The Lemon Fool

Lootman wrote:If a pub doesn't want to serve me that has little effect on me. I just go to another pub down the street.

But a bank suddenly freezing my account and assets has a profound and almost immediate effect. Bills don't get paid, my income doesn't arrive and so on.

So a bank should not ban me just for no shirt or no shoes like a pub might. At minimum it should give me (say) 3 months notice and cooperate with me to transfer to another bank.

To me banking services are right up there in importance with water, food, energy, shelter etc. It should not matter whether I support Trump, Black Lives Matter, Putin, Israel or am neutral on such things.

The thing is that a lot of the people who support debanking really get off on it, like the cancel culture mobs on Twitter. Gives them a sense of power. Just look at the gleeful posts on TLF that support Coutts' position re. Farage.

There is an assumption that it's easy to get another bank account. It isn't, as Farage has shown. Once you've been banned from one bank you are put on a list that all other banks get to look at. Much easier for them to refuse to open an account if you're on the list.

Can't buy food because you can't get a card in the cashless society that's coming. That's your problem, not theirs. That's a feature for the debanking scumbags, not a bug.

Pretty soon they'll be agitating for the water companies to cut off prominent Brexiteers.

The only place I've been banned from is the Odeon Cinema in Taunton, because I wanted to take my motorcycle helmet into the cinema rather than leave it behind the counter. That's a bit more inconvenient than being banned from a pub, as there's more choice of pubs than cinemas.

But if I was banned from having a bank account I'd be [expletive deleted, past participle form]

Bank accounts are hard to get in many circumstances, homelessness, bankruptcy, criminality, poverty. In all cases the banks view the people as high risk. This is why basic bank accounts and credit unions were set up, as backstops. Because these backstops exist, banking regulators do not need to insist thank banks deal with everyone, as they do for utility companies, who respond with expensive solutions like prepayment meters. The situation is not equivalent with PEPs., who by their nature have influence and choices that the disenfranchised do not.

Coutts mistake was not to label Farage as

The notes say: "It's clear to me that NF has - and projects - xenophobic, chauvinistic and racist views, even though this is done within the law, or framed with sufficient ambiguity to claim malicious misquoting by his critics.

"At best he is seen as xenophobic and pandering to racists, and at worst, he is seen as xenophobic and racist."

which seems entirely accurate to me, but to initially claim they were disengaging on purely financial grounds. And the Nat West group wern't debanking him, they offered a standard Nat West account.

JohnB wrote:Coutts mistake was not to label Farage as

The notes say: "It's clear to me that NF has - and projects - xenophobic, chauvinistic and racist views, even though this is done within the law, or framed with sufficient ambiguity to claim malicious misquoting by his critics.

"At best he is seen as xenophobic and pandering to racists, and at worst, he is seen as xenophobic and racist."

which seems entirely accurate to me, but to initially claim they were disengaging on purely financial grounds. And the Nat West group wern't debanking him, they offered a standard Nat West account.

If Coutts were acting not on what NF said or did, but only on an alleged perception that he might be this or that, then that is a gross abuse of power. Because almost all of us could be "seen" or "perceived" as this or that bad thing. And if NF is "racist" then are all the 52% who voted for Brexit?

Again for example Corbyn can clearly be "seen" as antisemitic. So shut down his bank account?

And where exactly does that slippery slope end up?

Bank accounts are hard to get in many circumstances, homelessness, bankruptcy, criminality, poverty. In all cases the banks view the people as high risk.

I've had one main bank account for many years, but earlier this year opened a current account at another bank just in case.

SalvorHardin wrote:The thing is that a lot of the people who support debanking really get off on it, like the cancel culture mobs on Twitter. Gives them a sense of power. Just look at the gleeful posts on TLF that support Coutts' position re. Farage.

Where?

SalvorHardin wrote:Pretty soon they'll be agitating for the water companies to cut off prominent Brexiteers.

Seriously?

Mind you, now that you come to mention it...

SalvorHardin wrote:The thing is that a lot of the people who support debanking really get off on it, like the cancel culture mobs on Twitter. Gives them a sense of power. Just look at the gleeful posts on TLF that support Coutts' position re. Farage.

There is an assumption that it's easy to get another bank account. It isn't, as Farage has shown. Once you've been banned from one bank you are put on a list that all other banks get to look at. Much easier for them to refuse to open an account if you're on the list.

Can't buy food because you can't get a card in the cashless society that's coming. That's your problem, not theirs. That's a feature for the debanking scumbags, not a bug.

Pretty soon they'll be agitating for the water companies to cut off prominent Brexiteers.

The only place I've been banned from is the Odeon Cinema in Taunton, because I wanted to take my motorcycle helmet into the cinema rather than leave it behind the counter. That's a bit more inconvenient than being banned from a pub, as there's more choice of pubs than cinemas.

But if I was banned from having a bank account I'd be [expletive deleted, past participle form]

May I add gas and electricity?

When I first started pointing out that smart meters make it possible with the click of a mouse in Whitehall for a government to cut off the gas and electricity supplies to anyone whose views it disagrees with, it all seemed a bit far fetched. But now with all this debanking happening, it looks a whole lot more likely to me.

De-gasifying and de-electrifying troublesome citizens by mouse-click is much easier than cutting off their water supply, which still requires a visit the property.

Mike4 wrote:

SalvorHardin wrote:There is an assumption that it's easy to get another bank account. It isn't, as Farage has shown. Once you've been banned from one bank you are put on a list that all other banks get to look at.
Pretty soon they'll be agitating for the water companies to cut off prominent Brexiteers.

When I first started pointing out that smart meters make it possible with the click of a mouse in Whitehall for a government to cut off the gas and electricity supplies to anyone whose views it disagrees with, it all seemed a bit far fetched. But now with all this debanking happening, it looks a whole lot more likely to me.

And with the ridiculous amount of superfluous electronic gubbins that some people blindly accept in cars nowadays, decaring them looks perfectly feasible as well.
And then they could be deOystered and debuspassed.

The Chinese communists are already well down that road, and if we had to use our real names on social media as with the BBC comments, I reckon many of us would do well to pipe down.

V8

88V8 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:When I first started pointing out that smart meters make it possible with the click of a mouse in Whitehall for a government to cut off the gas and electricity supplies to anyone whose views it disagrees with, it all seemed a bit far fetched. But now with all this debanking happening, it looks a whole lot more likely to me.

And with the ridiculous amount of superfluous electronic gubbins that some people blindly accept in cars nowadays, decaring them looks perfectly feasible as well.
And then they could be deOystered and debuspassed.

The Chinese communists are already well down that road, and if we had to use our real names on social media as with the BBC comments, I reckon many of us would do well to pipe down.

V8

You read my mind. This is one of the (many) reasons I stick to driving a ten year old van. A new ULEZ-compliant one will be mandatorily internet-connected, supposedly so the van can automatically "Call the emergency services in the event of an accident" apparently. What a load of utter boIIocks.

I'm staggered most people seem to swallow this whole. It is so they can track where you are and turn your vehicle off should they feel the need to, or should the instruction from Whitehall come, as any fule kno.

Mike4 wrote:

88V8 wrote:And with the ridiculous amount of superfluous electronic gubbins that some people blindly accept in cars nowadays, decaring them looks perfectly feasible as well.
And then they could be deOystered and debuspassed.

The Chinese communists are already well down that road, and if we had to use our real names on social media as with the BBC comments, I reckon many of us would do well to pipe down.

You read my mind. This is one of the (many) reasons I stick to driving a ten year old van. A new ULEZ-compliant one will be mandatorily internet-connected, supposedly so the van can automatically "Call the emergency services in the event of an accident" apparently. What a load of utter boIIocks.

I'm staggered most people seem to swallow this whole. It is so they can track where you are and turn your vehicle off should they feel the need to, or should the instruction from Whitehall come, as any fule kno.

Indeed. Late with your car payment? A clerk in India can immobilise your vehicle from Bangalore with a single click. And then send your location to a repo man.

Well Mike , yes , but do not forget that education has been dumbed down now for well over 40 years , what do you expect . ?

Nemo wrote:I've had one main bank account for many years, but earlier this year opened a current account at another bank just in case.

I have had two (well actually three) for many years. Let us be honest, it is harder for you to get a new bank account than for a bank to refuse your actions, because another bank has frozen your account. Sure they could be required to do so, but only due to a criminal investigation.

I also have "non" bank accounts. I can use a debit card to pay for things with those accounts. I'm less sure that those accounts can receive funds from my ISA or SIPP, which would be a problem these days.

SPURLEY wrote:Well Mike , yes , but do not forget that education has been dumbed down now for well over 40 years , what do you expect . ?

A Spanish inquisition....

Urbandreamer wrote:

Nemo wrote:I've had one main bank account for many years, but earlier this year opened a current account at another bank just in case.

I have had two (well actually three) for many years. Let us be honest, it is harder for you to get a new bank account than for a bank to refuse your actions, because another bank has frozen your account. Sure they could be required to do so, but only due to a criminal investigation.

I also have "non" bank accounts. I can use a debit card to pay for things with those accounts. I'm less sure that those accounts can receive funds from my ISA or SIPP, which would be a problem these days.

Curious now. Do Nationwide offer current accounts?

I wonder, because AIUI they are not a bank.

Mike4 wrote:Curious now. Do Nationwide offer current accounts?

I wonder, because AIUI they are not a bank.

They do. The distinction between banks and BSs is largely defunct.

Mike4 wrote:

SPURLEY wrote:Well Mike , yes , but do not forget that education has been dumbed down now for well over 40 years , what do you expect . ?

A Spanish inquisition....

ARGH, but nobody expects the Spanish inquisition..

OH NO... not the comfy chair....
NO not the comfy chair!

Sorry, but you do have to be of an age to get the ref.

Lootman wrote:Again for example Corbyn can clearly be "seen" as antisemitic. So shut down his bank account?

And where exactly does that slippery slope end up?

Fewer antisemitics?
doolally

Mike4 wrote:

Urbandreamer wrote:
I have had two (well actually three) for many years. Let us be honest, it is harder for you to get a new bank account than for a bank to refuse your actions, because another bank has frozen your account. Sure they could be required to do so, but only due to a criminal investigation.

I also have "non" bank accounts. I can use a debit card to pay for things with those accounts. I'm less sure that those accounts can receive funds from my ISA or SIPP, which would be a problem these days.

Curious now. Do Nationwide offer current accounts?

I wonder, because AIUI they are not a bank.

Sorry, didn't notice this post. I have an account and joint account with them, but for the sake of this discussion I do think that we should assume that they are a "Bank".

Just a we should ignore the history of Barclays and assume that they act as all other banks, rather than applying religious morals about who they deal with.

Ps Barclays were Quaker and other banks tried to put them out of business in their early years. Somewhat later questions were raised about their provision of banking services in South Africa, by many Quakers when De Klerk was in power, they didn't think things were progressing.

Urbandreamer wrote:Ps Barclays were Quaker and other banks tried to put them out of business in their early years. Somewhat later questions were raised about their provision of banking services in South Africa, by many Quakers when De Klerk was in power, they didn't think things were progressing.

Standard Chartered also had a lot of South African interests.

Back when I was a long-haired socialist student in the 1970s I went on protests against both. I ended up working for both

Mike4 wrote:

Urbandreamer wrote:I also have "non" bank accounts. I can use a debit card to pay for things with those accounts. I'm less sure that those accounts can receive funds from my ISA or SIPP, which would be a problem these days.

Curious now. Do Nationwide offer current accounts?

Yes. And have done for quite a few years now.

XFool wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Curious now. Do Nationwide offer current accounts?

Yes. And have done for quite a few years now.

I wonder if they see the need to operate similar de-banking policies, not being a bank.

As a mutual building society owned by the members, their interests and policies might be aligned slightly differently from the 'proper' banks.