Musk endeavours

[odysseus2000]

Interesting video of a guy who has chosen a plug in hybrid over a pure electric Jaguar, predominantly because he did not like the poor charging infrastructure. He does however, note that his experience with a model 3 was far better with many more chargers and very fast charging and relatively low cost of £46k for the 3 (22 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k15n6QAe8cE

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Tail wind from bit coin.

Tesla bought 48,000 bit coin spending about 1.5 billion.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 32141.html

This gives an average price of 1.5billion/48,000 = $31,250.

Tesla have sold some coin, but with the current price at $47,000 will have an increase in their balance sheet from bit coin.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Road rage against a Tesla, more like a movie than reality:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-hunted-video/

Regards,

[Hallucigenia]

Not that it's very relevant to any kind of investment, but the electric Hummer is suitably daft - 4 tonnes with a 200kWh battery for 350 miles, 3s 0-60

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/am ... ype-drive/

[BobbyD]

Not that it's very relevant to any kind of investment, but the electric Hummer is suitably daft - 4 tonnes with a 200kWh battery for 350 miles, 3s 0-60

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/am ... ype-drive/

If Tesla share prices were rationale and the CT were believable then competition for it, and the development of the market sans Tesla's involvement, should certainly be relevant to investment especially since Musk doesn't like releasing thiungs he can't claim are 'the best', however tenuous the claim...

[BobbyD]

Tesla ordered to pay over $130 mln to Black former worker over racism -WSJ

- https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesl ... 021-10-05/

[odysseus2000]

The Tesla model Pi, a smartphone that allows the mining of Mars coin, connects to Starlink among other things (8mins 27seconds):

https://youtu.be/vhokxtv2Rms

Regards,

[BobbyD]

* ID only, VW sold 22 fully electric models in China last year.

VW figures: https://cnevpost.com/2021/10/02/vw-id-s ... -from-aug/

Tesla figures: Reuters

**Official figures excluding exports only available for last few months

Despite exporting over 50,000 MIC cars in last 2 months waiting times in Mainland China are still only 6-10 weeks for a model 3 SR and Q4 for model 3 performance.

[BobbyD]

SMMT figures for September:

Other Imports: 7,027

[odysseus2000]

* ID only, VW sold 22 fully electric models in China last year.

VW figures: https://cnevpost.com/2021/10/02/vw-id-s ... -from-aug/

Tesla figures: Reuters

**Official figures excluding exports only available for last few months

Despite exporting over 50,000 MIC cars in last 2 months waiting times in Mainland China are still only 6-10 weeks for a model 3 SR and Q4 for model 3 performance.

Suggests Tesla are keeping inventory in China so that any one there who wants a Tesla does not have to wait too long.

Regards,

[Howard]

* ID only, VW sold 22 fully electric models in China last year.

VW figures: https://cnevpost.com/2021/10/02/vw-id-s ... -from-aug/

Tesla figures: Reuters

**Official figures excluding exports only available for last few months

Despite exporting over 50,000 MIC cars in last 2 months waiting times in Mainland China are still only 6-10 weeks for a model 3 SR and Q4 for model 3 performance.

Suggests Tesla are keeping inventory in China so that any one there who wants a Tesla does not have to wait too long.

Regards,

Or are Tesla finding that competition from Chinese BEV manufacturers is getting tougher?

Am I right in remembering Tesla insisting that their Chinese plant was built to supply the home market in China. It would be so successful at home sales it wouldn't need to export many cars?

regards

Howard

[BobbyD]

* ID only, VW sold 22 fully electric models in China last year.

VW figures: https://cnevpost.com/2021/10/02/vw-id-s ... -from-aug/

Tesla figures: Reuters

**Official figures excluding exports only available for last few months

Despite exporting over 50,000 MIC cars in last 2 months waiting times in Mainland China are still only 6-10 weeks for a model 3 SR and Q4 for model 3 performance.

Suggests Tesla are keeping inventory in China so that any one there who wants a Tesla does not have to wait too long.

Regards,

China was supposed to have enough demand to keep Shanghai going full pelt on its own. They are exporting a vast majority of its output and yet waiting times are unaffected. These things can not all be true. The export numbers are official numbers, and the delivery estimates are Tesla's own, which leaves Chinese demand....

To put these figures in context China is a 20 million car a year market, in which VW sell over 3 million cars. If Tesla is anywhere close to satisfying demand with 20k vehicles in 2 months its failing to make even a scratch in the Chinese market we were lead to believe it was going to dominate, and which will only grow in importance as China continues to develop.

[BobbyD]

Or are Tesla finding that competition from Chinese BEV manufacturers is getting tougher?

Am I right in remembering Tesla insisting that their Chinese plant was built to supply the home market in China. It would be so successful at home sales it wouldn't need to export many cars?

There was a tweet (what else?) which stated that, but quickest find is this:

Last year, Wolfe Research's Dan Galves asked Elon Musk if there would be a possibility of exporting from Shanghai.

"No. Our plan is to source cars to the greater Europe area from Fremont, California until we have a European Gigafactory operational. That's probably a couple of years before — it's probably 2021 before we have an operational Gigafactory in Europe. And so [until] that time, we will source from California," Musk replied.

- https://www.thestreet.com/tesla/news/is ... a-shanghai

The other question you have to ask is what this says about Brandenburg. What's the shortest period it would make sense to divert cars en masse away from a prestige local market just to secure your position as 8th(?) biggest supplier in Europe for? A day? A week? A month? A quarter? It doesn't make any form of coherent sense unless Brandenburg is atleast what 3 quarters ...a year? away from making any significant contribution, not it should be noted that rationality ever appears to have had even the most casual relationship with Tesla's sales and distribution policies.

[odysseus2000]

BobbyD
To put these figures in context China is a 20 million car a year market, in which VW sell over 3 million cars. If Tesla is anywhere close to satisfying demand with 20k vehicles in 2 months its failing to make even a scratch in the Chinese market we were lead to believe it was going to dominate, and which will only grow in importance as China continues to develop.

20k in 2 months is 10k x 12 =120k per year, well over 12 % of Tesla's current output.

BobbyD
Last year, Wolfe Research's Dan Galves asked Elon Musk if there would be a possibility of exporting from Shanghai.

"No. Our plan is to source cars to the greater Europe area from Fremont, California until we have a European Gigafactory operational. That's probably a couple of years before — it's probably 2021 before we have an operational Gigafactory in Europe. And so [until] that time, we will source from California," Musk replied.

Yes, but the switch is all about trying to satisfy the extreme demand for Tesla cars in the US and Europe while also providing relatively quick delivery in China. A world wide manufacturer with limited factories has to adjust according to what the market is doing.

Meanwhile as Diess pointed out in last weeks VW crisis meeting:

https://news.in-24.com/business/189808.html

VW are seriously losing out on sales as their models and production are no longer competitive with Tesla able to build 3 cars in the time it takes VW to make 1.

If Tesla are having trouble selling in China to their target demographics, for which I can find no evidence, then VW will be in far more serious trouble as Diess pointed out.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Howard
Or are Tesla finding that competition from Chinese BEV manufacturers is getting tougher?

Am I right in remembering Tesla insisting that their Chinese plant was built to supply the home market in China. It would be so successful at home sales it wouldn't need to export many cars?

regards

Howard

It is VW that are in trouble China, see what Diess said last week:

https://news.in-24.com/business/189808.html

Soon there will hordes of Chinese BEV landing in Europe too, many pure BEV and all at much lower ticker prices than legacy auto is asking for its ICE, PHEV and BEV. This is all beginning to look like the massacre I have repeatedly said was coming.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

BobbyD
To put these figures in context China is a 20 million car a year market, in which VW sell over 3 million cars. If Tesla is anywhere close to satisfying demand with 20k vehicles in 2 months its failing to make even a scratch in the Chinese market we were lead to believe it was going to dominate, and which will only grow in importance as China continues to develop.

20k in 2 months is 10k x 12 =120k per year, well over 12 % of Tesla's current output.

Yes nowhere close to the hundreds of thousands which were being glibly waved around not so long ago...

Yes, but the switch is all about trying to satisfy the extreme demand for Tesla cars in the US and Europe while also providing relatively quick delivery in China. A world wide manufacturer with limited factories has to adjust according to what the market is doing.

But these figures suggest that the quick delivery in China is being achieved because of low demand. If there were still significant demand in China then delivery times would have shot out when they diverted the vast majority of Chinese production abroad to firm up 8th(?) place in Europe.

Meanwhile as Diess pointed out in last weeks VW crisis meeting:

What Diess actually said last week:

Herbert Diess

@Herbert_Diess

Met with Ralf Brandstätter & our top managers in Wolfsburg to kickoff the race against Tesla in Grünheide. We‘re ready! Trinity will revolutionize Wolfsburg.

- https://twitter.com/Herbert_Diess/statu ... gr%5Etweet

[odysseus2000]

BobbyD

What Diess actually said last week:


Herbert Diess

@Herbert_Diess

Met with Ralf Brandstätter & our top managers in Wolfsburg to kickoff the race against Tesla in Grünheide. We‘re ready! Trinity will revolutionize Wolfsburg.

- https://twitter.com/Herbert_Diess/statu ... gr%5Etweet

He said a lot of things as referenced in the link:

https://news.in-24.com/business/189808.html

Regards,

[Howard]

Howard
Or are Tesla finding that competition from Chinese BEV manufacturers is getting tougher?

Am I right in remembering Tesla insisting that their Chinese plant was built to supply the home market in China. It would be so successful at home sales it wouldn't need to export many cars?

regards

Howard

It is VW that are in trouble China, see what Diess said last week:

https://news.in-24.com/business/189808.html

Soon there will hordes of Chinese BEV landing in Europe too, many pure BEV and all at much lower ticker prices than legacy auto is asking for its ICE, PHEV and BEV. This is all beginning to look like the massacre I have repeatedly said was coming.

Regards,

It's always easier to forecast the future rather than to accept the present situation.

Yes, we'd have to agree that over the last 10 years you repeatedly forecast imminent doom for ICE manufacturers.

Hasn't happened yet. Might happen in the future - or it might not!

As Warren Buffet quipped:

“Forecasts tell you little about the future but a lot about the forecaster.”

regards

Howard

[odysseus2000]

As Warren Buffet quipped:

“Forecasts tell you little about the future but a lot about the forecaster.”

regards

Howard

Yes, but now the forecaster is the head of VW.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

As Warren Buffet quipped:

“Forecasts tell you little about the future but a lot about the forecaster.”

regards

Howard

Yes, but now the forecaster is the head of VW.

Regards,

You do love your unsourced reports of the going ons at the top of VW...

Diess believes in confrontation, and he's long campaigned to tighten up VW's operations. To that extent the talking points are quite believable, but if they are as reported they are Diess being Diess, putting a boot up the backside of VW and its unions not a white flag waving ceremony prophesying disaster at the hands of the Chinese. Some of the figures sound off, but then who would argue with News in 24s famous 'Deborah'? No need to get so excited, even if this report is accurate in gist this is what we pay Herr Diess for, fighting the good fight.

Now, how come you are so eager to talk about VW all of a sudden? Presumably a more comfortable topic than the apparent absence of demand for Teslas in China? If you can show how those figures don't indicate that the Chinese market lacks the demand for 300,000 Teslas a year, (or were we not hearing about Shanghai going to 500,000 at one point?) we are all ears.