The Lemon Fool

I think people should prepare the body to resist to the virus. Otherwise the liberty and democracy in the world is at risk.
We can't forget raw garlic, some vitamins, minerals, some anti inflamatories.

I've prepared my body to resist the virus.

With a little help from AstraZeneca and Moderna.

Paul

There have been pandemics as least as bad in the past and the world recovered for many years and that was without the help of vaccines. I therefore have hope for our future.

Dod

DrFfybes wrote:I've prepared my body to resist the virus.

With a little help from AstraZeneca and Moderna.

Paul

It was Phizer that helped prepare mine.

Mind you I have been using raw garlic for years, but that's just because I like it

even the vaccinated should not forget raw garlic, some vitamines, minerals, anti inflammatories.

Breelander wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:I've prepared my body to resist the virus.

With a little help from AstraZeneca and Moderna.

Paul

It was Phizer that helped prepare mine.

Are you sure it was a genuine one and not a misspelt Chinese knockoff from Amazon

Paul

Robert Malone MD presents an alternative to the mainstream narrative on liberty, democracy and the virus. The full interview is on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast #1757 on Spotify. Short clips are on Youtube but if you are interested in "alternative viewpoints" the whole podcast is worth a listen.

Dod101 wrote:There have been pandemics as least as bad in the past and the world recovered for many years and that was without the help of vaccines. I therefore have hope for our future.

The world did indeed recover from the 1918 flue epidemic ('Spanish flu') - with only around half-a-billion cases and a mere 25 million deaths (or perhaps twice that). No-one was vaccinated because there was no vaccine. Like COVID-19 and Ebola, it created a cytokine storm.

look wrote:even the vaccinated should not forget raw garlic, some vitamines, minerals, anti inflammatories.

Who said we have forgotten them? Not that they were much help in the pandemic.

Dod101 wrote:There have been pandemics as least as bad in the past and the world recovered for many years and that was without the help of vaccines. I therefore have hope for our future.

Dod

True, the human race was scarcely in any real danger, though many individuals were and are personally.

Arb.

stewamax wrote:

Dod101 wrote:There have been pandemics as least as bad in the past and the world recovered for many years and that was without the help of vaccines. I therefore have hope for our future.

The world did indeed recover from the 1918 flue epidemic ('Spanish flu') - with only around half-a-billion cases and a mere 25 million deaths (or perhaps twice that). No-one was vaccinated because there was no vaccine. Like COVID-19 and Ebola, it created a cytokine storm.

That "only" half a billion cases and "mere" 25-50 million deaths was out of a world population of circa 1,700 million at the time.

Now world population is circa 7,800 million and in the same ratio it would be 2,294 million cases and 114-229 million deaths.

In fact we've had only 311 million cases and 5.5 million deaths, so far at least. We've got off lucky, methinks...

mc2fool wrote:

stewamax wrote:

Dod101 wrote:There have been pandemics as least as bad in the past and the world recovered for many years and that was without the help of vaccines. I therefore have hope for our future.

The world did indeed recover from the 1918 flue epidemic ('Spanish flu') - with only around half-a-billion cases and a mere 25 million deaths (or perhaps twice that). No-one was vaccinated because there was no vaccine. Like COVID-19 and Ebola, it created a cytokine storm.

That "only" half a billion cases and "mere" 25-50 million deaths was out of a world population of circa 1,700 million at the time.

Now world population is circa 7,800 million and in the same ratio it would be 2,294 million cases and 114-229 million deaths.

In fact we've had only 311 million cases and 5.5 million deaths, so far at least. We've got off lucky, methinks...

Seeing these numbers the effect of the Spanish flu was staggering, I am just surprised that we tend to hear little about it. Of course my parents were quite young at the time and it would have had little impact on their lives. And that is a huge death rate out of the number infected, assuming of course the figures are at all accurate.

Dod

stewamax wrote:No-one was vaccinated because there was no vaccine.

Although there's a theory that the peak age of death being around 28 in 1918 and tailing off in older people (ie very different to normal flus and eg Covid-19) correlates suspiciously well with the timing of the "Russian flu" of 1889-90, implying the 1918 flu could have been a lot more deadly if the older generations hadn't been exposed to the vaccinating effect of the 1889-90 flu.

mc2fool wrote:In fact we've had only 311 million cases and 5.5 million deaths, so far at least. We've got off lucky, methinks...

You should probably take that 5.5m figure with a pinch of salt, and certainly not compare it with the estimates for 1918. For instance around 80% of deaths in India have no medical certification and Jha et al suggested that Indian Covid-19 deaths were undercounted by a factor of 6-7x.

The Economist estimates the actual global Covid-19 death toll is somewhere in the range of 12-22.4 million, with a central estimate of 19.1m, or 3.5x the official number of 5.5m.

Hallucigenia wrote:

mc2fool wrote:In fact we've had only 311 million cases and 5.5 million deaths, so far at least. We've got off lucky, methinks...

You should probably take that 5.5m figure with a pinch of salt, and certainly not compare it with the estimates for 1918. For instance around 80% of deaths in India have no medical certification and Jha et al suggested that Indian Covid-19 deaths were undercounted by a factor of 6-7x.

The Economist estimates the actual global Covid-19 death toll is somewhere in the range of 12-22.4 million, with a central estimate of 19.1m, or 3.5x the official number of 5.5m.

Yes, fair enough, we'll (probably) find out over time. Hopefully this time round we'll have a better idea of numbers, with the Spanish flu estimates ranging from 17 to 100 million, although 25-50m does seem to be the consensus. And, of course, the Black Death is reckoned to have killed 30-60% of Europe's population, with similar numbers for the Plague of Justinian in the 6-7th C.

Sky News 30th January 19:48

Robert F Kennedy Jnr accused by Sky of putting out and profiting from Covid disinformation by Sky

Sky’s Martha Kelner “I’ve been in hospitals where 99% of the people hooked up to ventilators struggling to breath are unvaccinated”

RFK : “I don’t believe that. What do you mean by unvaccinated?”

MK : “They’ve not had a vaccine”

1nvest wrote:Sky’s Martha Kelner “I’ve been in hospitals where 99% of the people hooked up to ventilators struggling to breath are unvaccinated”

RFK : “I don’t believe that. What do you mean by unvaccinated?”

https://news.sky.com/story/robert-f-ken ... s-12528811
FWIW, though, I don't believe the 99% figure either. In Britain, the BMJ says that the proportion in December was 61%, rising to 66% in London - although it had earlier been 75%. https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5

Two points seem worth making. First, America's right wing has a whole nother attitude to vaccination. But against that, vaccination is available to everyone, including undocumented illegals, so it doesn't seem inevitable that a fugitive underclass is going unvaccinated and taking a spreader risk.

And secondly, the BMJ is being quite careful in how it reports the UK figures:

The 61% figure is lower than the 80-90% reported at some hospitals. But the latest ICNARC data span only to 15 December, and the proportion of patients in intensive care who are unvaccinated may have increased as the omicron variant spread in December. Some hospitals will also have been more badly affected than others.

BJ

Many of the deaths, lest we forget, were simply a consequence of the Tories opting to export Covid patients out of the NHS and into care homes, along with failing to support the social care elements (many were having to make their own PPE out of the likes of local garden centre shoe covers and plastic bin liners). To add insult to injury there was even a clap for the NHS doing such a great job, whilst only after complaints was that extended to offering care home workers - a pin badge. 18,000 care homes across the UK, even on average losing a few clients, accounted for much of the earlier 'rapidly rising' death count.

For that alone the Tories should never be permitted to stand for re-election, as a minimum. Anyone supporting such evil ... !!!

1nvest wrote:Many of the deaths, lest we forget, were simply a consequence of the Tories opting to export Covid patients out of the NHS and into care homes, along with failing to support the social care elements (many were having to make their own PPE out of the likes of local garden centre shoe covers and plastic bin liners). To add insult to injury there was even a clap for the NHS doing such a great job, whilst only after complaints was that extended to offering care home workers - a pin badge. 18,000 care homes across the UK, even on average losing a few clients, accounted for much of the earlier 'rapidly rising' death count.

For that alone the Tories should never be permitted to stand for re-election, as a minimum. Anyone supporting such evil ... !!!

I have seldom read such claptrap on any social media site.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

1nvest wrote:Many of the deaths, lest we forget, were simply a consequence of the Tories opting to export Covid patients out of the NHS and into care homes, along with failing to support the social care elements (many were having to make their own PPE out of the likes of local garden centre shoe covers and plastic bin liners). To add insult to injury there was even a clap for the NHS doing such a great job, whilst only after complaints was that extended to offering care home workers - a pin badge. 18,000 care homes across the UK, even on average losing a few clients, accounted for much of the earlier 'rapidly rising' death count.

For that alone the Tories should never be permitted to stand for re-election, as a minimum. Anyone supporting such evil ... !!!

I have seldom read such claptrap on any social media site.

Dod

So you opine that the many social care homes that were put under immense pressures to accept NHS patients, despite their attempted resistance - didn't actually occur? Or that the after-thought of offering of pin-badges was 'blasted by care workers who have been begging the Government to supply missing PPE' .. never occurred? https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12693 ... care-badge

If so it is you that is being insincere (clap trap).

'For that alone the Tories should never be permitted to stand for re-election, as a minimum. Anyone supporting such evil ... !!!'

That is the part of the post that I think is claptrap. I do not disagree that it turned out to be a very unwise move to simply transfer patients from Hospitals to care homes without any real consideration of the possible consequences. This happened very early in the pandemic and as we will all remember the message and priority at that time was to 'protect the NHS'.

The general message at that time was 'we are all at risk' and 'the virus does not discriminate', and of course that the NHS must be protected. No one seems to have appreciated that most deaths for instance were likely to occur amongst the most vulnerable and that the residents of care homes were amongst them.

But evil? I don't think so. The Government was feeling its way between its natural instincts for liberty and the scientists/epidemiologists, most of whom wanted to keep the country in more or less permanent lockdown. Testing was anything but widespread at the time, and the NHS leaders unfortunately had a much stronger voice than the care home owners and managers.

In a democracy, your comments are just nonsensical claptrap (I am sorry to be so direct but sometimes that is the only thing people understand)

Dod