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Musk endeavours

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TheMotorcycleBoy
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Re: Musk endeavours

#517601

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » July 27th, 2022, 11:27 am

BobbyD wrote:
TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:Hi folks,

I'd been wanting to add exposure to battery storage in my investments and was shocked and disappointed to discover that my broker (iWeb) don't have access to Gresham House Energy Storage Fund PLC LON: GRID. I then decided that a reasonable plan might be to add TSLA shares since they have an Li battery business as well as the cars.

However, what I was wondering was the answers to the following:

1. the % of sales and earnings contributed by the battery business to Tesla on the whole.
2. the rate of growth of these for the battery side of the business.

Has anyone on here got a rough idea of these figures?

thanks Matt


It strikes me as a terrible proxy for GRID.

You're right. I downloaded TSLAs FY21,

Energy generation and storage = $1,994USD
Total revenues = $31,536USD

Not a good plan!

I'd definitely also consider that despite all the bold talk some years back Tesla is a customer for batteries like every other auto company, and their inability to bring the cybertruck, the Semi or the roadster to market appear to be largely due to their complete inability to produce their much hyped new battery in anything close to commercial quantities.

Why not just open an account with a new broker, if GRID is the investment you decided on?

Hell VW have a better portfolio of battery assets than Tesla!

Uh huh...
Personally I'd rather like GRID to go back down so I can buy some more...

Please don't mention the name. I'm still upset. :(

Edited to add: You can I think hold Gore Street Energy Storage on iWeb. Not a recommendation I haven't looked at them for donkeys, and plumped for Gresham House instead.

Ta, will check out.

Matt

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#517629

Postby odysseus2000 » July 27th, 2022, 1:12 pm

Interesting 10 minute ish video on solar panel recycling;

https://youtu.be/fU8C5t2Jl48

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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#517720

Postby odysseus2000 » July 27th, 2022, 6:35 pm

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:Hi folks,

I'd been wanting to add exposure to battery storage in my investments and was shocked and disappointed to discover that my broker (iWeb) don't have access to Gresham House Energy Storage Fund PLC LON: GRID. I then decided that a reasonable plan might be to add TSLA shares since they have an Li battery business as well as the cars.

However, what I was wondering was the answers to the following:

1. the % of sales and earnings contributed by the battery business to Tesla on the whole.
2. the rate of growth of these for the battery side of the business.

Has anyone on here got a rough idea of these figures?

thanks Matt


It strikes me as a terrible proxy for GRID.

You're right. I downloaded TSLAs FY21,

Energy generation and storage = $1,994USD
Total revenues = $31,536USD

Not a good plan!

I'd definitely also consider that despite all the bold talk some years back Tesla is a customer for batteries like every other auto company, and their inability to bring the cybertruck, the Semi or the roadster to market appear to be largely due to their complete inability to produce their much hyped new battery in anything close to commercial quantities.

Why not just open an account with a new broker, if GRID is the investment you decided on?

Hell VW have a better portfolio of battery assets than Tesla!

Uh huh...
Personally I'd rather like GRID to go back down so I can buy some more...

Please don't mention the name. I'm still upset. :(

Edited to add: You can I think hold Gore Street Energy Storage on iWeb. Not a recommendation I haven't looked at them for donkeys, and plumped for Gresham House instead.

Ta, will check out.

Matt


The problem with batteries and panels as an investment is that they are predominantly commodities with little difference. Tesla tiles are different but this market is mostly new build and builders are notorious for making new houses as cheap as possible.

If e.g. Mr & Mrs Jones, want solar or batteries or car company wants batteries etc then the usual choice is the lowest price.

By contrast if Mr & Mrs Jones want an electric car they can either buy a low spec legacy auto product, or for similar money a Tesla. Given the performance, safety, kudos and re-sale value, a Tesla is a far more attractive proposition. Obviously some will still buy by price, but many, in the luxury car sector, are often well clued up and want the best. This allows Tesla to have a higher margin, as does Apple in consumer electronics for similar reason.

Every time I have looked at "picks and shovel" and compared them to end maker, the end maker has been a far more successful investment. Every now and then there are exceptions, but mostly its when a supplier has something that the end maker must have and hence the supplier can have good margins.

The other relevant point is whether German makers will be power rationed this winter if Russian gas supply is kept low. If this happens it will hurt Tesla Berlin but do even more damage to makers with more factories in Germany. If is however complicated since one has cross currents of auto demand down, solar panels/batteries maybe up as German's seek alternatives energy. It is a recipe for volatility and it is not clear to me what will happen to battery/panel prices in such a scenario.

Regards,

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#519186

Postby odysseus2000 » August 2nd, 2022, 3:03 pm

More charging for Tesla and other BEV:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-brillia ... -charging/

Regards,

BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#519938

Postby BobbyD » August 4th, 2022, 9:50 pm

US-built 2023 VW ID.4 starts lower at $37,495, under $30k after credits


- https://electrek.co/2022/08/04/2023-vw- ... r-credits/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#520481

Postby BobbyD » August 7th, 2022, 12:40 pm

California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and Full-Self Driving

Tesla allegedly made ‘untrue or misleading’ claims about its cars’ self-driving capabilities

California’s Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) has accused Tesla of falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving (FSD) features, as reported earlier by the Los Angeles Times (via CNBC). The agency filed two separate complaints with the state’s Office of Administrative Hearings on July 28th, alleging Tesla made “untrue or misleading” claims about its vehicles’ autonomous driving capabilities.

In the filings, the DMV claims the names of Tesla’s Autopilot and FSD features, as well as the language the company uses to describe them, wrongly imply that cars equipped with the technology can operate autonomously. The DMV specifically points to the information on Tesla’s Autopilot page, which states its FSD system “is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat” and is capable of “navigating urban streets, complex intersections and freeways.”


- https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/6/23294 ... s-vehicles

ReformedCharacter
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520490

Postby ReformedCharacter » August 7th, 2022, 1:13 pm

BobbyD wrote:
California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and Full-Self Driving

Tesla allegedly made ‘untrue or misleading’ claims about its cars’ self-driving capabilities

California’s Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) has accused Tesla of falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving (FSD) features, as reported earlier by the Los Angeles Times (via CNBC). The agency filed two separate complaints with the state’s Office of Administrative Hearings on July 28th, alleging Tesla made “untrue or misleading” claims about its vehicles’ autonomous driving capabilities.

In the filings, the DMV claims the names of Tesla’s Autopilot and FSD features, as well as the language the company uses to describe them, wrongly imply that cars equipped with the technology can operate autonomously. The DMV specifically points to the information on Tesla’s Autopilot page, which states its FSD system “is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat” and is capable of “navigating urban streets, complex intersections and freeways.”


- https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/6/23294 ... s-vehicles

I'm surprised it's taken this long.

RC

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Re: Musk endeavours

#520572

Postby odysseus2000 » August 7th, 2022, 7:19 pm

Tesla annual meeting, full of super interesting insights (approx 1 hr 13 minutes):

https://youtu.be/49e7LrxS3FQ

Regards,

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520576

Postby odysseus2000 » August 7th, 2022, 7:26 pm

BobbyD wrote:
California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and Full-Self Driving

Tesla allegedly made ‘untrue or misleading’ claims about its cars’ self-driving capabilities

California’s Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) has accused Tesla of falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving (FSD) features, as reported earlier by the Los Angeles Times (via CNBC). The agency filed two separate complaints with the state’s Office of Administrative Hearings on July 28th, alleging Tesla made “untrue or misleading” claims about its vehicles’ autonomous driving capabilities.

In the filings, the DMV claims the names of Tesla’s Autopilot and FSD features, as well as the language the company uses to describe them, wrongly imply that cars equipped with the technology can operate autonomously. The DMV specifically points to the information on Tesla’s Autopilot page, which states its FSD system “is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat” and is capable of “navigating urban streets, complex intersections and freeways.”


- https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/6/23294 ... s-vehicles


The problem with this suit is that Tesla do not claim that what they call full self driving is full self driving in the description. They do not for example claim it has level 5 capability.

Retailing is littered with titles that could be construed as misleading: everlasting sweets, 5 minute dry cleaning,…

This suit will have to prove that people who are spending 50k+ are too stupid to understand that the description does not match the title. The suit might win in lower courts but the higher it goes the less likely are victories.

Regards,

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520577

Postby odysseus2000 » August 7th, 2022, 7:30 pm

Interestingly I was talking to a bunch of young German physicists & asking about their opinion on German legacy auto. They don’t like any thing about it, dislike e-fuels & were extremely negative on VW for its attitudes & it’s diesel gate.

Once an industry gets this kind of a reputation it will not attract good people & all the seeds of its death are being scattered.

Regards,

BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520579

Postby BobbyD » August 7th, 2022, 7:36 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:The problem with this suit is that Tesla do not claim that what they call full self driving is full self driving in the description. They do not for example claim it has level 5 capability.


Except that isn't true.

To give one simple example the video embedded on the Tesla autopilot webpage still starts with the disclaimer that

'THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS.

HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING, THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF'.

- https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

The video shows a Tesla operating on public roads.

You know this because we have covered it many times before.

TUK020
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520662

Postby TUK020 » August 8th, 2022, 8:19 am

odysseus2000 wrote:Once an industry gets this kind of a reputation it will not attract good people & all the seeds of its death are being scattered.

BobbyD wrote:
To give one simple example the video embedded on the Tesla autopilot webpage still starts with the disclaimer that

'THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS.

HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING, THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF'.


Impressive ability to withstand cognitive dissonance.
Not sure if this is a display of outstanding intellect, or of self delusion

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520777

Postby odysseus2000 » August 8th, 2022, 4:57 pm

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:The problem with this suit is that Tesla do not claim that what they call full self driving is full self driving in the description. They do not for example claim it has level 5 capability.


Except that isn't true.

To give one simple example the video embedded on the Tesla autopilot webpage still starts with the disclaimer that

'THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS.

HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING, THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF'.

- https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

The video shows a Tesla operating on public roads.

You know this because we have covered it many times before.


You do make some strange connections.

The video shows a man being driven by a car. It does not say that if you buy autopilot that this will be what you get. It is referring to this particular situation.

Regards,

BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520779

Postby BobbyD » August 8th, 2022, 5:11 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:The problem with this suit is that Tesla do not claim that what they call full self driving is full self driving in the description. They do not for example claim it has level 5 capability.


Except that isn't true.

To give one simple example the video embedded on the Tesla autopilot webpage still starts with the disclaimer that

'THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS.

HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING, THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF'.

- https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

The video shows a Tesla operating on public roads.

You know this because we have covered it many times before.


You do make some strange connections.

The video shows a man being driven by a car. It does not say that if you buy autopilot that this will be what you get. It is referring to this particular situation.

Regards,


What a strange connection, connecting a video on the product page, to that product! What a wild leap I made.

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520834

Postby odysseus2000 » August 8th, 2022, 9:02 pm

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:The problem with this suit is that Tesla do not claim that what they call full self driving is full self driving in the description. They do not for example claim it has level 5 capability.


Except that isn't true.

To give one simple example the video embedded on the Tesla autopilot webpage still starts with the disclaimer that

'THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS.

HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING, THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF'.

- https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

The video shows a Tesla operating on public roads.

You know this because we have covered it many times before.


You do make some strange connections.

The video shows a man being driven by a car. It does not say that if you buy autopilot that this will be what you get. It is referring to this particular situation.

Regards,


What a strange connection, connecting a video on the product page, to that product! What a wild leap I made.


If you buy a box of Milk Tray chocolates, do you expect it will be collected by a man who will then put it by a beautiful woman?

Or if you buy a bottle of a hair shampoo that has a beautiful woman on the front that after using the shampoo you will look like the picture?

Regards,

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520836

Postby odysseus2000 » August 8th, 2022, 9:04 pm

US gets serious about clean vehicles:

https://twitter.com/smartertrader/statu ... STEHGfbkEg

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BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520859

Postby BobbyD » August 9th, 2022, 2:43 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:The problem with this suit is that Tesla do not claim that what they call full self driving is full self driving in the description. They do not for example claim it has level 5 capability.


Except that isn't true.

To give one simple example the video embedded on the Tesla autopilot webpage still starts with the disclaimer that

'THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS.

HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING, THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF'.

- https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/autopilot

The video shows a Tesla operating on public roads.

You know this because we have covered it many times before.


You do make some strange connections.

The video shows a man being driven by a car. It does not say that if you buy autopilot that this will be what you get. It is referring to this particular situation.

Regards,


What a strange connection, connecting a video on the product page, to that product! What a wild leap I made.


If you buy a box of Milk Tray chocolates, do you expect it will be collected by a man who will then put it by a beautiful woman?

Or if you buy a bottle of a hair shampoo that has a beautiful woman on the front that after using the shampoo you will look like the picture?

Regards,


Jesus H. Christ

Itsallaguess
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520863

Postby Itsallaguess » August 9th, 2022, 5:53 am

BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
If you buy a box of Milk Tray chocolates, do you expect it will be collected by a man who will then put it by a beautiful woman?


Jesus H. Christ


Well he wasn't known for the type of black attire required for that type of advert, but I suppose you could ask him...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

TUK020
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Re: Musk endeavours

#520883

Postby TUK020 » August 9th, 2022, 7:51 am

Itsallaguess wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
If you buy a box of Milk Tray chocolates, do you expect it will be collected by a man who will then put it by a beautiful woman?


Jesus H. Christ


Well he wasn't known for the type of black attire required for that type of advert, but I suppose you could ask him...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

How many would the chocolates feed?

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Re: Musk endeavours

#520889

Postby GoSeigen » August 9th, 2022, 8:16 am

So Ody's position now is that Tesla's claims about the abilities of autodrive are nothing more than exaggerated, fantasy advertising copy. Is that consistent with his past statements or has there been an epiphany?

GS


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