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Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
odysseus2000
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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#315601

Postby odysseus2000 » June 5th, 2020, 4:30 pm

zico wrote:I'm amazed that the FTSE is now only 13% below its 7,400 figure at the end of 2019, before anyone knew Covid-19 would be a problem.
Seems to me that all the betting now is on a "V"-shaped recovery, which assumes a vaccine is developed, effective and widely available within the next 6 months.

But even so, companies have had massive dislocation with the lockdowns, and many will surely not recover, so even in the best of all possible post-Covid worlds, I struggle to see how the FTSE could get anywhere close to 7,400 in the next year.

I've done some modelling on the science board (link below) and seems to me that governments (UK and USA) will be very keen to ease lockdown, but then will have to either re-impose lockdown in the autumn, or alternatively, accept thousands of deaths per day.
The daily deaths should continue to decline for a couple more weeks yet (though UK daily figures this week are stubbornly high) but then as lockdown eases, the number of infections will start to take off again.

I was previously overly pessimistic about the effects of Covid-19 on the market, and made a wrong decision, so I may be wrong again, but I just can't see how there can be a quick and complete economic recovery from this pandemic in the way the market moves are currently suggesting.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=22737&start=460#p315188


Perhaps part of the explanation for the rise in equities is the belief that the strong will now either see their weaker competitors fail or that the strong will just buy them out.

Either way it looks likely to increase the profits of the strong business that survive.

These kinds of effects are likely not that well reflected in analysts estimates, so the chance of decreasing p/e from higher e seems good as the cash put into the market via the central banks will mostly be spent on the products and services offered by the strong business.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#315605

Postby zico » June 5th, 2020, 4:37 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:Perhaps part of the explanation for the rise in equities is the belief that the strong will now either see their weaker competitors fail or that the strong will just buy them out.

Either way it looks likely to increase the profits of the strong business that survive.

These kinds of effects are likely not that well reflected in analysts estimates, so the chance of decreasing p/e from higher e seems good as the cash put into the market via the central banks will mostly be spent on the products and services offered by the strong business.

Regards,


Maybe so, but it would still be a huge dislocation as businesses close and others open, with unemployment, uncertainty and (at least temporary) loss of consumer confidence. It's also likely that the strong businesses will be more efficient in their use of technology, so unemployment is likely to rise.

Thinking about the "best" post Covid-19 scenario, although leisure, tourism and transport sectors are likely to be hit, it may well be that people simplyl transfer their spend onto "other" things, whatever they may be. So although people are less likely to go outside the home to spend, they spend more on their homes. So the economy is still a similar size, but consumers reduce spending on holidays (for example) and instead spend on things like home improvements.
Alternatively, people may simply become desensitised to the risk of death from Covid-19 and simply return to life as normal, accepting a higher risk than before, but with everyone thinking "it won't happen to me".

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#315629

Postby Bubblesofearth » June 5th, 2020, 6:19 pm

zico wrote:I'm amazed that the FTSE is now only 13% below its 7,400 figure at the end of 2019, before anyone knew Covid-19 would be a problem.
Seems to me that all the betting now is on a "V"-shaped recovery, which assumes a vaccine is developed, effective and widely available within the next 6 months.

But even so, companies have had massive dislocation with the lockdowns, and many will surely not recover, so even in the best of all possible post-Covid worlds, I struggle to see how the FTSE could get anywhere close to 7,400 in the next year.

I've done some modelling on the science board (link below) and seems to me that governments (UK and USA) will be very keen to ease lockdown, but then will have to either re-impose lockdown in the autumn, or alternatively, accept thousands of deaths per day.
The daily deaths should continue to decline for a couple more weeks yet (though UK daily figures this week are stubbornly high) but then as lockdown eases, the number of infections will start to take off again.

I was previously overly pessimistic about the effects of Covid-19 on the market, and made a wrong decision, so I may be wrong again, but I just can't see how there can be a quick and complete economic recovery from this pandemic in the way the market moves are currently suggesting. The FTSE went up 5.5% this week on what seemed like very little news, but then only a further 1% on genuinely unexpected and positive good news from the USA jobs market.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=22737&start=460#p315188


Part of the reason for the rise may simply be down to relative attraction vs alternatives. Risk assets such as equities have become increasingly attractive compared to cash or bonds because of the further doses of financial repression from central banks. Negative yields on gilts, t-bill etc and inflation above anything you can get on cash. The mantra of "we will do whatever it takes" may be proving too powerful for markets to ignore

BoE

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#315637

Postby odysseus2000 » June 5th, 2020, 7:54 pm

What ever folk are buying it isn't lingerie, which seems a little surprising given the limitations on other pass times, but:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/11761752 ... rce=pushly

Regards,

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#315643

Postby johnhemming » June 5th, 2020, 8:16 pm

zico wrote:I'm amazed that the FTSE is now only 13% below its 7,400 figure at the end of 2019,

The 100 is quite international. There is also a question as to what aspects of the economy are relevant. Carnival and IAG have been quite hard hit.

My expectation is that as we move forward the more specific stock links will come to the fore. Groups such as restaurants, pubs and travel will continue to suffer.

The fossil fuel market has already had quite a bit of a shift.

https://twitter.com/PrimaryVision/statu ... 48/photo/1

This seems now to have bottomed out, but below 2016.

UK banks such as Lloyds are still quite low although they are moving up and in many ways the government has underwritten their customers and as a consequence their customers debts. Lloyds was already low because of Brexit.

It has a net asset value of 67.53 and a net tangible asset value of 50.73 (ADVFN figures) which means the market values its business negatively.

HLs target broker prices
https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... -forecasts

would not load when I wrote this, but
https://www.marketscreener.com/LLOYDS-B ... consensus/

Did

With target prices "average" at 42p.

Hence we are still quite a bit under water.

The roads were quite busy tonight in Moseley, Birmingham, however.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#315665

Postby zico » June 5th, 2020, 9:52 pm

Bubblesofearth wrote:
Part of the reason for the rise may simply be down to relative attraction vs alternatives. Risk assets such as equities have become increasingly attractive compared to cash or bonds because of the further doses of financial repression from central banks. Negative yields on gilts, t-bill etc and inflation above anything you can get on cash. The mantra of "we will do whatever it takes" may be proving too powerful for markets to ignore

BoE


Yes, this is usually the reason why I stay invested in shares even when I think the market is too high. However the mantra "we will do whatever it takes" is one that failed on Black Monday, because if the market really doesn't believe in something, there simply isn't enough government money in the world to stop the tidal wave of investment money.
I remember seeing a graphic of UK government money against currency speculator money for Black Monday, which was something like a 40-1 ratio in favour of speculators.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#315672

Postby odysseus2000 » June 5th, 2020, 10:39 pm

This is Cramer's take on the stockmarket and the economy:

https://twitter.com/ScottM80247/status/ ... 29088?s=20

If he is right, then a lot of the private retail economy is doomed and that means folk will have to find alternative jobs while at the same time the real big retail players are going to make fortunes for their investors and we are seeing equity markets, which are predominantly reflecting what investors think about the big players, racing upwards.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316085

Postby zico » June 7th, 2020, 2:06 pm

Interesting article in the Sunday Times about UK & USA markets getting ahead of themselves, quoting Amundi Asset Management as "great market detachment from reality". They quote a few others as saying they expecting rallies from March on the back of government stimulus, but the extent of the rally has outpaced their expectations. Russ Mould (AJ Bell) says that "Market are riding the tidal wave of govt and central bank cash, but investors are correctto wonder what could still go wrong".

Article also mentions that those expecting a market fall (that's me!) should consider funds that tend to protect against falling markets - gold, absolute return funds or defensively managed funds, and there are 2 suggestions in this article.

- Blackrock Gold & General - which offers exposure to gold and other precious metals by investing in listed mining companies (fund is up 26% in recent months).
- BNY Mellon Real Return - aims for positive results regardless of market conditions, thought they've come under fire because they failed to achieve this (This particular fund is down 3% over 3 months compared to sector average fall of 1.7%. Over 5 months, it's up 14.5% compared to sector average of 4%.)

Any views on the above 2 investments (or similar types of investments)? Is there another board here that would be more appropriate for this kind of question? I'm not attracted to the idea of holding gold, but have too much cash sloshing about at the moment, so would like to get a fair chunk of that into defensive funds.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316091

Postby dealtn » June 7th, 2020, 2:36 pm

zico wrote:Article also mentions that those expecting a market fall (that's me!) should consider funds that tend to protect against falling markets - gold, absolute return funds or defensively managed funds, and there are 2 suggestions in this article.

- Blackrock Gold & General - which offers exposure to gold and other precious metals by investing in listed mining companies (fund is up 26% in recent months).
- BNY Mellon Real Return - aims for positive results regardless of market conditions, thought they've come under fire because they failed to achieve this (This particular fund is down 3% over 3 months compared to sector average fall of 1.7%. Over 5 months, it's up 14.5% compared to sector average of 4%.)

Any views on the above 2 investments (or similar types of investments)? Is there another board here that would be more appropriate for this kind of question? I'm not attracted to the idea of holding gold, but have too much cash sloshing about at the moment, so would like to get a fair chunk of that into defensive funds.


Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts?

Mining and Metals?

Investment Strategies?

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316102

Postby odysseus2000 » June 7th, 2020, 3:29 pm

zico Any views on the above 2 investments (or similar types of investments)? Is there another board here that would be more appropriate for this kind of question? I'm not attracted to the idea of holding gold, but have too much cash sloshing about at the moment, so would like to get a fair chunk of that into defensive funds.


As things now are I am not sure what is really defensive. Looking at what people are doing now and the big change wrought by c19, I begin to wonder if the companies that have done well in this environment are the new defensive plays: Amazon, Netflix etc. One can of course create reasons why they might not do so well going forwards: Fed breaking them up, new competition etc, but such fears have been around for a long time and both have more than doubled on a 3 year time frame.

The gold etc (gld) by contrast has gone from 118 to 158 in the last 3 years.

West Texas intermediate crude has gone from 46 to 40.

Regards,

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316111

Postby langley59 » June 7th, 2020, 4:13 pm

If you are expecting a market fall then rather than buying investments which may or may not hold up in such a scenario isn't it better to hold onto your cash until that plays out or until you change your perception about a fall?

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316113

Postby zico » June 7th, 2020, 4:14 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:As things now are I am not sure what is really defensive. Looking at what people are doing now and the big change wrought by c19, I begin to wonder if the companies that have done well in this environment are the new defensive plays: Amazon, Netflix etc. One can of course create reasons why they might not do so well going forwards: Fed breaking them up, new competition etc, but such fears have been around for a long time and both have more than doubled on a 3 year time frame.



Yes, good point. You'd have thought that Amazon etc already had increases priced in, but I was really surprised at how long it took the markets to realise that tourism and travel firms would be affected by the pandemic - there seemed to be a second wave of selling in tourism & travel after the initial sharp falls in the FTSE and Dow.

I suppose by "defensive" I'm thinking "what's negatively correlated with FTSE/Dow".
Another article in the Sunday Times (by Ian Cowie) mentions Blackrock Latin American (-27%) and Jupter Emerging & Frontier Income trusts (30%) as high-risk. They look to have plunged since the pandemic, but not recovered to anything like the extent of the FTSE/Dow. Brazil is clearly heading for big trouble in terms of loss of lives due to its mishandling of the pandemic, though Brazil's leader is clearly prioritising the economy over lives.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316129

Postby tikunetih » June 7th, 2020, 5:04 pm

Above, you wrote:
zico wrote:this is usually the reason why I stay invested in shares even when I think the market is too high.
NB acknowledging the "usually".


A couple of months back you wrote:
zico wrote:I sold a significant amount of funds on 20th March (when the FTSE was a 5200)


and at the end of April wrote:
zico wrote:So we've made a significant (but not enormous) sell on FTSE UK today with the FTSE at 6,000.



So, FTSE up ~25% since the 20 March sales, and up ~8% since the late April sales.

Out of interest:
(A) Is there a point where you say "my timing call didn't work out" or "my timing model doesn't work so great" and I need to modify my approach?

(B) Or, do you proceed on the assumption that your view will eventually prevail (ie. current price, as set by the net aggregate opinion of investors at large, is essentially "wrong") and your call will come good in time?


If the answer is (B), but then humour me and imagine that markets never obliged and never revisited the levels you were hoping for, would there ever come a point where you then changed your mind and reverted to answer (A): acknowledging the earlier error and then figuring out how to resolve the situation?


When investing in individual securities, if you sell and then that security continues to go up (potentially for years and years, perhaps rising hundreds or even thousands of percent in extremis) it's not ideal from your perspective but nor is it a catastrophe because there's plenty of fish in the sea and hence other opportunities that can be taken advantage of.

But with whole market calls it's more complicated because if you are dead wrong such that prices never revisit the levels you sold at (in a timeframe that's useful to you), never mind falling further to the even lower levels you were hoping to buy back in at, then you might have quite a big problem, and these situations have the potential to be quite damaging to returns and even to an investor's psyche. If you find yourself in this situation and are not careful to extricate yourself from it then it's possible to slip into becoming a permabear with an imbalanced view of things: readily seeing the cloud but not so much the silver lining, and actively seeking out sources that confirm your pessimistic outlook to be correct - despite markets continuing to signal that your view was erroneous.

I mentioned this sort of thing a couple of months or so ago in another thread to another poster when it seemed there was potential then for something like this to occur, similar to what I've seen occur after previous major markets crashes/falls when the newsflow and sentiment were dire and it was easy to extrapolate that even worse things (and lower prices) would follow. I think that if your trading/investment strategy involves you making large directional timing calls then it's imperative that your plan you should have steps in it that seek to identify - sooner rather than later - when a call hasn't worked out, and then how to manage your way out of that.

I could summarise this lot as: if you're in the habit of making significant directional market calls with unwavering conviction then you'd also better be in the habit of being right virtually all of the time - else avoid!


zico wrote:I suppose by "defensive" I'm thinking "what's negatively correlated with FTSE/Dow".


What's most negatively correlated with those indexes is to be short them, but that's a very tricky path to tread if your trade management skills aren't down pat. There be dragons etc.

Also, it's worth making sure that you don't compound potential errors. If you wanted to buy FTSE materially below 5000 or 6000 or whatever, but haven't had the opportunity, is that really a strong enough reason to be buying something totally different as a 2nd/3rd/4th-best substitute? Buy everything solely on its own merits.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316150

Postby zico » June 7th, 2020, 6:02 pm

tikunetih wrote:Above, you wrote:
zico wrote:this is usually the reason why I stay invested in shares even when I think the market is too high.
NB acknowledging the "usually".


A couple of months back you wrote:
zico wrote:I sold a significant amount of funds on 20th March (when the FTSE was a 5200)


and at the end of April wrote:
zico wrote:So we've made a significant (but not enormous) sell on FTSE UK today with the FTSE at 6,000.



So, FTSE up ~25% since the 20 March sales, and up ~8% since the late April sales.

Out of interest:
(A) Is there a point where you say "my timing call didn't work out" or "my timing model doesn't work so great" and I need to modify my approach?

(B) Or, do you proceed on the assumption that your view will eventually prevail (ie. current price, as set by the net aggregate opinion of investors at large, is essentially "wrong") and your call will come good in time?


If the answer is (B), but then humour me and imagine that markets never obliged and never revisited the levels you were hoping for, would there ever come a point where you then changed your mind and reverted to answer (A): acknowledging the earlier error and then figuring out how to resolve the situation?


When investing in individual securities, if you sell and then that security continues to go up (potentially for years and years, perhaps rising hundreds or even thousands of percent in extremis) it's not ideal from your perspective but nor is it a catastrophe because there's plenty of fish in the sea and hence other opportunities that can be taken advantage of.

But with whole market calls it's more complicated because if you are dead wrong such that prices never revisit the levels you sold at (in a timeframe that's useful to you), never mind falling further to the even lower levels you were hoping to buy back in at, then you might have quite a big problem, and these situations have the potential to be quite damaging to returns and even to an investor's psyche. If you find yourself in this situation and are not careful to extricate yourself from it then it's possible to slip into becoming a permabear with an imbalanced view of things: readily seeing the cloud but not so much the silver lining, and actively seeking out sources that confirm your pessimistic outlook to be correct - despite markets continuing to signal that your view was erroneous.

I mentioned this sort of thing a couple of months or so ago in another thread to another poster when it seemed there was potential then for something like this to occur, similar to what I've seen occur after previous major markets crashes/falls when the newsflow and sentiment were dire and it was easy to extrapolate that even worse things (and lower prices) would follow. I think that if your trading/investment strategy involves you making large directional timing calls then it's imperative that your plan you should have steps in it that seek to identify - sooner rather than later - when a call hasn't worked out, and then how to manage your way out of that.

I could summarise this lot as: if you're in the habit of making significant directional market calls with unwavering conviction then you'd also better be in the habit of being right virtually all of the time - else avoid!


zico wrote:I suppose by "defensive" I'm thinking "what's negatively correlated with FTSE/Dow".


What's most negatively correlated with those indexes is to be short them, but that's a very tricky path to tread if your trade management skills aren't down pat. There be dragons etc.

Also, it's worth making sure that you don't compound potential errors. If you wanted to buy FTSE materially below 5000 or 6000 or whatever, but haven't had the opportunity, is that really a strong enough reason to be buying something totally different as a 2nd/3rd/4th-best substitute? Buy everything solely on its own merits.


Thanks for another interesting reply. My view is definitely "A" (My timing call didn't work out) rather than "B" (The rest of the world is wrong and I'm the only one that's right).
Since my big mistake in mid-March, I've actually bought more than I've sold, going for a more-or-less weekly drip-feed approach, where possible after significant daily changes (on the assumption that nobody really knows what's happening so that (say) a 2% change in one day is almost certainly based on changes in sentiment rather than actual new data).
I bought in at 3 separate times when FTSE was 5,600 then 5,400 then 5,600 selling all those at 6,000.
I've since bought in at 6,000 and 6,100 selling 50% of these at 6,450.
In addition, I've continued with monthly drip-feeding into the markets (60/40 World trackers/FTSE trackers).
Weekly drip-feeding can feel a bit like the opposite of having a strategy, but I'm seeing it as a way of being able to smooth out market fluctuations in a particularly volatile time for the markets.

I'm still a lot more pessimistic than the current market sentiments, and find it incredible that the Dow is only 8% off its all-time high, but I am also mindful of the saying "economists have successfully predicted 9 of the last 5 recessions"!

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316327

Postby tikunetih » June 8th, 2020, 10:48 am

zico wrote:My view is definitely "A" (My timing call didn't work out) rather than "B" (The rest of the world is wrong and I'm the only one that's right).
Since my big mistake in mid-March, I've actually bought more than I've sold, going for a more-or-less weekly drip-feed approach, where possible after significant daily changes (on the assumption that nobody really knows what's happening so that (say) a 2% change in one day is almost certainly based on changes in sentiment rather than actual new data).
I bought in at 3 separate times when FTSE was 5,600 then 5,400 then 5,600 selling all those at 6,000.
I've since bought in at 6,000 and 6,100 selling 50% of these at 6,450.
In addition, I've continued with monthly drip-feeding into the markets (60/40 World trackers/FTSE trackers).
Weekly drip-feeding can feel a bit like the opposite of having a strategy, but I'm seeing it as a way of being able to smooth out market fluctuations in a particularly volatile time for the markets.


OK, so the result for you to date across this episode has been better than my few short quotes earlier might have suggested, although also presumably(?) somewhat/materially worse than if you'd taken no action at all. An obvious response to that would be that "it's still early days", an argument that can always be used, but setting that issue aside I think if operating an active strategy then it's always useful to loosely benchmark it against the do-nothing alternative so as to keep tabs on whether you're actually adding value or detracting from it.

One thing we do know across these past few months - because we've had trading updates from exchanges, brokers and spreadbet firms etc confirming it - is that investors en masse became incredibly active, trading with a frequency possibly greater than ever previously seen, the expenses of which swelled those middlemen's coffers but at a considerable net loss to investors in aggregate. The headwind of those costs, added to the difficulty of consistently nailing timing calls, should make people question whether this activity is really worth it unless they can show they have a durable edge.


zico wrote:I'm still a lot more pessimistic than the current market sentiments, and find it incredible that the Dow is only 8% off its all-time high, but I am also mindful of the saying "economists have successfully predicted 9 of the last 5 recessions"!


I think the view you express there is pretty much still largely the consensus opinion, paraphrased as: "I'm very surprised by how fast and by how much the market has rallied - it appears very disconnected from the economy and the real-world".

I'd say that markets have rallied hard despite that largely consensus view, with investors "disbelieving" in the rally, and sentiment remaining pretty poor: clearly not anywhere near as poor as a couple+ months ago, as economic data slowly begins to either get worse at a lesser rate or begin improving such as we had last week, but still poor in absolute terms.

Cast your mind back to the equities bull market that existed for the previous decade. From its commencement in 2009 and for much of its duration it was widely considered as the "most hated bull market in history", such was the perceived disconnect between "price" (as in the level of the main indexes) and the "real world economy". Comments such as it's all down to the Fed, ZIRP, QE, it'll all end in tears, blah, blah. Yet, despite periodic volatility, it kept rising, scaling that wall of worry, until eventually (10 years later!) the US economy in particular began to look pretty healthy, by which time the index level had risen by ~400%...

These past few months seem an analogue of that, albeit at pace, and by extension it would not be a total surprise if that situation was to endure: the market climbing a wall of worry arising from a widespread belief of there being a severe disconnect between equity prices and the real world economy. Along with eventual slowly improving economic data, that scepticism and disbelief is part of the fuel that helps drives sustained market moves: investors are slowly converted from outright sceptics to reluctant believers, and reflect that conversion in their own market positioning, leading to slow but sustained buying pressure over time - "unloved" rallies that continually defy expectations.

Keeping an unbiased outlook is a good habit for investors to practice, but if you are going to be biased then I think it pays to be biased towards optimism and being open to better than expected outcomes. Markets have, over the long term, tended to better reward people exercising that outlook than those who are biased towards worse than expected outcomes, despite the seemingly enduring appeal of the latter. Further, you can do that without needing to be trading in and out, sucking up time and mental energy, and generating fees for others. The do-nothing "default" option I mentioned in my first para above.

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316348

Postby odysseus2000 » June 8th, 2020, 11:44 am

tikunetih

Keeping an unbiased outlook is a good habit for investors to practice, but if you are going to be biased then I think it pays to be biased towards optimism and being open to better than expected outcomes. Markets have, over the long term, tended to better reward people exercising that outlook than those who are biased towards worse than expected outcomes, despite the seemingly enduring appeal of the latter. Further, you can do that without needing to be trading in and out, sucking up time and mental energy, and generating fees for others. The do-nothing "default" option I mentioned in my first para above.


Yes, it is extraordinary how things keep getting better, but it has been the way of the world throughout all recorded history. Always bad times have, like hard winters, eventually given way to springs.

I have no idea why this should have happened, but it has, that is the remarkable and unescapable conclusion for anyone who studies history or on a human scale, compares their life to the lives of the their parents and grandparents.

The only practical trouble for investors with a do nothing approach is finite lives and happening by bad luck to be living in a long hard winter.

Trading can be far more profitable than do nothing, but from what I have seen, very few people have the necessary abilities to do it successfully and of those that could, very few are prepared to commit to the necessary very hard, time hungry work. One of course has the folk who are naturally brilliant at it, just like one has the folk who naturally brilliant at say kicking a foot ball. Many might think that as nearly everyone has two feet, nearly everyone should be good at football, but we know from our own personal experience of kicking footballs that this isn't the case.

Regards,

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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316958

Postby odysseus2000 » June 9th, 2020, 10:36 pm

This is an interesting 25 minute video of Ron Baron talking about investing (particularly his thoughts and actions during the recent sell off) his investments and some of his biggest mistakes. Well worth watching imho:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/06/09/w ... baron.html

Link might take to a subscribe page (did for me on second try, checking before post), if so try a google search for it to avoid having to subscribe

Regards,

Itsallaguess
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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#316981

Postby Itsallaguess » June 10th, 2020, 6:02 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
This is an interesting 25 minute video of Ron Baron talking about investing (particularly his thoughts and actions during the recent sell off) his investments and some of his biggest mistakes. Well worth watching imho:

Link might take to a subscribe page (did for me on second try, checking before post), if so try a google search for it to avoid having to subscribe


Here's a working link to the Ron Baron interview Ody, and for anyone else interested -

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/09/ron-baron-expects-exponential-growth-for-elon-musks-tesla-and-spacex.html

The full 25 minute video interview is at the bottom of the above page.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

dealtn
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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#317002

Postby dealtn » June 10th, 2020, 8:20 am

odysseus2000 wrote:This is an interesting 25 minute video of Ron Baron talking about investing (particularly his thoughts and actions during the recent sell off) his investments and some of his biggest mistakes. Well worth watching imho:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/06/09/w ... baron.html

Link might take to a subscribe page (did for me on second try, checking before post), if so try a google search for it to avoid having to subscribe

Regards,


Before wasting 25 minutes what's the link to Coronavirus?

odysseus2000
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Re: Coronavirus - Macro Investment Aspects Only

#317004

Postby odysseus2000 » June 10th, 2020, 8:30 am

dealtn wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:This is an interesting 25 minute video of Ron Baron talking about investing (particularly his thoughts and actions during the recent sell off) his investments and some of his biggest mistakes. Well worth watching imho:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/06/09/w ... baron.html

Link might take to a subscribe page (did for me on second try, checking before post), if so try a google search for it to avoid having to subscribe

Regards,


Before wasting 25 minutes what's the link to Coronavirus?


Barron discusses many things including the public reaction to the virus in terms of very large volumes at Schwab.

He makes the point that in times of market sell offs the best investment reaction is to buy the lower prices which he did.

He also talks about how important long term holding is, which leads to the slight paradox that if one is a long time holder, where does one get the cash to buy after big sell offs like he did.

I found it interesting as he like me, looks for secular growth and he likes me sometimes gets its badly wrong as in he did not buy Amazon or Netflix, despite being in frequent contact with both Bezos and Reid and being urged by the latter to buy after a big sell off in Netflix.

Regards,


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