Musk endeavours

[odysseus2000]

You said yourself - "in early US trading", the people selling are in the US.

And given that many car companies, not just Tesla, have been hyping up the benefits of self-driving and to an extent been rerated as tech companies rather than industrials on the back of it, it's perhaps not surprising to see a bit of that rerating reversed when there is a significant challenge in a major market, to one of the leaders in self-driving.

Yes, but many of the autos have been trading down for months. One rational put forward was that this was the market believing that Tesla would solve the self driving problem and hurt competitors sales. Now we have another investigation, like the earlier one in 2017, and targeting collisions with emergency vehicles. If the original logic was right then the equity of Tesla competitors ought to have risen rather than gapped down with Tesla if investors believe the investigation might get somewhere and hurt Tesla.

Now with over 1 hours trading as I type we still see most autos down, although Toyota has currently got a hammer candle, but it is still down on last weeks close.

This could all be noise or algorithms selling what was already weak to go to areas that are trending up, such as bitcoin.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Presumably the US regulators investigating Tesla Autopilot :

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-08-16/

This gaps down all auto companies all over the planet?

Regards,

PS. Anyhow nice to hear from a regular of the now defunct fool.co.uk

TBF

TSLA down about 5.4% whereas ford only about 1%. So some auto cos are less equal than others today, I guess.

Yes, but Ford are still down, suggests investors (algorithms) selling weakness and rotation towards strength.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

And given that many car companies, not just Tesla, have been hyping up the benefits of self-driving and to an extent been rerated as tech companies rather than industrials on the back of it, it's perhaps not surprising to see a bit of that rerating reversed when there is a significant challenge in a major market, to one of the leaders in self-driving.

The flaw in that logic would be classing Tesla as a leading self driving entity. It's a rather big flaw. Their approach isn't typical either, so it's not incredibly logical to downgrade competitors using alternative strategies, technologies and redundancies because of Tesla's well known and entirely unsurprising deficiencies.

[Hallucigenia]

it's not incredibly logical to downgrade competitors using alternative strategies, technologies and redundancies

You're suggesting that logic comes into this... Personally I wouldn't waste too much energy thinking about the reasons behind short-term movements like this, particularly on a day when most markets are down a bit and we're in the dog days of August.

[odysseus2000]

Looks to me like a flight to safety with staples and health up along with Spx and Dow, most everything else down:

https://twitter.com/0_ody/status/142736 ... 56386?s=20

Tesla hit more than most due to the additional news of the investigation.

Regards,

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

I can't believe none of you lot have seen this yet:

Aug 17 (Reuters) - Six children and an adult were taken to hospital with injuries after a car collided with pedestrians in a school car park in southern England on Monday evening, the Sussex Police said.

At least one person was reported to have been pinned under a Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) Model 3 in a car park of Ardingly College, the Telegraph, first to report about the incident, said. Reuters could not immediately confirm the detail.

The police said officers responded to reports of a collision involving a blue Tesla car and pedestrians in College Road, Ardingly, shortly after 4.30 pm (local time) on Monday.

The driver, a 47-year-old woman who was in the car at the time of the collision, was uninjured, according to the police.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/six-in ... 021-08-16/

[BobbyD]

I can't believe none of you lot have seen this yet:

Aug 17 (Reuters) - Six children and an adult were taken to hospital with injuries after a car collided with pedestrians in a school car park in southern England on Monday evening, the Sussex Police said.

At least one person was reported to have been pinned under a Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) Model 3 in a car park of Ardingly College, the Telegraph, first to report about the incident, said. Reuters could not immediately confirm the detail.

The police said officers responded to reports of a collision involving a blue Tesla car and pedestrians in College Road, Ardingly, shortly after 4.30 pm (local time) on Monday.

The driver, a 47-year-old woman who was in the car at the time of the collision, was uninjured, according to the police.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/six-in ... 021-08-16/

Difficult to know what happened, but police are investigating and appealing for more witnesses, mobile and dasham footage.

Location described variously as a car park, the grounds of a £12,500 a term school, and a summer camp pick up at the school, so impossible to know what the actual road surface was like and therefor potential for fsd use.

Driver fine, but no mention of her being arrested, car removed on flat bed. Wait and see I guess, but the possibility of something is being investigated.

[odysseus2000]

I can't believe none of you lot have seen this yet:

Aug 17 (Reuters) - Six children and an adult were taken to hospital with injuries after a car collided with pedestrians in a school car park in southern England on Monday evening, the Sussex Police said.

At least one person was reported to have been pinned under a Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) Model 3 in a car park of Ardingly College, the Telegraph, first to report about the incident, said. Reuters could not immediately confirm the detail.

The police said officers responded to reports of a collision involving a blue Tesla car and pedestrians in College Road, Ardingly, shortly after 4.30 pm (local time) on Monday.

The driver, a 47-year-old woman who was in the car at the time of the collision, was uninjured, according to the police.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/six-in ... 021-08-16/

Difficult to know what happened, but police are investigating and appealing for more witnesses, mobile and dasham footage.

Location described variously as a car park, the grounds of a £12,500 a term school, and a summer camp pick up at the school, so impossible to know what the actual road surface was like and therefor potential for fsd use.

Driver fine, but no mention of her being arrested, car removed on flat bed. Wait and see I guess, but the possibility of something is being investigated.

Every 20 minutes someone is killed or seriously injured on uk roads:

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/t ... oad-safety

In this tragedy the car is a Tesla and thence it becomes a major news item whereas the remaining (24x60)/20 -1 other accidents are ignored.

This kind of report is farcical.

Regards,

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

I can't believe none of you lot have seen this yet:

Aug 17 (Reuters) - Six children and an adult were taken to hospital with injuries after a car collided with pedestrians in a school car park in southern England on Monday evening, the Sussex Police said.

At least one person was reported to have been pinned under a Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) Model 3 in a car park of Ardingly College, the Telegraph, first to report about the incident, said. Reuters could not immediately confirm the detail.

The police said officers responded to reports of a collision involving a blue Tesla car and pedestrians in College Road, Ardingly, shortly after 4.30 pm (local time) on Monday.

The driver, a 47-year-old woman who was in the car at the time of the collision, was uninjured, according to the police.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/six-in ... 021-08-16/

Difficult to know what happened, but police are investigating and appealing for more witnesses, mobile and dasham footage.

Location described variously as a car park, the grounds of a £12,500 a term school, and a summer camp pick up at the school, so impossible to know what the actual road surface was like and therefor potential for fsd use.

Driver fine, but no mention of her being arrested, car removed on flat bed. Wait and see I guess, but the possibility of something is being investigated.

Every 20 minutes someone is killed or seriously injured on uk roads:

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/t ... oad-safety

In this tragedy the car is a Tesla and thence it becomes a major news item whereas the remaining (24x60)/20 -1 other accidents are ignored.

This kind of report is farcical.

Regards,

That did run through my mind when I posted this Ody.

I guess that it hit the news because allegedly the car is of the self-drive variety, and cars of that ilk are of high public interest. True to form reuters merely provided reportage and not spin.

Matt

[odysseus2000]

TheMotorcycleBoy
That did run through my mind when I posted this Ody.

I guess that it hit the news because allegedly the car is of the self-drive variety, and cars of that ilk are of high public interest. True to form reuters merely provided reportage and not spin.

Matt

The other slowly emerging and growing only slowly is the spreading realisation that AI will take out a lot of jobs.

I am amazed at how few people are considering this. I only heard one question during PMQ this year about the UK having to modernise its state schools to the new technologies just as the private schools are now doing. But mostly commentators and politicians are assuming that the old ways will endure. The endless debate about the shortage of NHS GP's is a area where people do not realise that AI can do a GP's job and do it better and before long it will be concerns over what to do with the unneeded GP.

When it becomes obvious what is happening we will see a back lash, just as the luddites tried to break Arkwright we can expect vested interests to try and break AI and for now the few people who understand what is coming have Tesla in their sights, knowing that if they can break robotic driving they can slow the AI progression. Hence the relentless focus on Tesla and the ignoring of all the other deaths and serious injuries. Personally I see the move to AI as unstoppable and coming far faster than almost anyone in authority thinks. Once more people see what is happening I expect many more articles dissing Tesla and it would not surprise me if the EEC bans Tesla AI driving based on some corrupted analysis to protect vested interests even though robotic driving as the potential to save more lives than seat belts and air bags ever have.

Regards,

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

TheMotorcycleBoy
That did run through my mind when I posted this Ody.

I guess that it hit the news because allegedly the car is of the self-drive variety, and cars of that ilk are of high public interest. True to form reuters merely provided reportage and not spin.

Matt

The other slowly emerging and growing only slowly is the spreading realisation that AI will take out a lot of jobs.

I am amazed at how few people are considering this. I only heard one question during PMQ this year about the UK having to modernise its state schools to the new technologies just as the private schools are now doing. But mostly commentators and politicians are assuming that the old ways will endure. The endless debate about the shortage of NHS GP's is a area where people do not realise that AI can do a GP's job and do it better and before long it will be concerns over what to do with the unneeded GP.

When it becomes obvious what is happening we will see a back lash, just as the luddites tried to break Arkwright we can expect vested interests to try and break AI and for now the few people who understand what is coming have Tesla in their sights, knowing that if they can break robotic driving they can slow the AI progression. Hence the relentless focus on Tesla and the ignoring of all the other deaths and serious injuries. Personally I see the move to AI as unstoppable and coming far faster than almost anyone in authority thinks. Once more people see what is happening I expect many more articles dissing Tesla and it would not surprise me if the EEC bans Tesla AI driving based on some corrupted analysis to protect vested interests even though robotic driving as the potential to save more lives than seat belts and air bags ever have.

Regards,

You've got a point.

I must admit I'm a bit of a control freak - I'm scared of flying, and am much more comfortable being in the driving seat of a car. I'm not as bad in trains, for some reason. That said, I do think driving is an annoying and stressful waste of time. I would much sooner travel in my car, with that vehicle effectively just being an automatically piloted living room, so that I can read or watch a hopefully short film instead. But I'm reserved about how soon that time is from now. And being that control freak, anxious about surrendering all that control!!

Matt

[BobbyD]

When it becomes obvious what is happening we will see a back lash, just as the luddites tried to break Arkwright we can expect vested interests to try and break AI and for now the few people who understand what is coming have Tesla in their sights...

When it comes to self driving Tesla are the luddites. The technology positive kids are embracing multi-sensor systems with modern components while Tesla are insisting that nothing beats, or can add to, or provide redundancy for the camera out of my 2004 Motorola Razr V.3, and endangering the future of self driving in the process.

[tjh290633]

For a report about the accident at Ardingly, see https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1951780 ... ge/?ref=eb with more pictures at https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1951797 ... oad-crash/

Unfortunately the damage to the car was reported to be on the passenger side, not shown in the picture.

TJH

[odysseus2000]

For a report about the accident at Ardingly, see https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1951780 ... ge/?ref=eb with more pictures at https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1951797 ... oad-crash/

Unfortunately the damage to the car was reported to be on the passenger side, not shown in the picture.

TJH

Happy news that none of the injuries appear to be life threatening.

I imagine if this had been an ICE car no one save those directly involved would have heard of it.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

Happy news that none of the injuries appear to be life threatening.

8 year old boy in critical condition according to that report.

I imagine if this had been an ICE car no one save those directly involved would have heard of it.

Six children injured, one in critical condition, air ambulance called, in the middle of the summer news drought. You have a very vivid imagination.

Higher up the same page:

Elderly woman injured in car crash in Keymer Road, Burgess Hill

- https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1950521 ... gess-hill/

[odysseus2000]

When it becomes obvious what is happening we will see a back lash, just as the luddites tried to break Arkwright we can expect vested interests to try and break AI and for now the few people who understand what is coming have Tesla in their sights...

When it comes to self driving Tesla are the luddites. The technology positive kids are embracing multi-sensor systems with modern components while Tesla are insisting that nothing beats, or can add to, or provide redundancy for the camera out of my 2004 Motorola Razr V.3, and endangering the future of self driving in the process.

Humans have been driving cars for over 100 years using two optical sensors called eyes. Clearly they are not that good at it, but one imagines that 6 eyes coupled with much faster reflexes and non-distractible would likely be better.

There are huge problems with lidar and radar as clearly outlined by the Tesla's Andrej Karpathy (senior director of their robotic driving AI team) in videos I have linked to on this site, even before one considers the cost, complexity and ugliness of having such additional systems on a car.

Everything depends on what Tesla can get to work, but so far Tesla, at least imho, after I have studied a lot of systems, is very close to having a viable system but most of the others are not.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

Humans have been driving cars for over 100 years using two optical sensors called eyes.

Those eyes plug in to the most complex thing in the known universe. We've been through this before, in excruciating detail, and I'm not going to waste my time reiterating arguments you either are fully aware of, or will never understand, but suffice to say when Tesla start using human brains as processing units that argument might become marginally less terrible.

[tjh290633]

b
Happy news that none of the injuries appear to be life threatening.

I imagine if this had been an ICE car no one save those directly involved would have heard of it.

Regards,

News of accidents, whether or not there is injury, are frequently posted. Road closures because of collisions are regular news items, as well as online notifications.

TJH

[onthemove]

I imagine if this had been an ICE car no one save those directly involved would have heard of it.

I just did a google to try to find, as other also seem to have done, some of the abundant stories that I recall from over the years from the BBC reporting cars hitting school kids, but it threw up something more directly applicable...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14777 ... e-hospital
"Horror crash as car ploughs into crowd outside school – at least 5 young children injured"

There you have an article reporting on the accident in question, from a national newspaper, that doesn't (at the time I've accessed it) even mention "Tesla" or "Electric" even once.

I would suggest thereby proving that, believe it or not, 5 or 6 school children getting hit by a car in a single accident at the school gate, is actually something of concern to many people, in and of itself.

I'm not sure how I can put this diplomatically, but to jump to the presumption that it only got column inches because it was a Tesla / non-ICE vehicle, rather than it being reported due to people's natural concerns for the welfare of so many injured children ... well, hmmm.... I'll say no more.

That said, knowing from the other reports that it was a Tesla, I'm a little surprised and concerned..

I mean, I guess it probably wasn't FSD-beta (being in the UK where FSD isn't that great from what I've seen, plus apologies for jumping to stereotyping, but a 47yr old lady driver doesn't sound on the face of it like someone who'd experiment with FSD beta)...

... but correct me if I'm wrong, because my interest is only really in the FSD aspect so I don't pay much attention to the rest of the details of Tesla's, but I thought that the same FSD technology was still supposed to provide some kind of 'driver assistance' (automatic emergency braking and such like) even when not using autopilot / FSD / etc?

[odysseus2000]

Several points:

There are various statements of how serious or not the accident was:

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1951797 ... -ardingly/

Notes:
The eight-year-old boy was flown by air ambulance to St George’s Hospital in London, where he remains.


Police said his injuries are serious, but not life threatening.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1951780 ... ge/?ref=eb

“Paramedics at the scene reported that none of the injuries are life-threatening, and of course we are staying in touch with the relevant families,” he added.

A spokesman for Secamb said three people were injured with “potentially serious injuries”, while one patient in a critical condition was transported by air ambulance to St George's.

Given that there is a fatal or serious accident every 20 minutes and that very few of these appear in Reuters as did the Tesla case I still feel that the predominant draw for the big media was the Tesla. The other ice injury with children did not as far as I know get reported in Reuter's.

With regard to collision avoidance, yes the Tesla, along with many other makes has this and that should have prevented the accident. I imagine the investigation will have to determine if this system failed, or was turned off, or was there a situation where the car realised it was put in position that would lead to an accident, e.g. child walking off kerb with out looking, and to avoid him led to the accident. There are many possible perms and combinations and we do not know if the Tesla was damaged to get some idea of the impact speed.

For many traders the mere sign of an article in Reuters will have been the main trigger is causing them to act or not.

Regards,