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Concerns about China and Taiwan

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Dod101
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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#451265

Postby Dod101 » October 19th, 2021, 12:24 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:The Chinese are nothing if not sensible (or sensitive) to realpolitik. I think we can forget all of AiY's comments in this case. scrumpyjack is I think much nearer the mark. The Chinese look at history in the long term and although some hothead may close in on Taiwan I think it more likely that they will eventually just show them and the world that they might as well join the motherland.

Dod

But is the Motherland China or Japan? Our agent in Taiwan was brought up under Japanese rule, although Chinese culture is evident.

Although we must be mindful of Confucius's viw, that 100 years is a short time in politics.

TJH


I do not know, assuming you are being serious. Japan of course was forced into giving up Formosa as it was known after it was defeated in the Second World War when it reverted to China, pre Communist China of course. I guess using the word reverted means that I am assuming that it was Chinese before the Japanese took control. The Japanese treated the weak government of China pretty appallingly in the 1930s. I think Formosa was at one time Portuguese but then many places were at one time.

Japan got control of Taiwan in 1895 I find, taking advantage of a very weak China which was forced to cede Taiwan, just in the same way that the British got HK and then the New Territories and the Germans Tsingtao. So in the same way that the motherland of Hong Kong has always been China the same with Taiwan.

It then in 1949 became the place of refuge for the remaining Chinese Nationalists after Mao took over the Mainland.

Dod

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#451319

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 19th, 2021, 3:14 pm

Dod101 wrote:I think we can forget all of AiY's comments in this case. Dod

:(

AiY ;)

tjh290633
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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#451349

Postby tjh290633 » October 19th, 2021, 4:49 pm

ReformedCharacter wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:
Although we must be mindful of Confucius's view, that 100 years is a short time in politics.

TJH

Do you have a reference for that? Or perhaps that came up in a conversation you had with him ;)


Afraid not, despite a Google search. There are a lot, of course. 100 years came up in the quote about educating children if you are planning that far ahead.

TJH

Dod101
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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#451365

Postby Dod101 » October 19th, 2021, 5:21 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Dod101 wrote:I think we can forget all of AiY's comments in this case. Dod

:(

AiY ;)


Not sure why I said that and I am always interested to read AiY's contributions so let's try to set these comments aside.

Dod

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#451399

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 19th, 2021, 7:19 pm

Dod101 wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Dod101 wrote:I think we can forget all of AiY's comments in this case. Dod

:(

AiY ;)


Not sure why I said that and I am always interested to read AiY's contributions so let's try to set these comments aside.

Dod

:D

AiY

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#451411

Postby scrumpyjack » October 19th, 2021, 8:06 pm

tjh290633 wrote:Although we must be mindful of Confucius's viw, that 100 years is a short time in politics.

TJH


As I recall, Chou en Lai was asked by Henry Kissinger about the lessons from the French Revolution, he replied that it was too early to say!

(Though subsequently there was some question about whether there was a mistake by the interpreter)

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#453803

Postby redsturgeon » October 28th, 2021, 10:22 am

tjh290633 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:The Chinese are nothing if not sensible (or sensitive) to realpolitik. I think we can forget all of AiY's comments in this case. scrumpyjack is I think much nearer the mark. The Chinese look at history in the long term and although some hothead may close in on Taiwan I think it more likely that they will eventually just show them and the world that they might as well join the motherland.

Dod

But is the Motherland China or Japan? Our agent in Taiwan was brought up under Japanese rule, although Chinese culture is evident.

Although we must be mindful of Confucius's viw, that 100 years is a short time in politics.

TJH


From wiki

In the Treaty of San Francisco and the Treaty of Taipei, which came into force respectively on 28 April 1952 and 5 August 1952, Japan formally renounced all right, claim and title to Taiwan and Penghu, and renounced all treaties signed with China before 1942.


John

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#453838

Postby Dod101 » October 28th, 2021, 11:57 am

redsturgeon wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:The Chinese are nothing if not sensible (or sensitive) to realpolitik. I think we can forget all of AiY's comments in this case. scrumpyjack is I think much nearer the mark. The Chinese look at history in the long term and although some hothead may close in on Taiwan I think it more likely that they will eventually just show them and the world that they might as well join the motherland.

Dod

But is the Motherland China or Japan? Our agent in Taiwan was brought up under Japanese rule, although Chinese culture is evident.

Although we must be mindful of Confucius's viw, that 100 years is a short time in politics.

TJH


From wiki

In the Treaty of San Francisco and the Treaty of Taipei, which came into force respectively on 28 April 1952 and 5 August 1952, Japan formally renounced all right, claim and title to Taiwan and Penghu, and renounced all treaties signed with China before 1942.


John


That was the formality of giving up Taiwan but in fact I think the Japanese had abandoned Taiwan much earlier. After all the Chinese Nationalists fled to Taiwan in 1949 taking most of the treasures of the Forbidden City with them.

Dod

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#453842

Postby redsturgeon » October 28th, 2021, 12:19 pm

Dod101 wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:But is the Motherland China or Japan? Our agent in Taiwan was brought up under Japanese rule, although Chinese culture is evident.

Although we must be mindful of Confucius's viw, that 100 years is a short time in politics.

TJH


From wiki

In the Treaty of San Francisco and the Treaty of Taipei, which came into force respectively on 28 April 1952 and 5 August 1952, Japan formally renounced all right, claim and title to Taiwan and Penghu, and renounced all treaties signed with China before 1942.


John


That was the formality of giving up Taiwan but in fact I think the Japanese had abandoned Taiwan much earlier. After all the Chinese Nationalists fled to Taiwan in 1949 taking most of the treasures of the Forbidden City with them.

Dod


I know...my grandfather was one of them!

John

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#453851

Postby Dod101 » October 28th, 2021, 12:51 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
From wiki



John


That was the formality of giving up Taiwan but in fact I think the Japanese had abandoned Taiwan much earlier. After all the Chinese Nationalists fled to Taiwan in 1949 taking most of the treasures of the Forbidden City with them.

Dod


I know...my grandfather was one of them!

John


That's an interesting heritage to have. I can't imagine many round here who would be able to say that.

Dod

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#453857

Postby redsturgeon » October 28th, 2021, 1:28 pm

Dod101 wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
That was the formality of giving up Taiwan but in fact I think the Japanese had abandoned Taiwan much earlier. After all the Chinese Nationalists fled to Taiwan in 1949 taking most of the treasures of the Forbidden City with them.

Dod


I know...my grandfather was one of them!

John


That's an interesting heritage to have. I can't imagine many round here who would be able to say that.

Dod


Yup, he was an officer with the KMT fighting the communists, escaped to Taiwan, while my mother escaped to Hong Kong where she met my father who was with the British Army fighting the communists in Korea.

So two generations of my family have fought against communism, I doubt many here could claim that.

John

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#466962

Postby Albert90 » December 18th, 2021, 7:13 am

What are some concerns about China and Taiwan? One concern is that there have been many stories of China exerting its military power on the coast of Taiwan by conducting artillery drills, live firing exercises, public displays of advanced weaponry or flying fighter jets at high altitude. Some people also expressed concern for what would happen if Beijing had to choose between defending itself from Japan down south or responding to a Taiwanese counterstrike. Recently, others point to planned joint training exercises next year as evidence that Beijing may be seeking dominance over Taipei and not declaring support for Taiwanese independence.

Dod101
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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#466978

Postby Dod101 » December 18th, 2021, 9:55 am

Albert90 wrote:What are some concerns about China and Taiwan? One concern is that there have been many stories of China exerting its military power on the coast of Taiwan by conducting artillery drills, live firing exercises, public displays of advanced weaponry or flying fighter jets at high altitude. Some people also expressed concern for what would happen if Beijing had to choose between defending itself from Japan down south or responding to a Taiwanese counterstrike. Recently, others point to planned joint training exercises next year as evidence that Beijing may be seeking dominance over Taipei and not declaring support for Taiwanese independence.


What point are you making? Not much doubt that under the current regime, China is seeking dominance over Taiwan and China will never declare support for Taiwanese independence.

Dod

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#467707

Postby Albert90 » December 21st, 2021, 6:08 am

Dod101 wrote:
Albert90 wrote:What are some concerns about China and Taiwan? One concern is that there have been many stories of China exerting its military power on the coast of Taiwan by conducting artillery drills, live firing exercises, public displays of advanced weaponry or flying fighter jets at high altitude. Some people also expressed concern for what would happen if Beijing had to choose between defending itself from Japan down south or responding to a Taiwanese counterstrike. Recently, others point to planned joint training exercises next year as evidence that Beijing may be seeking dominance over Taipei and not declaring support for Taiwanese independence.


What point are you making? Not much doubt that under the current regime, China is seeking dominance over Taiwan and China will never declare support for Taiwanese independence.

Dod


According to my point of view, China is seeking dominance over Taiwan and they have every right to do so. America is just trying to create more problems for China to hinder its political and economical growth. Let's see what happens next.

Dod101
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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#467723

Postby Dod101 » December 21st, 2021, 8:50 am

Albert90 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
Albert90 wrote:What are some concerns about China and Taiwan? One concern is that there have been many stories of China exerting its military power on the coast of Taiwan by conducting artillery drills, live firing exercises, public displays of advanced weaponry or flying fighter jets at high altitude. Some people also expressed concern for what would happen if Beijing had to choose between defending itself from Japan down south or responding to a Taiwanese counterstrike. Recently, others point to planned joint training exercises next year as evidence that Beijing may be seeking dominance over Taipei and not declaring support for Taiwanese independence.


What point are you making? Not much doubt that under the current regime, China is seeking dominance over Taiwan and China will never declare support for Taiwanese independence.

Dod


According to my point of view, China is seeking dominance over Taiwan and they have every right to do so. America is just trying to create more problems for China to hinder its political and economical growth. Let's see what happens next.


Whether China 'has every right to do so' is an interesting point but there seems no doubt that China is exerting its influence and seeking dominance over Taiwan. It would be hugely disruptive to say the least if China exerted its military muscle in attempting to take over Taiwan.

Dod

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#467726

Postby odysseus2000 » December 21st, 2021, 8:58 am

Albert90
According to my point of view, China is seeking dominance over Taiwan and they have every right to do so. America is just trying to create more problems for China to hinder its political and economical growth. Let's see what happens next.


We have a totalitarian state using its military and economic power to threaten a democracy.

Does this sound familiar to anyone who studied the history of European totalitarian states?

Regards,

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Re: Concerns about China and Taiwan

#467730

Postby murraypaul » December 21st, 2021, 9:13 am

odysseus2000 wrote:Does this sound familiar to anyone who studied the history of European totalitarian states?


Doesn't require much history, does it :)
We are seeing it right now in real time with Russia and Ukraine.


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