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Musk endeavours

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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#417253

Postby odysseus2000 » June 4th, 2021, 9:51 am

BobbyD
The MEB pack does exactly what VW want of it. It's not going to be redesigned. They are going to push it in volume until it is superseded and then replaced by the unified cell. It was there to see VW through a period of supply uncertainty which is why it allowed for use of pouch or prismatic cells. As their supply of batteries becomes more certain, in no small part due to VW inserting themselves in to their own battery supply chain the standardisation at module level will be replaced by standardisation at cell level and the module will be eliminated as they move to cell to pack.

The really funny thing is that afterall the bluster about big oil conspiracies Ody ends up touting SABIC, a subsidiary of Saudi Aramco and backs using their plastics instead of good clean, and easy to recycle aluminium...


Yes, VW are happy to sell a heavy under performing car, engineered to be sufficiently bad that an ICE VW is preferable to a BEV so as to satisfy their owners and unions desire to keep ICE going as long as possible.

Clearly VW do not want to make the best BEV car they could. Of course they will sell some to folk who are happy to have a VW on their drive, but they will be being short changed in terms of performance and when they see their friends with better cars their allegiance to VW will be tested. What VW are doing is injurious to their own future.

Also many plastics are re-cyclable often easier than aluminium.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417256

Postby odysseus2000 » June 4th, 2021, 10:15 am

Great little cartoon from Elon:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/140 ... 40835?s=20

Also it is not clear from this cartoon, as to if Tesla have changed their mind about bitcoin and sold all their holding:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/140 ... 30501?s=20

If this is the case it might lead to trouble with the SEC.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417279

Postby Howard » June 4th, 2021, 11:38 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD
The MEB pack does exactly what VW want of it. It's not going to be redesigned. They are going to push it in volume until it is superseded and then replaced by the unified cell. It was there to see VW through a period of supply uncertainty which is why it allowed for use of pouch or prismatic cells. As their supply of batteries becomes more certain, in no small part due to VW inserting themselves in to their own battery supply chain the standardisation at module level will be replaced by standardisation at cell level and the module will be eliminated as they move to cell to pack.

The really funny thing is that afterall the bluster about big oil conspiracies Ody ends up touting SABIC, a subsidiary of Saudi Aramco and backs using their plastics instead of good clean, and easy to recycle aluminium...


Yes, VW are happy to sell a heavy under performing car, engineered to be sufficiently bad that an ICE VW is preferable to a BEV so as to satisfy their owners and unions desire to keep ICE going as long as possible.

Clearly VW do not want to make the best BEV car they could. Of course they will sell some to folk who are happy to have a VW on their drive, but they will be being short changed in terms of performance and when they see their friends with better cars their allegiance to VW will be tested. What VW are doing is injurious to their own future.

Also many plastics are re-cyclable often easier than aluminium.

Regards,


Ody

I think you place too much reliance on a fairly "out of touch" pundit who showed his bias and lack of competence when unable to use VW's satnav the other day. He kept trying the same key strokes, if I remember correctly, hoping that they would produce a different result. The classic definition of madness.

Engineering isn't the only skill required to make really good cars. Quality control and listening to customers are vital.

For example, look at the current thread about "phantom braking" on the Tesla Motor Club thread. This fault which causes Model 3s using cruise control to suddenly brake violently when the car senses a phantom junction or other situation scares passengers and forces drivers to have their foot permanently resting on the accelerator to counteract it. It's affecting a lot of drivers.

There are other irritating faults regularly reported, like indicator malfunctions, wiper malfunctions and headlight malfunctions. These are possibly minor issues but they shouldn't be present in a quality car.

By the way, our KIA is still behaving impeccably. No irritating malfunctions and it has capable, sensible software which works really well. It doesn't accelerate ludicrously but otherwise outperforms a Tesla in everyday driving - so far.

Tesla aren't reacting fast enough to correct their software and reputational problems and this could be a serious drag on their sales going forward. They are making a few efforts in China and forgive my smile as I type this. Electrek yesterday reported that Tesla China are “looking to hire more PR and marketing people :) in the country, according to new job listings".

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417317

Postby odysseus2000 » June 4th, 2021, 1:30 pm

Howard wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD
The MEB pack does exactly what VW want of it. It's not going to be redesigned. They are going to push it in volume until it is superseded and then replaced by the unified cell. It was there to see VW through a period of supply uncertainty which is why it allowed for use of pouch or prismatic cells. As their supply of batteries becomes more certain, in no small part due to VW inserting themselves in to their own battery supply chain the standardisation at module level will be replaced by standardisation at cell level and the module will be eliminated as they move to cell to pack.

The really funny thing is that afterall the bluster about big oil conspiracies Ody ends up touting SABIC, a subsidiary of Saudi Aramco and backs using their plastics instead of good clean, and easy to recycle aluminium...


Yes, VW are happy to sell a heavy under performing car, engineered to be sufficiently bad that an ICE VW is preferable to a BEV so as to satisfy their owners and unions desire to keep ICE going as long as possible.

Clearly VW do not want to make the best BEV car they could. Of course they will sell some to folk who are happy to have a VW on their drive, but they will be being short changed in terms of performance and when they see their friends with better cars their allegiance to VW will be tested. What VW are doing is injurious to their own future.

Also many plastics are re-cyclable often easier than aluminium.

Regards,


Ody

I think you place too much reliance on a fairly "out of touch" pundit who showed his bias and lack of competence when unable to use VW's satnav the other day. He kept trying the same key strokes, if I remember correctly, hoping that they would produce a different result. The classic definition of madness.

Engineering isn't the only skill required to make really good cars. Quality control and listening to customers are vital.

For example, look at the current thread about "phantom braking" on the Tesla Motor Club thread. This fault which causes Model 3s using cruise control to suddenly brake violently when the car senses a phantom junction or other situation scares passengers and forces drivers to have their foot permanently resting on the accelerator to counteract it. It's affecting a lot of drivers.

There are other irritating faults regularly reported, like indicator malfunctions, wiper malfunctions and headlight malfunctions. These are possibly minor issues but they shouldn't be present in a quality car.

By the way, our KIA is still behaving impeccably. No irritating malfunctions and it has capable, sensible software which works really well. It doesn't accelerate ludicrously but otherwise outperforms a Tesla in everyday driving - so far.

Tesla aren't reacting fast enough to correct their software and reputational problems and this could be a serious drag on their sales going forward. They are making a few efforts in China and forgive my smile as I type this. Electrek yesterday reported that Tesla China are “looking to hire more PR and marketing people :) in the country, according to new job listings".

regards

Howard


Well you may know more than someone who has 50 years of experience in manufacturing, but it all sounds like the British car industry as it refused to modernise & ridiculed the new competitors from Japan as bring unsuitable for UK drivers, but it didn't end well & VW are going in the identical route as they try to keep selling ICE cars.

Incidentally having machined castings for the new Tesla cars will allow panel accuracy in the microns, not the mm that are the current norms.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417324

Postby BobbyD » June 4th, 2021, 1:42 pm

Yet more VW abject failure...

At the automotive group level, VW Group dominated in May, taking 23% of the UK BEV market. Hyundai motor group was in #2 spot with 17% and Tesla in #3 with 14%.


- https://cleantechnica.com/2021/06/04/uk ... ar-brands/

Edited to add: Q2 to date 34% of pureblood BEV's sold in Norway are VW's, and 37% of pureblood BEV's sold in May in the The Netherlands were VW's. Pitiful!

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417347

Postby Howard » June 4th, 2021, 3:50 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
Howard wrote:
Tesla aren't reacting fast enough to correct their software and reputational problems and this could be a serious drag on their sales going forward. They are making a few efforts in China and forgive my smile as I type this. Electrek yesterday reported that Tesla China are “looking to hire more PR and marketing people :) in the country, according to new job listings".

regards

Howard


Well you may know more than someone who has 50 years of experience in manufacturing, but it all sounds like the British car industry as it refused to modernise & ridiculed the new competitors from Japan as bring unsuitable for UK drivers, but it didn't end well & VW are going in the identical route as they try to keep selling ICE cars.

Incidentally having machined castings for the new Tesla cars will allow panel accuracy in the microns, not the mm that are the current norms.

Regards,


I believe the engineers were looking at the wake of the Titanic, congratulating themselves on their machining tolerances, just before it hit the iceberg. ;)

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417352

Postby BobbyD » June 4th, 2021, 4:17 pm

Howard wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
Howard wrote:
Tesla aren't reacting fast enough to correct their software and reputational problems and this could be a serious drag on their sales going forward. They are making a few efforts in China and forgive my smile as I type this. Electrek yesterday reported that Tesla China are “looking to hire more PR and marketing people :) in the country, according to new job listings".

regards

Howard


Well you may know more than someone who has 50 years of experience in manufacturing, but it all sounds like the British car industry as it refused to modernise & ridiculed the new competitors from Japan as bring unsuitable for UK drivers, but it didn't end well & VW are going in the identical route as they try to keep selling ICE cars.

Incidentally having machined castings for the new Tesla cars will allow panel accuracy in the microns, not the mm that are the current norms.

Regards,


I believe the engineers were looking at the wake of the Titanic, congratulating themselves on their machining tolerances, just before it hit the iceberg. ;)

regards

Howard


Next time I need a good example of overengineering...

I'm somewhat confused. Legacy manufacturers are doomed because they still 'think' like its the year 2000, but Sandy Munro is an authority because he has been working for legacy manufacturers for 50 years....

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417370

Postby odysseus2000 » June 4th, 2021, 5:26 pm

Howard
Next time I need a good example of overengineering...

I'm somewhat confused. Legacy manufacturers are doomed because they still 'think' like its the year 2000, but Sandy Munro is an authority because he has been working for legacy manufacturers for 50 years....


Munro saw the destruction of the US auto business by the Japanese, warned about it, but was ignored.

The reason he works as an independent is that his experience when employed by legacy is that they are too slow to change and do not use the best practice. His business is to offer them (for a price) alternative ways of doing things, but he knows from experience that most legacy will not adopt better practice due to out dated and myopic management and boards that are full of folk who do not understand the business. Hence most US auto makers, save for Ford and Tesla, have had to be bailed out by the politicians having gone bankrupt. VW are now making all the same mistakes that US auto did when the Japanese came.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417680

Postby onthemove » June 6th, 2021, 1:58 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:Not clear if Tesla has or will sell its bitcoin holding:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musk-imp ... 01769.html

Bitcoin has been a good short since the 11th of May:

https://twitter.com/0_ody/status/139408 ... 97856?s=20

It is interesting to see the brutal exchanges on twitter.

For anyone who knows how to trade technically, the Cryptos have been a gold mine that keeps on giving.

Regards,


Seems like Musk's cryptocurrency endeavors have managed to annoy some immature, fancy dress wearing kiddies (imv judging by their behavior; they'll have to show their faces and start acting like grown ups to even start to remotely convince me otherwise)...

"The hacking group Anonymous has issued a threat to Elon Musk, accusing the billionaire Tesla owner of having liquidated dreams and “destroyed lives” with his tweets about cryptocurrencies."
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/hacki ... 33158.html


I'm guessing that Musk's tweets wrong footed their cryptocurrency dalliance and now they're throwing a tantrum.

“You [Elon Musk] may think you are the smartest person in the room, but now you’ve met your match. We are anonymous. We are Legion. Expect us.”


:roll:

Oh dear. I can only presume they've been watching too many movies.

While I'm not Musk's greatest fan, at least in contrast, he is on the whole is trying to do constructive things, and create things of value and benefit to mankind.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417690

Postby BobbyD » June 6th, 2021, 2:44 pm

onthemove wrote:
Seems like Musk's cryptocurrency endeavors have managed to annoy some immature, fancy dress wearing kiddies (imv judging by their behavior; they'll have to show their faces and start acting like grown ups to even start to remotely convince me otherwise)...


Do we have to wait for you to unmask before we can take your criticism o9f them seriously though?

onthemove wrote:
"The hacking group Anonymous has issued a threat to Elon Musk, accusing the billionaire Tesla owner of having liquidated dreams and “destroyed lives” with his tweets about cryptocurrencies."


It's hard to see how that isn't true given the cavalier way in which he releases tweets whose sentiments show a remarkable correlation to the price of certain cryptos and even Tesla itself.

onthemove wrote:
Seems like Musk's cryptocurrency endeavors have managed to annoy some immature, fancy dress wearing kiddies (imv judging by their behavior; they'll have to show their faces and start acting like grown ups to even start to remotely convince me otherwise)...

"The hacking group Anonymous has issued a threat to Elon Musk, accusing the billionaire Tesla owner of having liquidated dreams and “destroyed lives” with his tweets about cryptocurrencies."
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/hacki ... 33158.html


I'm guessing that Musk's tweets wrong footed their cryptocurrency dalliance and now they're throwing a tantrum.

While I'm not Musk's greatest fan, at least in contrast, he is on the whole is trying to do constructive things, and create things of value and benefit to mankind.


I think that's a very generous interpretation.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417692

Postby odysseus2000 » June 6th, 2021, 2:54 pm

My biggest fear for Tesla & the rest of Musk's endeavours is that he should be injured or killed by a single extremist acting upon what he or she sees as some great injury that Musk has done to some one or something the person cares about.

The kind of threat issued by Anonymous rings alarm bells, not necessarily for what they might do, but that someone who has been festering with rage & injustice against Musk might decide to act first for the glory, as they see it, of ridding the world of a devil.

US security services will have likely infiltrated Anonymous after their attacks on corporate America, but stopping one lone maniac is much more of a challenge.

Should such an outrage occur the chance of getting out of Tesla equity at anything like a good price will depend upon whether the outrage occurs during or outside of market hours. Possible chance for a market open exit before the stock is suspended if you happen to get the news fast, but otherwise it seems highly likely that the stock will gap down as folk scramble to sell.

This imho is a very serious risk factor for owners of Tesla equity. One can hedge with puts, but that is expensive over a long time frame.

IMHO the best approach is to keep ones holding to a manageable size, however if you are convinced the stock goes up long term such a limit would restrict potential gains and we return to the risk/reward ratio that an investor is prepared to accept.

Caveat emptor!

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417709

Postby Itsallaguess » June 6th, 2021, 3:55 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
My biggest fear for Tesla & the rest of Musk's endeavours is that he should be injured or killed by a single extremist acting upon what he or she sees as some great injury that Musk has done to some one or something the person cares about.

....

Should such an outrage occur the chance of getting out of Tesla equity at anything like a good price will depend upon whether the outrage occurs during or outside of market hours. Possible chance for a market open exit before the stock is suspended if you happen to get the news fast, but otherwise it seems highly likely that the stock will gap down as folk scramble to sell.

This imho is a very serious risk factor for owners of Tesla equity.


Isn't that a little dramatic?

If he's such a huge 'single-point-of-failure' (and I'm not arguing that he's not...), then there's much more likely and much more mundane risks to his health to have to worry about, surely....?

He's nearly 50....no spring chicken....hangs around self-driving cars a lot, I imagine....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417710

Postby BobbyD » June 6th, 2021, 4:04 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
My biggest fear for Tesla & the rest of Musk's endeavours is that he should be injured or killed by a single extremist acting upon what he or she sees as some great injury that Musk has done to some one or something the person cares about.

....

Should such an outrage occur the chance of getting out of Tesla equity at anything like a good price will depend upon whether the outrage occurs during or outside of market hours. Possible chance for a market open exit before the stock is suspended if you happen to get the news fast, but otherwise it seems highly likely that the stock will gap down as folk scramble to sell.

This imho is a very serious risk factor for owners of Tesla equity.


Isn't that a little dramatic?

If he's such a huge 'single-point-of-failure' (and I'm not arguing that he's not...), then there's much more likely and much more mundane risks to his health to have to worry about, surely....?

He's nearly 50....no spring chicken....hangs around self-driving cars a lot, I imagine....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


It's also difficult to see how a more realistic stock price, the chance of proper corporate governance, and a proper corporate structure which gave Tesla a bandwidth more fitting for a multi-billion dollar company, and possibly actually allowed a few of those products to come to fruition, would be a bad thing for Tesla....

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417728

Postby odysseus2000 » June 6th, 2021, 6:16 pm

Isn't that a little dramatic?

If he's such a huge 'single-point-of-failure' (and I'm not arguing that he's not...), then there's much more likely and much more mundane risks to his health to have to worry about, surely....?

He's nearly 50....no spring chicken....hangs around self-driving cars a lot, I imagine....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


If Musk lived in the UK, where the politicians & their employees have a monopoly on violence, the more normal risks/reward calculus would apply, but he lives in the US where there are many more arms and more knowledge and experience of mindless murder and assassinations adding imho, more risk than if he lived outside of the US.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417789

Postby BobbyD » June 7th, 2021, 12:00 am

BobbyD wrote:It's also difficult to see how a more realistic stock price, the chance of proper corporate governance, and a proper corporate structure which gave Tesla a bandwidth more fitting for a multi-billion dollar company, and possibly actually allowed a few of those products to come to fruition, would be a bad thing for Tesla....


Speaking of bringing projects to fruition, or not.

Elon Musk

@elonmusk

Plaid+ is canceled. No need, as Plaid is just so good.


- https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1401641347040284679

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417791

Postby odysseus2000 » June 7th, 2021, 12:12 am

BobbyD wrote:
BobbyD wrote:It's also difficult to see how a more realistic stock price, the chance of proper corporate governance, and a proper corporate structure which gave Tesla a bandwidth more fitting for a multi-billion dollar company, and possibly actually allowed a few of those products to come to fruition, would be a bad thing for Tesla....


Speaking of bringing projects to fruition, or not.

Elon Musk

@elonmusk

Plaid+ is canceled. No need, as Plaid is just so good.


- https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1401641347040284679


Perhaps Plaid+ wasn't selling enough to justify the additional work, so made the business decision to cancel it and use the excuse that the Plaid is just so good, no one needs the Plaid+.

Looks like good business to me.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417812

Postby odysseus2000 » June 7th, 2021, 7:50 am

Best selling EV in China:

https://twitter.com/i/events/1401714011171811335?s=20

Doubt it will sell well in the UK or US.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#417961

Postby BobbyD » June 7th, 2021, 4:50 pm

Massive Range Test Staged In Norway: 21 EVs Driven Until Dead

The Norwegian Automotive Federation (NAF for short) staged its second electric vehicle range test this year. It tested 21 new EVs, driving them on a full charge of their batteries, until they died on the side of the road. The goal of the test was to not only see the vehicles’ actual real-world range, but to also see just how accurate the claimed WLTP range really is.

...Out of the total number of vehicles, only the Hyundai Kona had been previously range tested by the organization. The other twenty were the Ford Mustang Mach-E (Long Range AWD and Long Range RWD), Tesla Model 3 (Standard Range and Long Range), Volkswagen ID.3 Pro S and ID.4, Skoda Enyaq, Polestar 2, Audi E-Tron GT, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Xpeng G3, BMW iX3, Mercedes-Benz EQA, Volvo XC40 Recharge, Citroen e-C4, Opel Mokka-E, Fiat 500, Honda e and Mazda MX-30.

...Out of the total 21 vehicles tested, 18 exceeded their WLTP range, according to NAF. The three vehicles that didn’t were the Polestar 2, Citroen e-C4 and the Xpeng G3 that fell short by 3, 5 and 12 km (1.9, 3.1 and 7.4 miles) respectively. But even these three provided impressive results, considering the fact that the WLTP test cycle, while more accurate than NEDC, often provides optimistic results that can’t really be achieved in the real world.


- https://insideevs.com/news/512426/norwa ... ange-test/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#418009

Postby odysseus2000 » June 7th, 2021, 10:12 pm

Munro tear down of the ID4 motor.

Quite interesting how VW have done this and generally Munro likes a lot of the design although not the extensive use of threaded fasteners (34:54 minutes:seconds)

https://youtu.be/3Bab6CttkEY

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Re: Musk endeavours

#418020

Postby odysseus2000 » June 7th, 2021, 11:13 pm

Tesla head of heavy trucking departs the company:

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3703931-t ... king_alpha

Regards,


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