill either bishop or pawn, or check the king into letting the black king out. if you hadn't said mate in 14 I might be looking for some clever way to have the bishop elsewhere before K-f5.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

ReformedCharacter wrote:Continuing...

4. d8Q Nf7+

Hehe. OK, that gives an interesting variant ...
5. K-e6 Nxd8
6. K-f5 P-e2
7. B-e4 P-e1N

Now it's down to maneuvering the bishop to give checkmate while evading the black knights, and before black can get into gear and kill either bishop or pawn, or check the king into letting the black king out. if you hadn't said mate in 14 I might be looking for some clever way to have the bishop elsewhere before K-f5.

OK, back sooner than expected due to the rain. This is getting sillier ...

8. B-d5 P-c2
9. B-c4 P-c1N

Still can't see the final denouement.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Continuing...

4. d8Q Nf7+

Hehe. OK, that gives an interesting variant ...
5. K-e6 Nxd8
6. K-f5 P-e2
7. B-e4 P-e1N

Now it's down to maneuvering the bishop to give checkmate while evading the black knights, and before black can get into gear and kill either bishop or pawn, or check the king into letting the black king out. if you hadn't said mate in 14 I might be looking for some clever way to have the bishop elsewhere before K-f5.

8 Bd5
9 Bc4
10 Be2++

Black has two moves to prevent that. Promoting the c pawn does not help, except to another knight!?

UncleEbenezer wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

ReformedCharacter wrote:Continuing...

4. d8Q Nf7+

Hehe. OK, that gives an interesting variant ...
5. K-e6 Nxd8
6. K-f5 P-e2
7. B-e4 P-e1N

Now it's down to maneuvering the bishop to give checkmate while evading the black knights, and before black can get into gear and kill either bishop or pawn, or check the king into letting the black king out. if you hadn't said mate in 14 I might be looking for some clever way to have the bishop elsewhere before K-f5.

OK, back sooner than expected due to the rain. This is getting sillier ...

8. B-d5 P-c2
9. B-c4 P-c1N

Still can't see the final denouement.

10. B-b5 N-c7
11. B-a4 and black has run out of meaningful defences to B-d1. Damn, I don't believe it!

UncleEbenezer wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Hehe. OK, that gives an interesting variant ...
5. K-e6 Nxd8
6. K-f5 P-e2
7. B-e4 P-e1N

Now it's down to maneuvering the bishop to give checkmate while evading the black knights, and before black can get into gear and kill either bishop or pawn, or check the king into letting the black king out. if you hadn't said mate in 14 I might be looking for some clever way to have the bishop elsewhere before K-f5.

OK, back sooner than expected due to the rain. This is getting sillier ...

8. B-d5 P-c2
9. B-c4 P-c1N

Still can't see the final denouement.

10. B-b5 N-c7
11. B-a4 and black has run out of meaningful defences to B-d1. Damn, I don't believe it!

Bb3 as well? Oh no, wait, that's now a knight on c1, isn't it? Still not 14 moves though, so there must be something else.

Lootman wrote:Bb3 as well? Oh no, wait, that's now a knight on c1, isn't it? Still not 14 moves though, so there must be something else.

Yes it is 14 moves to mate. But black interposing the two knights and the white bishop removing them is not remotely interesting, which is why I saw no point in elaborating further. I expect it's also why RC originally said play and win, and only mentioned 14 moves to mate after someone asked.

Is there some social commentary in that ending? Knights by birth are fine, but the knighted pawns - commoners promoted above their station - are swiftly removed by the Establishment.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Lootman wrote:Bb3 as well? Oh no, wait, that's now a knight on c1, isn't it? Still not 14 moves though, so there must be something else.

Yes it is 14 moves to mate. But black interposing the two knights and the white bishop removing them is not remotely interesting, which is why I saw no point in elaborating further. I expect it's also why RC originally said play and win, and only mentioned 14 moves to mate after someone asked.

However, the silence from RC would seem to indicate that mine is not the solution. Back to normal.

10. Bb5 Nc7

RC

If I set the computer strength to 8 (maximum) then the following occurs

1. Kn-F6 - Ki-G7
2. Kn-H5 - Ki-G6
3. B-C2 - Ki-H5 (uh )

I don't get it

AiY

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:If I set the computer strength to 8 (maximum) then the following occurs

1. Kn-F6 - Ki-G7
2. Kn-H5 - Ki-G6
3. B-C2 - Ki-H5 (uh )

I don't get it

AiY

It is a hard puzzle and (apparently) most engines can't do it

I believe Stockfish can but I haven't tried it myself.

RC

ReformedCharacter wrote:Mate in 14.

So in the interests of completeness:

1. Nf6+ Kg7
2. Nh5+ Kg6
3. Bc2+ Kxh5
4. d8=Q Nf7+
5. Ke6 Nxd8+
6. Kf5 e2
7. Be4 e1=N
8. Bd5 c2
9. Bc4 c1=N
10. Bb5 Nc7
11. Ba4 any
12. Bd1+ Ne2
13. Be2+ Nf3
14. Bf3++

Different black King moves early on would allow white's d pawn to queen with check, and presumably would lead to quicker mates.

ReformedCharacter wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:If I set the computer strength to 8 (maximum) then the following occurs

1. Kn-F6 - Ki-G7
2. Kn-H5 - Ki-G6
3. B-C2 - Ki-H5 (uh )

I don't get it

AiY

It is a hard puzzle and (apparently) most engines can't do it

I believe Stockfish can but I haven't tried it myself.

RC

Nope, just tried lichess with Stockfish at level 8 playing white and me playing black, and after 16 moves each white was left with just the king and one bishop and black with just the king and one knight, so stalemate....

Lootman wrote:

ReformedCharacter wrote:Mate in 14.

So in the interests of completeness:

1. Nf6+ Kg7
2. Nh5+ Kg6
3. Bc2+ Kxh5
4. d8=Q Nf7+
5. Ke6 Nxd8+
6. Kf5 e2
7. Be4 e1=N
8. Bd5 c2
9. Bc4 c1=N
10. Bb5 Nc7
11. Ba4 any
12. Bd1+ Ne2
13. Be2+ Nf3
14. Bf3++

Different black King moves early on would allow white's d pawn to queen with check, and presumably would lead to quicker mates.

Well played!

Shown on agadamator's chess channel on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wCJalNkTEI

background:

https://en.chessbase.com/post/solution-to-a-truly-remarkable-study

RC

ReformedCharacter wrote:

Lootman wrote:

ReformedCharacter wrote:Mate in 14.

So in the interests of completeness:

1. Nf6+ Kg7
2. Nh5+ Kg6
3. Bc2+ Kxh5
4. d8=Q Nf7+
5. Ke6 Nxd8+
6. Kf5 e2
7. Be4 e1=N
8. Bd5 c2
9. Bc4 c1=N
10. Bb5 Nc7
11. Ba4 any
12. Bd1+ Ne2
13. Be2+ Nf3
14. Bf3++

Different black King moves early on would allow white's d pawn to queen with check, and presumably would lead to quicker mates.

Well played!

Given that three former world chess champions (Karpov. Kasparov, Tal) plus a former losing finalist (Korchnoi) could not solve this over the board, we should not feel so bad that we needed some hints from you.

ReformedCharacter wrote:10. Bb5 Nc7

RC

As posted yesterday at 6:23 pm.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

ReformedCharacter wrote:10. Bb5 Nc7

RC

As posted yesterday at 6:23 pm.

Yes indeed, I was trying - rather ineptly - to say it was the correct move without commenting on 11. I'd guess you play to a pretty high standard. I don't but appreciate the games played by those who do.

RC

ReformedCharacter wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

ReformedCharacter wrote:10. Bb5 Nc7

RC

As posted yesterday at 6:23 pm.

Yes indeed, I was trying - rather ineptly - to say it was the correct move without commenting on 11. I'd guess you play to a pretty high standard. I don't but appreciate the games played by those who do.

RC

Yeah, but that was the solution!

I most certainly don't play to a high standard. That puzzle becomes straightforward once you've demonstrated the fate of white's passed pawn. Take that red herring out and there's only one line: find a way to checkmate with the bishop while evading the knights and keeping sufficient pressure to deny black any initiative.

As was pointed out early on, puzzles are different from real play. The knowledge that white should win tells us what to look for, but we still needed you to take out the big red herring!