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Musk endeavours

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Howard
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Re: Musk endeavours

#419131

Postby Howard » June 12th, 2021, 10:22 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
Howard wrote:


And Electrek agree with surveys like "Which" that a Model S range is much lower in colder climates. Commenting on Musk's claim they write:

"The comment was criticized for not accounting for the fact that a 400-mile range is closer to 250-300 miles in colder climates and depending on the conditions."

regards

Howard


The new thermal system with heat pump is supposed to increase the cold weather range by 30%.

It is not clear to me if this is going into all cars, or just the Plaid, but likely Plaid first then into other cars later.

Regards,


Since our discussion about the range of Teslas a few months ago on this thread I have had the opportunity to chat to a knowledgeable Tesla employee and he volunteered that in the UK in winter it is sensible to assume a Model 3 LR range will be reduced to quite a bit less than 300 miles. He mentioned that the heat pump adds a little, but in cold conditions he conceded most drivers want to use the car heater and have to accept a reduced range.

We didn't discuss the Model S but the same principle applies and independent tests show that its winter range for current cars is much lower than the theoretical claims. So Electrek's comments are valid in my view.

To be honest, I admit that he persuaded me that a lot of the earlier quality problems experienced in UK cars have now been addressed and the latest cars are of a high standard. He didn't counter my scepticism about the ability of FSD to read UK road situations though. ;)

regards

Howard

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#419468

Postby odysseus2000 » June 14th, 2021, 1:50 pm

Several folk have asked me why Plaid as a speed.

This comes from the movie Space balls, 3 mins 26 seconds clip::

https://youtu.be/NAWL8ejf2nM

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Re: Musk endeavours

#419564

Postby odysseus2000 » June 14th, 2021, 9:23 pm

Munro tear down of Mach E continues (9mins 11seconds):

https://youtu.be/8GfdAHy2Vng

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Re: Musk endeavours

#419574

Postby odysseus2000 » June 14th, 2021, 10:59 pm

36 minute video showing many of the features of the Plaid, both interior, including heating/cooling, ventilated seats, video (Cyber Punk not available) and going to driving and having the car decide which way you are likely to want to go. Overall it is the most amazing production car I have ever studied.

https://youtu.be/UO_X7zn5huA

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Re: Musk endeavours

#419598

Postby BobbyD » June 15th, 2021, 6:12 am

On May 20, 2021, Celina Mikolajczak accepted an employment offer by QuantumScape Battery, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of QuantumScape Corporation (the “Company”), where she will assume the title of Vice President of Manufacturing Engineering starting in July 2021. In her new role, Ms. Mikolajczak will lead the transition of the Company’s tools and manufacturing processes from research and development to production.

In connection with accepting this offer, she has resigned from the Company’s board of directors effective as of May 20, 2021.


- https://sec.report/Document/0001193125-21-170075/

Potted history from the announcement she was joining the board a heady 61 days ago.

Ms. Mikolajczak is currently Vice-President of Engineering & Battery Technology at Panasonic Energy of North America and has played an integral role in the development and scale-up of some of the most important battery technologies behind today’s electric vehicle revolution. Prior to joining Panasonic, Ms. Mikolajczak served as Director of Engineering focused on battery development for rideshare vehicles at Uber Technologies. Before that, she worked at Tesla Motors as the Senior Manager for Cell Quality and Materials Engineering, helping to develop the battery cells and packs for Tesla’s Model S, Model X, Model 3, and Roadster Refresh.


- https://ir.quantumscape.com/news/news-d ... fault.aspx

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Re: Musk endeavours

#419834

Postby odysseus2000 » June 16th, 2021, 12:17 am

Plaid faster than ICE supercars:

https://youtu.be/549bEDV9G0U

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420015

Postby odysseus2000 » June 16th, 2021, 5:58 pm

Munro says, Mach E has better doors than Tesla, but still too many fasteners (10 mins 50 seconds):

https://youtu.be/HMT3zFelkmw

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420047

Postby BobbyD » June 16th, 2021, 8:04 pm


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Re: Musk endeavours

#420294

Postby BobbyD » June 17th, 2021, 10:30 pm

VW readies ‘massive’ realignment to U.S. plans on Biden’s EV shift

VW brand development chief Thomas Ulbrich said an updated U.S. EV strategy is currently “being worked out.”

...VW is drafting plans “to realign to this in a massive way,” Ulbrich said. A final decision is set for later this year during the manufacturer’s annual investment review, and the updated U.S. electric-car strategy is currently “being worked out,” he said.

...Meanwhile, VW's Audi unit will stop introducing gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles from 2026, Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported on Thursday, citing comments made by Audi CEO Markus Duesmann to labor representatives and top managers.

The report said there would also no longer be any hybrid models from that date onwards.


- https://www.autonews.com/sales/vw-readi ... s-ev-shift

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420344

Postby odysseus2000 » June 18th, 2021, 8:25 am

Tesla performance claims independently verified for the Plaid, albeit under the normal track surface conditions for such tests, just a little slower on tarmac.

General opinion of the Plaid is extremely favourable:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/m ... st-review/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420353

Postby redsturgeon » June 18th, 2021, 8:56 am

odysseus2000 wrote:Tesla performance claims independently verified for the Plaid, albeit under the normal track surface conditions for such tests, just a little slower on tarmac.

General opinion of the Plaid is extremely favourable:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/m ... st-review/

Regards,


Does anyone really care how fast these cars are on the track? In my current role I am travelling about 4000 miles a months mainly on motorways. I have bought a 16 year old Honda for this purpose. It is quiet and refined at cruising speeds of 70mph which is all I can do on the mainly "smart" motorways I am travelling. I see a few Teslas on my journeys, I can't actually remember one overtaking me, they are mostly cruising at about 65 mph, I guess to save range.

For one of my weekly journeys I would have to drive more slowly in a Tesla than in my 16 year old Honda since the range would be very tight at any higher speed.

I looked into the economics of this quite carefully since clearly electricity would be much cheaper than fuel, but once depreciation is taken into account (or the price of leasing for 40,000 miles a year) the sums did not add up.

On the ecological front I guess I am also helping to save the planet by not buying a new car but running an old one.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420399

Postby BobbyD » June 18th, 2021, 10:20 am

redsturgeon wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:Tesla performance claims independently verified for the Plaid, albeit under the normal track surface conditions for such tests, just a little slower on tarmac.

General opinion of the Plaid is extremely favourable:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/m ... st-review/

Regards,


Does anyone really care how fast these cars are on the track? In my current role I am travelling about 4000 miles a months mainly on motorways. I have bought a 16 year old Honda for this purpose. It is quiet and refined at cruising speeds of 70mph which is all I can do on the mainly "smart" motorways I am travelling. I see a few Teslas on my journeys, I can't actually remember one overtaking me, they are mostly cruising at about 65 mph, I guess to save range.

For one of my weekly journeys I would have to drive more slowly in a Tesla than in my 16 year old Honda since the range would be very tight at any higher speed.

I looked into the economics of this quite carefully since clearly electricity would be much cheaper than fuel, but once depreciation is taken into account (or the price of leasing for 40,000 miles a year) the sums did not add up.

On the ecological front I guess I am also helping to save the planet by not buying a new car but running an old one.

John


The really funny thing is the lengths they have gone to to make the claim.

- It's not 0-60, with a 1 foot roll out it's closer to 5-60*

- They were only allowed to test the car at a specific circuit, with the tarmac prepared in a certain way.

- The 'Drag Strip mode' which was required takes between EIGHT MINUTES and FIFTEEN MINUTES to do it's thing!!!!!!


It's not just an inaccurate claim, and absolutely without utility but it's dripping with desperation. It's acceleration would have been plenty fast without all the misdirection and obfuscation which brings it in to disrepute, if going from 0-60 in 2.2s is your kind of thing.

Still if Tesla can put this amount of time and effort in to something as mind numbingly pointless as massaging the S's take off figures one has to assume that we will be seeing the X, X plaid, Roadster, Semi, CT, and FSD release version imminently!

*No it's not 'standard' it's not even how they measure the 0-60 for the model S LR.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420502

Postby odysseus2000 » June 18th, 2021, 2:33 pm

Does anyone really care how fast these cars are on the track? In my current role I am travelling about 4000 miles a months mainly on motorways. I have bought a 16 year old Honda for this purpose. It is quiet and refined at cruising speeds of 70mph which is all I can do on the mainly "smart" motorways I am travelling. I see a few Teslas on my journeys, I can't actually remember one overtaking me, they are mostly cruising at about 65 mph, I guess to save range.

For one of my weekly journeys I would have to drive more slowly in a Tesla than in my 16 year old Honda since the range would be very tight at any higher speed.

I looked into the economics of this quite carefully since clearly electricity would be much cheaper than fuel, but once depreciation is taken into account (or the price of leasing for 40,000 miles a year) the sums did not add up.

On the ecological front I guess I am also helping to save the planet by not buying a new car but running an old one.

John


Let us not forget that the Plaid is a premium car, designed for people who are very wealthy.

The objective of the Plaid is to demonstrate that BEV are substantially better than any ice car and can be made relatively cheaply.

In all these respects the Plaid is an extraordinary car and will imho generate sales to folk who have substantial incomes and want the best.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420503

Postby odysseus2000 » June 18th, 2021, 2:36 pm

BobbyD
The really funny thing is the lengths they have gone to to make the claim.

- It's not 0-60, with a 1 foot roll out it's closer to 5-60*

- They were only allowed to test the car at a specific circuit, with the tarmac prepared in a certain way.

- The 'Drag Strip mode' which was required takes between EIGHT MINUTES and FIFTEEN MINUTES to do it's thing!!!!!!


It's not just an inaccurate claim, and absolutely without utility but it's dripping with desperation. It's acceleration would have been plenty fast without all the misdirection and obfuscation which brings it in to disrepute, if going from 0-60 in 2.2s is your kind of thing.

Still if Tesla can put this amount of time and effort in to something as mind numbingly pointless as massaging the S's take off figures one has to assume that we will be seeing the X, X plaid, Roadster, Semi, CT, and FSD release version imminently!

*No it's not 'standard' it's not even how they measure the 0-60 for the model S LR.


The procedure and measurement practicalities are how premium cars are compared and have to be so, to set the test standards for top of the range cars and to give buyers of these cars quantitative comparisons.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420513

Postby odysseus2000 » June 18th, 2021, 3:14 pm

Mach E, rear tear down continues:

https://youtu.be/3mIZ6UNrfd4

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420530

Postby redsturgeon » June 18th, 2021, 4:03 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
Does anyone really care how fast these cars are on the track? In my current role I am travelling about 4000 miles a months mainly on motorways. I have bought a 16 year old Honda for this purpose. It is quiet and refined at cruising speeds of 70mph which is all I can do on the mainly "smart" motorways I am travelling. I see a few Teslas on my journeys, I can't actually remember one overtaking me, they are mostly cruising at about 65 mph, I guess to save range.

For one of my weekly journeys I would have to drive more slowly in a Tesla than in my 16 year old Honda since the range would be very tight at any higher speed.

I looked into the economics of this quite carefully since clearly electricity would be much cheaper than fuel, but once depreciation is taken into account (or the price of leasing for 40,000 miles a year) the sums did not add up.

On the ecological front I guess I am also helping to save the planet by not buying a new car but running an old one.

John


Let us not forget that the Plaid is a premium car, designed for people who are very wealthy.

The objective of the Plaid is to demonstrate that BEV are substantially better than any ice car and can be made relatively cheaply.

In all these respects the Plaid is an extraordinary car and will imho generate sales to folk who have substantial incomes and want the best.

Regards,


Unfortunately Tesla is not a premium car manufacturer. Yes it has some great technology but it cannot yet make cars to the high standards of fit and finish required by those who only want the very best.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420540

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » June 18th, 2021, 4:33 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:Tesla performance claims independently verified for the Plaid, albeit under the normal track surface conditions for such tests, just a little slower on tarmac.

General opinion of the Plaid is extremely favourable:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/m ... st-review/

Regards,


Does anyone really care how fast these cars are on the track? In my current role I am travelling about 4000 miles a months mainly on motorways. I have bought a 16 year old Honda for this purpose. It is quiet and refined at cruising speeds of 70mph which is all I can do on the mainly "smart" motorways I am travelling. I see a few Teslas on my journeys, I can't actually remember one overtaking me, they are mostly cruising at about 65 mph, I guess to save range.

For one of my weekly journeys I would have to drive more slowly in a Tesla than in my 16 year old Honda since the range would be very tight at any higher speed.

I looked into the economics of this quite carefully since clearly electricity would be much cheaper than fuel, but once depreciation is taken into account (or the price of leasing for 40,000 miles a year) the sums did not add up.

On the ecological front I guess I am also helping to save the planet by not buying a new car but running an old one.

John

All the cars we've owned for the past 17 years have been second hand Honda Civics. FWIW Teslas aren't exactly mass-market vehicles are they? Somewhat of luxury brand.

Kinda gob smacked at the current valuation of 600x earnings. Does that imply something north of 500% annual growth for about the next decade?

Matt

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420543

Postby odysseus2000 » June 18th, 2021, 4:35 pm

Unfortunately Tesla is not a premium car manufacturer. Yes it has some great technology but it cannot yet make cars to the high standards of fit and finish required by those who only want the very best.

John


All the objective car reviews I have seen are now rating Tesla has a premium car manufacturer.

By contrast some of legacy auto is struggling. The Munro tear down of the Mach E, showed how the Mach E had "oil-canning" on the rear wing and bad tail gate fitting, out by Munro's small finger for being flush.

Even Howard is now admitting that Tesla quality issues are long gone.

As the new casting technology begins to be used, body components that are reproducibly good to a few microns will be come standard.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420546

Postby redsturgeon » June 18th, 2021, 4:38 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
Unfortunately Tesla is not a premium car manufacturer. Yes it has some great technology but it cannot yet make cars to the high standards of fit and finish required by those who only want the very best.

John


All the objective car reviews I have seen are now rating Tesla has a premium car manufacturer.

By contrast some of legacy auto is struggling. The Munro tear down of the Mach E, showed how the Mach E had "oil-canning" on the rear wing and bad tail gate fitting, out by Munro's small finger for being flush.

Even Howard is now admitting that Tesla quality issues are long gone.

As the new casting technology begins to be used, body components that are reproducibly good to a few microns will be come standard.

Regards,


Not sure that Ford has ever been considered a premium brand.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#420552

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » June 18th, 2021, 4:50 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKwMryKqRE

Not exactly an endorsement of the design of the Model S's charging system.

Matt


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