The Lemon Fool

Tesla MIC Aug insured units:
Model 3: 1,273
Model Y: 1,529
(CBIRC via 汽车电子设计)

The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla

Cathie Wood’s Tesla Stock Sales Hit $297 Million This Month...

BobbyD wrote:

The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla

- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla

BobbyD wrote:

Cathie Wood’s Tesla Stock Sales Hit $297 Million This Month...

- https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanpo ... g-instead/

odysseus2000 wrote:

BobbyD wrote:

The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla

- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla

And rather expensive at around $160k.

Regards,

BobbyD wrote:

odysseus2000 wrote:

BobbyD wrote:
- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla

And rather expensive at around $160k.

Regards,

Compare to say the Plaid with a measly 400 mile range for £120,000?

I had a strange feeling range was going to cease being the single most important in a BEV right about now....

BobbyD wrote:

odysseus2000 wrote:

BobbyD wrote:
The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range

Over 100 miles more than the longest-range Tesla

- https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/16/2267 ... ting-tesla

And rather expensive at around $160k.

Compare to say the Plaid with a measly 400 mile range for £120,000?

I had a strange feeling range was going to cease being the single most important in a BEV right about now....

odysseus2000 wrote:
The new Model S, Model X are pitched at folk for whom the entry price is a very small fraction of their net worth. This demographic can buy anything that any auto maker puts out and all the automakers have expensive cars to sell to these rich folk.

The predominant question for the engineering teams is how to get a rich person to buy your car and not one from another maker. One way to do this is to present your car as the best car that can be bought in terms of performance, hence the extremely quick 0-60 times etc.

One can ask why even bother aiming at this demographic when there are many more potential buyers who can only afford a less expensive car. There are several answers to this: Top of the range cars, don't cost that much more to make and thence have better margins. Also by creating such a fast car you are demonstrating the prowess of your engineering teams and implying that a less powerful and more affordable machine will still be designed by some of the best auto engineers in the business, adding status and cred to your less powerful offerings.

odysseus2000 wrote:
Someone buys a new car, say a Kia, Ford, Vauxhall... hardly anyone cares, folk just yawn.

Someone buys a Ferrari and even the folk who know nothing about cars will know that this isn't a base car, that the person who is buying it is wealthy with a high social position in society.

It takes a lot of effort to build a brand and command higher margin profits, but the business that do become more than the boring household names just by virtue of lower sales of much more expensive cars.

If we have to go back through this 380-page thread and point out all the times that Ody has raised the 'Apple' approach as being exactly the right one to aim for with regards to Tesla focussing on high net-worth drivers, then I would hope we'd agree that there'd be too many quotes to sensibly link to...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Itsallaguess wrote:
Surely Ody can see the inconsistencies in his own pro-Tesla arguments here?

BobbyD wrote:

Itsallaguess wrote:
Surely Ody can see the inconsistencies in his own pro-Tesla arguments here?

odysseus2000 wrote:
Ha Ha, Yes, but Tesla was first mover in this space and used the "Apple model" to kick start the industry and to build its dominant position in the BEV market with both models and Super Charger deployment.

It is now much harder for a competitor like Lucid to come in as while Tesla was competing with no one, Lucid is competing with Tesla and legacy and a growing bunch of Chinese marques.

The market is now very different than when Tesla began with much more BEV choice. What does Lucid offer? Circa 20% better range than the long range Tesla and that seems to be it, at a relatively high price.

Tesla is the Apple of BEV, all other competitors now have to compete against them in terms of capital, technical developments, innovation, brand recognition, performance,...etc.

There were a few times in Tesla's history when it was weak and vulnerable and when concerted effort by a legacy maker could have created potential mortal wounds, but that opportunity for legacy has gone.

Regards,

BobbyD
However I suspect Ody is as likely to see the inherent contradictions in his constant ramping of Tesla as Tesla are to actually produce the new Roadster (scheduled for a 2014 reelease), or a functioning Autonomous car.

odysseus2000 wrote:Most people in the developed world have heard of Musk...

odysseus2000 wrote:...but i doubt many could tell you who runs GM, Ford, VW, Toyota, Mercedes etc.

odysseus2000 wrote:Sure Tesla have not delivered on some of their promises...

odysseus2000 wrote:...but they have delivered on enough to take the top spot in the BEV world

Howard
Once BEVs have a real range of over 400 miles in winter conditions it's likely that most customers won't bother about remote charging as it will rarely be necessary. A 7kW home charger will put a lot of mileage into a BEV overnight.

BobbyD
...they entered a market before it was in the best interests of their competition to do so. They are literally playing a different game to established auto at this stage, and comparing scores is as ridiculous as comparing rugby and football scorelines. That said the only market they are still a dominant force in is their home market, which is virtually uncontested at the moment, although VW European overspill has mopped up about 8% of it.