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Musk endeavours

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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#442669

Postby odysseus2000 » September 16th, 2021, 1:16 am

Inspiration now in orbit after great launch:

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/14382 ... 79712?s=20

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BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#442735

Postby BobbyD » September 16th, 2021, 12:13 pm

More from Moneyball (https://twitter.com/DKurac):

Tesla MIC Aug insured units:
Model 3: 1,273
Model Y: 1,529
(CBIRC via 汽车电子设计)


- https://twitter.com/DKurac/status/1436703538361495555

China NEV Aug Insured Units - Top 26 models:

Image

Image

- https://twitter.com/DKurac?ref_src=twsr ... r%5Eauthor

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#442779

Postby odysseus2000 » September 16th, 2021, 3:02 pm


odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#442827

Postby odysseus2000 » September 16th, 2021, 9:02 pm

Interesting & short video on Tesla glass used in their vehicles:

https://youtu.be/CorrbelUSIE

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Re: Musk endeavours

#442865

Postby BobbyD » September 17th, 2021, 12:59 am

The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla


- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443107

Postby BobbyD » September 17th, 2021, 5:48 pm

Cathie Wood’s Tesla Stock Sales Hit $297 Million This Month...


- https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanpo ... g-instead/

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#443180

Postby odysseus2000 » September 17th, 2021, 10:07 pm

BobbyD wrote:
The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla


- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla


And rather expensive at around $160k.

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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#443181

Postby odysseus2000 » September 17th, 2021, 10:09 pm

BobbyD wrote:
Cathie Wood’s Tesla Stock Sales Hit $297 Million This Month...


- https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanpo ... g-instead/


Cathy Wood and her team are good investors, but their ability as traders is quite poor.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443202

Postby odysseus2000 » September 17th, 2021, 11:37 pm

Munroe on Mini-Cooper SE electric. Clear Frankenstein of the petrol model replaced by an electric motor with a range of about 100 miles:

https://youtu.be/CyV-W8dRhEI

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443209

Postby BobbyD » September 18th, 2021, 12:10 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla


- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla


And rather expensive at around $160k.

Regards,


Compare to say the Plaid with a measly 400 mile range for £120,000?

I had a strange feeling range was going to cease being the single most important in a BEV right about now....

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443213

Postby odysseus2000 » September 18th, 2021, 12:46 am

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:


And rather expensive at around $160k.

Regards,


Compare to say the Plaid with a measly 400 mile range for £120,000?

I had a strange feeling range was going to cease being the single most important in a BEV right about now....


Yes, but the Lucid folk seem less keen on talking about performance. As the Lucid between to Germany to go around the ring?

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443223

Postby Itsallaguess » September 18th, 2021, 6:04 am

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla

- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla


And rather expensive at around $160k.


Compare to say the Plaid with a measly 400 mile range for £120,000?

I had a strange feeling range was going to cease being the single most important in a BEV right about now....


It's better than that though, isn't it?

Tesla's 'high-end expense' coupled with 'high-end performance' was one of the things that clearly and importantly set them apart from the hoi-polloi ten minutes ago, and suddenly, erm, it's not....

Surely Ody can see the inconsistencies in his own pro-Tesla arguments here?

I mean, only a blind man wouldn't, surely....

odysseus2000 wrote:
The new Model S, Model X are pitched at folk for whom the entry price is a very small fraction of their net worth. This demographic can buy anything that any auto maker puts out and all the automakers have expensive cars to sell to these rich folk.

The predominant question for the engineering teams is how to get a rich person to buy your car and not one from another maker. One way to do this is to present your car as the best car that can be bought in terms of performance, hence the extremely quick 0-60 times etc.

One can ask why even bother aiming at this demographic when there are many more potential buyers who can only afford a less expensive car. There are several answers to this: Top of the range cars, don't cost that much more to make and thence have better margins. Also by creating such a fast car you are demonstrating the prowess of your engineering teams and implying that a less powerful and more affordable machine will still be designed by some of the best auto engineers in the business, adding status and cred to your less powerful offerings.

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=5037&p=382329#p382329

odysseus2000 wrote:
Someone buys a new car, say a Kia, Ford, Vauxhall... hardly anyone cares, folk just yawn.

Someone buys a Ferrari and even the folk who know nothing about cars will know that this isn't a base car, that the person who is buying it is wealthy with a high social position in society.

It takes a lot of effort to build a brand and command higher margin profits, but the business that do become more than the boring household names just by virtue of lower sales of much more expensive cars.

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=5037&p=420946#p420946

If we have to go back through this 380-page thread and point out all the times that Ody has raised the 'Apple' approach as being exactly the right one to aim for with regards to Tesla focussing on high net-worth drivers, then I would hope we'd agree that there'd be too many quotes to sensibly link to...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443274

Postby odysseus2000 » September 18th, 2021, 11:32 am

If we have to go back through this 380-page thread and point out all the times that Ody has raised the 'Apple' approach as being exactly the right one to aim for with regards to Tesla focussing on high net-worth drivers, then I would hope we'd agree that there'd be too many quotes to sensibly link to...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


Ha Ha, Yes, but Tesla was first mover in this space and used the "Apple model" to kick start the industry and to build its dominant position in the BEV market with both models and Super Charger deployment.

It is now much harder for a competitor like Lucid to come in as while Tesla was competing with no one, Lucid is competing with Tesla and legacy and a growing bunch of Chinese marques.

The market is now very different than when Tesla began with much more BEV choice. What does Lucid offer? Circa 20% better range than the long range Tesla and that seems to be it, at a relatively high price.

Tesla is the Apple of BEV, all other competitors now have to compete against them in terms of capital, technical developments, innovation, brand recognition, performance,...etc.

There were a few times in Tesla's history when it was weak and vulnerable and when concerted effort by a legacy maker could have created potential mortal wounds, but that opportunity for legacy has gone.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443286

Postby BobbyD » September 18th, 2021, 12:18 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
Surely Ody can see the inconsistencies in his own pro-Tesla arguments here?


There's a first time for everything, so they say.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443288

Postby BobbyD » September 18th, 2021, 12:19 pm

BobbyD wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:
Surely Ody can see the inconsistencies in his own pro-Tesla arguments here?


There's a first time for everything, so they say.

odysseus2000 wrote:
Ha Ha, Yes, but Tesla was first mover in this space and used the "Apple model" to kick start the industry and to build its dominant position in the BEV market with both models and Super Charger deployment.

It is now much harder for a competitor like Lucid to come in as while Tesla was competing with no one, Lucid is competing with Tesla and legacy and a growing bunch of Chinese marques.

The market is now very different than when Tesla began with much more BEV choice. What does Lucid offer? Circa 20% better range than the long range Tesla and that seems to be it, at a relatively high price.

Tesla is the Apple of BEV, all other competitors now have to compete against them in terms of capital, technical developments, innovation, brand recognition, performance,...etc.

There were a few times in Tesla's history when it was weak and vulnerable and when concerted effort by a legacy maker could have created potential mortal wounds, but that opportunity for legacy has gone.

Regards,


However I suspect Ody is as likely to see the inherent contradictions in his constant ramping of Tesla as Tesla are to actually produce the new Roadster (scheduled for a 2014 reelease), or a functioning Autonomous car.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443291

Postby odysseus2000 » September 18th, 2021, 12:31 pm

BobbyD
However I suspect Ody is as likely to see the inherent contradictions in his constant ramping of Tesla as Tesla are to actually produce the new Roadster (scheduled for a 2014 reelease), or a functioning Autonomous car.


Facts and business and marketing are a complex mix of promise, expectation and a whole host of other stuff.

Most people in the developed world have heard of Musk but i doubt many could tell you who runs GM, Ford, VW, Toyota, Mercedes etc. Sure Tesla have not delivered on some of their promises, but they have delivered on enough to take the top spot in the BEV world and with a visionary CEO who has a global profile and with shareholders who have done very well. This is exactly what Jobs did with Apple and as we know competitors to Apple generally have a hard time of it.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443292

Postby Howard » September 18th, 2021, 12:33 pm

Once BEVs have a real range of over 400 miles in winter conditions it's likely that most customers won't bother about remote charging as it will rarely be necessary. A 7kW home charger will put a lot of mileage into a BEV overnight.

As a driver of a relatively modestly priced BEV with a range of 250 - 300 miles depending on driving conditions I have only once connected it to a public charger and that was for fun to see how it worked. We have got used to topping up to 80% every time the range drops below 100 miles or so.

Obviously for drivers who are covering 20k miles or more per year, remote charging is more important. However in my experience affluent drivers who can afford £100k+ cars usually don't cover that sort of mileage. They have staff to do that for them ;) . And a charger at the office too.

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443297

Postby BobbyD » September 18th, 2021, 1:08 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:Most people in the developed world have heard of Musk...


citation required

odysseus2000 wrote:...but i doubt many could tell you who runs GM, Ford, VW, Toyota, Mercedes etc.


Literally so what? I'd imagine the number of CEO's with greater than 50% name recognition in the developed world is somewhere around 0, to consumers it is completely unimportant. Elizabeth Holmes had great name recognition though, and a so so record of delivery...

odysseus2000 wrote:Sure Tesla have not delivered on some of their promises...


...over half of announced products.

odysseus2000 wrote:...but they have delivered on enough to take the top spot in the BEV world


...they entered a market before it was in the best interests of their competition to do so. They are literally playing a different game to established auto at this stage, and comparing scores is as ridiculous as comparing rugby and football scorelines. That said the only market they are still a dominant force in is their home market, which is virtually uncontested at the moment, although VW European overspill has mopped up about 8% of it.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443417

Postby odysseus2000 » September 18th, 2021, 9:48 pm

Howard
Once BEVs have a real range of over 400 miles in winter conditions it's likely that most customers won't bother about remote charging as it will rarely be necessary. A 7kW home charger will put a lot of mileage into a BEV overnight.


Yes, but many folk have on-street parking and with out someone providing on street charging such an owner will have to go a super charger or equivalent.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#443418

Postby odysseus2000 » September 18th, 2021, 9:53 pm

BobbyD
...they entered a market before it was in the best interests of their competition to do so. They are literally playing a different game to established auto at this stage, and comparing scores is as ridiculous as comparing rugby and football scorelines. That said the only market they are still a dominant force in is their home market, which is virtually uncontested at the moment, although VW European overspill has mopped up about 8% of it.


GM were first in the BEV market, but decided BEV might hurt gasoline sales and so they recalled all their EV1 cars with Sherifs to enforce the recall and crushed them.

Without Tesla legacy was happy to churn out ICE, but Tesla made that impossible and so they are slowly entering the BEV market with bad grace while still wanting to carry on selling ICE and/or hybrids with ICE engines.

Regards,


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