Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

[Lootman]

Surprising. Rowan Atkinson - yes, Mr Bean - studied Electrical Engineering.
Here’s his take on electric cars.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-atkinson

“I tend to say that if their car is an old diesel and they do a lot of city centre motoring, they should consider a change. But otherwise, hold fire for now. Electric propulsion will be of real, global environmental benefit one day, but that day has yet to dawn.”

Which fits with my views.

Yes, I read that earlier today, and it resonated also.

Too soon, still.

[odysseus2000]

It is pretty easy to see why Rowan went into Show Business.

His article shows he has not researched the subject.

The heavy cobalt use in BEV is over as most are now using iron phosphate, batteries are close to 100% recyclable and the claims about the extra co2 make no sense.

He does not understand how alternative fuels are created and the costs, is hopelessly wrong about hydrogen and seems to think that someone selling a 3 year old car is being profligate, rather than not wishing to pay repair bills as a car moves out of warranty whereas the buyer gets if for a lot less and is prepared for some repair costs.

Regards,

[scotview]

It is pretty easy to see why Rowan went into Show Business.

Regards,

We have a BEV and an ICE. The BEV for local journeys and the ICE for longer trips.

The BEV transition is nowhere near ready to replace ICE transport.

Regardless of what Rowan says.

[Lootman]

The BEV transition is nowhere near ready to replace ICE transport.

Regardless of what Rowan says.

But isn't that what Rowan is saying anyway?

[DrFfybes]

It is pretty easy to see why Rowan went into Show Business.

His article shows he has not researched the subject.

The heavy cobalt use in BEV is over as most are now using iron phosphate, batteries are close to 100% recyclable and the claims about the extra co2 make no sense.

He does not understand how alternative fuels are created and the costs, is hopelessly wrong about hydrogen and seems to think that someone selling a 3 year old car is being profligate, rather than not wishing to pay repair bills as a car moves out of warranty whereas the buyer gets if for a lot less and is prepared for some repair costs

Well at least he got one out of 6.

The repair costs of out last 2 Toyotas (both acquired at circa 3 years) old have been virtually nil, Probbly £2k in non consumables/service in 150,000 miles.

However, our /bangernomics' model may not work so well once we have to factor in the lifespan of expensive battery packs. I wonder how many 30 year old Leafs will still be running, compared to 30 year old Micras now.

Paul

[XFool]

The BEV transition is nowhere near ready to replace ICE transport.

Regardless of what Rowan says.

But isn't that what Rowan is saying anyway?

That is what I nearly posted...

Lootman! I keep agreeing with you today. Better check my temperature...

[scrumpyjack]

Obviously the transition to BEV takes time.

For me, living in the countryside, having a home charger, journeys hardly ever being more than a 150 mile round trip, the ID4 is ideal. I've had it 2 years and only topped up twice away from home (at a Tesco - no problem). I also have a diesel (10 year old Golf) which I hardly ever use.

But if I was a flat dweller in a city, or a sales rep hammering up and down the motorways, (or a luvvie in Islington ), it wouldn't work at present.

The technology of batteries is moving on and I read the other day they will be able to double the capacity in the not too distant future.
The charging infrastructure will catch up (they recently opened a 16 bay 150kw BP station near us).

I'm sure Rowan means well but, (subjective view), like most actors his opinions on everything else are not worth listening to. After all, their training focusses on presentation above all else.

[Lootman]

Obviously the transition to BEV takes time.

And that is fine except that the government has already decided how long that time is, if it follows through with a ban on the sale of new ICE vehicles by 2030. And if EVs are still not ready for prime time by then, at least for the demographics you described, then what?

Now I can go out on December 31st 2029, buy two new ICE vehicles, and at my age be confident that I will never need an EV. As long as all the petrol stations don't close I will be fine.

But 7 years really isn't that long, and in my view should be reconsidered.

[scrumpyjack]

Obviously the transition to BEV takes time.

And that is fine except that the government has already decided how long that time is, if it follows through with a ban on the sale of new ICE vehicles by 2030. And if EVs are still not ready for prime time by then, at least for the demographics you described, then what?

Well I suppose if, as we near their date, we clearly are not ready, they can postpone, as I'm sure they will have to do with gas and oil boilers, as heat pumps are not going to be the answer for many homes. Perhaps the thinking (if the blob thought at all!) was that only by having an ambitious timescale would industry push to make the necessary changes. Personally I'm not convinced by the whole net zero argument, but on the other hand assuming there is a significant chance it is all correct, we can't take the risk of not doing it. However we are such a tiny proportion of the world economy whatever we do or don't do won't make much difference to the overall outcome so there's no point stuffing ourselves whilst the rest of world carries on like there's no tomorrow.

[PeterGray]

Well at least he got one out of 6.

The repair costs of out last 2 Toyotas (both acquired at circa 3 years) old have been virtually nil, Probbly £2k in non consumables/service in 150,000 miles.

However, our /bangernomics' model may not work so well once we have to factor in the lifespan of expensive battery packs. I wonder how many 30 year old Leafs will still be running, compared to 30 year old Micras now.

Paul

I agree, Our 13 year old Golf keeps working well and reliably. Just the routine repairs you expect on any car more than around 3 years old - new tryres, brake pads etc. Is buying a new car after 3 years or less profligate? Not the most resource effective approach. But, of course the essential key to the economics of replacing cars after 3 years is that you can get a good second had price. Which, of course, indicates that they still have significant value and can go on performing their function for quite a few more years! If all you were offered after 3 years was scrap value then most of the 3 year changers would wait quite a bit longer.

[odysseus2000]

The transition to electric traction seems to be proceeding like any tech change with more affluent folk now choosing electric cars. At my local super markets the car parks have gone from almost no electric cars to the current level of 5 to 10 percent. Mimicking how for example pc went from zero to a few percent, to almost every house having a computer, ditto dial up modems to broad band, from a few till now near universal broadband.

Once it becomes general knowledge that electric cars are much cheaper to run, much cheaper to service, avoid smelly gas stations & that there are enough chargers, the transition will go very fast.

Regards,

[murraypaul]

But 7 years really isn't that long, and in my view should be reconsidered.

The date is further out than the next election, and is therefore a fantasy, and can be ignored.

[odysseus2000]

But 7 years really isn't that long, and in my view should be reconsidered.

The date is further out than the next election, and is therefore a fantasy, and can be ignored.

It depends how much capex there is. If the current or next government spends many billions, an incoming administration would be obliged to carry on or take a huge hit to the nations finances.

Regards,

[TUK020]

FT article behind paywall:
UK electricity network faces ‘mind-boggling’ scale of change over net zero
Investors behind monopolies face navigating demands of regulators and communities on bumpy path to cleaner energy

https://www.ft.com/content/c0731316-687 ... a673039886

[88V8]

FT article behind paywall:
UK electricity network faces ‘mind-boggling’ scale of change over net zero
Investors behind monopolies face navigating demands of regulators and communities on bumpy path to cleaner energy
https://www.ft.com/content/c0731316-687 ... a673039886

The notion that we can electrify transport and home heating by 2030 by just building solar/wind and without any electricity storage policy - gridscale batteries - is the sort of bollox one would expect from a politician and is exactly the bollox we've got.
I'm sure Rowan knows better.

V8

[scotview]

FT article behind paywall:
UK electricity network faces ‘mind-boggling’ scale of change over net zero
Investors behind monopolies face navigating demands of regulators and communities on bumpy path to cleaner energy

https://www.ft.com/content/c0731316-687 ... a673039886

Is there any way to read this article, thanks.

[BullDog]

FT article behind paywall:
UK electricity network faces ‘mind-boggling’ scale of change over net zero
Investors behind monopolies face navigating demands of regulators and communities on bumpy path to cleaner energy
https://www.ft.com/content/c0731316-687 ... a673039886

The notion that we can electrify transport and home heating by 2030 by just building solar/wind and without any electricity storage policy - gridscale batteries - is the sort of bollox one would expect from a politician and is exactly the bollox we've got.
I'm sure Rowan knows better.

V8

We have to look way beyond battery storage. Other technologies are available with far greater capacity. We need many more Dinorwic scale storages. Unfortunately we have neither the geography for more Dinorwics nor the policy to get other technology gigawatt scale storages built.

[tjh290633]

The notion that we can electrify transport and home heating by 2030 by just building solar/wind and without any electricity storage policy - gridscale batteries - is the sort of bollox one would expect from a politician and is exactly the bollox we've got.
I'm sure Rowan knows better.

V8

We have to look way beyond battery storage. Other technologies are available with far greater capacity. We need many more Dinorwic scale storages. Unfortunately we have neither the geography for more Dinorwics nor the policy to get other technology gigawatt scale storages built.

We do, however, have tidal energy available 24/7/365 around our coastline. Those systems which rely on tidal flow, as opposed to catching water at high tide, then releasing it at low tide, seem to have the most promise. Put tidal flow turbines in our estuaries and the cost is probably less than a nuclear station.

TJH

[Itsallaguess]

FT article behind paywall:

UK electricity network faces ‘mind-boggling’ scale of change over net zero

Investors behind monopolies face navigating demands of regulators and communities on bumpy path to cleaner energy

https://www.ft.com/content/c0731316-6872-4764-9843-22a673039886

Is there any way to read this article, thanks.

Googling the FT headline will usually give you access via that route without any issues...

Doing so using the following Google Search URL link will give you the first returned result to click, to enable you to read the full article -

UK electricity network faces ‘mind-boggling’ scale of change over net zero -

https://www.google.com/search?q=UK+electricity+network+faces+%E2%80%98mind-boggling%E2%80%99+scale+of+change+over+net+zero

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[BullDog]

We have to look way beyond battery storage. Other technologies are available with far greater capacity. We need many more Dinorwic scale storages. Unfortunately we have neither the geography for more Dinorwics nor the policy to get other technology gigawatt scale storages built.

We do, however, have tidal energy available 24/7/365 around our coastline. Those systems which rely on tidal flow, as opposed to catching water at high tide, then releasing it at low tide, seem to have the most promise. Put tidal flow turbines in our estuaries and the cost is probably less than a nuclear station.

TJH

Lack of ambition and foresight is now sadly endemic in our country. When you look back over the last couple of hundred years of history, one wonders why we got to the state we find ourselves in.