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Investing from Saudi Arabia

Financial discussion for any financial queries for Expats
evilbungle
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Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520866

Postby evilbungle » August 9th, 2022, 6:43 am

I am soon going to be moving to Saudi Arabia for a few years, The salary I have been offered is good and tax free but I am not sure on what I should be doing with it.

Should I be looking to keep the money in a Saudi Bank Account? Should I try and bring it back to the UK asap (and if so how?) or should I be looking to invest in assets from Saudi that I can then access when I am back in the UK? Or should I try moving it into Gold or some other physical asset I can bring back with me?

I know that I can't add to my ISA or Pension whilst I am there but not sure what I should be doing to make sure I maximise my income and protect it from anything going wrong.

I am hoping that some of you have been in a similar position and can at least advice me where I should be looking with my research (I am a bit too clueless at the moment.)

dealtn
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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520894

Postby dealtn » August 9th, 2022, 8:25 am

evilbungle wrote:I am soon going to be moving to Saudi Arabia for a few years, The salary I have been offered is good and tax free but I am not sure on what I should be doing with it.

Should I be looking to keep the money in a Saudi Bank Account? Should I try and bring it back to the UK asap (and if so how?) or should I be looking to invest in assets from Saudi that I can then access when I am back in the UK? Or should I try moving it into Gold or some other physical asset I can bring back with me?

I know that I can't add to my ISA or Pension whilst I am there but not sure what I should be doing to make sure I maximise my income and protect it from anything going wrong.

I am hoping that some of you have been in a similar position and can at least advice me where I should be looking with my research (I am a bit too clueless at the moment.)


Where do you envisage being after those "few years"?

evilbungle
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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520899

Postby evilbungle » August 9th, 2022, 8:32 am

dealtn wrote:Where do you envisage being after those "few years"?


Looking to come back to the UK afterwards.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520905

Postby dealtn » August 9th, 2022, 8:41 am

evilbungle wrote:
dealtn wrote:Where do you envisage being after those "few years"?


Looking to come back to the UK afterwards.


In which case I wouldn't look to keep long term savings, or investments, in Saudi, or in that currency. I would repatriate and invest in the UK (in UK, or global assets).

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520915

Postby BBLSP1 » August 9th, 2022, 9:04 am

I’ve worked around the Middle East and Africa for the past 25 years, including in KSA 2009 – 2011.

I was able to operate a UK brokerage account online from KSA using my UK bank account to transfer funds in.

You need to ensure that you keep your UK bank account open and a UK address of some sort before leaving and have opened a brokerage account as well.

You need to check tax rules, in particular to ensure you get a full tax year out so as to be non-resident. You could work e.g. 09 Apr 2023 – 30 March 2025 and still not qualify as non-resident for either 2023/24 or 2024/25, whereas working 01 April 2023 – 10 April 2024 would qualify you for 2023/24. The rules are quite specific to your personal circumstances.

I have never bothered with off-shore accounts (Jersey, IoM etc.). These are, in my opinion, more for UK residents who have overseas earnings they don’t want to bring into the UK. I was paid directly into my UK account whilst in KSA, and as I was non-resident, that is not a problem tax wise.

With the advent of 2FA on most accounts nowadays, it is best to keep a UK SIM to receive passcodes on. Either a dual SIM phone will work, or, as in my case, a GBP20 Nokia dumb phone with my UK SIM inside. Make sure your UK network will receive in KSA. You will need to actually use the number briefly every so often, usually every 6 months, to keep the number active.

torata
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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520940

Postby torata » August 9th, 2022, 10:16 am

evilbungle wrote:I know that I can't add to my ISA or Pension whilst I am there but not sure what I should be doing to make sure I maximise my income and protect it from anything going wrong.


You can contribute to a SIPP for 5 tax years after you leave the UK, albeit at the minimum rate.

torata

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520945

Postby Dod101 » August 9th, 2022, 10:31 am

BBLSP1 wrote:I’ve worked around the Middle East and Africa for the past 25 years, including in KSA 2009 – 2011.

I was able to operate a UK brokerage account online from KSA using my UK bank account to transfer funds in.

You need to ensure that you keep your UK bank account open and a UK address of some sort before leaving and have opened a brokerage account as well.

You need to check tax rules, in particular to ensure you get a full tax year out so as to be non-resident. You could work e.g. 09 Apr 2023 – 30 March 2025 and still not qualify as non-resident for either 2023/24 or 2024/25, whereas working 01 April 2023 – 10 April 2024 would qualify you for 2023/24. The rules are quite specific to your personal circumstances.

I have never bothered with off-shore accounts (Jersey, IoM etc.). These are, in my opinion, more for UK residents who have overseas earnings they don’t want to bring into the UK. I was paid directly into my UK account whilst in KSA, and as I was non-resident, that is not a problem tax wise.

With the advent of 2FA on most accounts nowadays, it is best to keep a UK SIM to receive passcodes on. Either a dual SIM phone will work, or, as in my case, a GBP20 Nokia dumb phone with my UK SIM inside. Make sure your UK network will receive in KSA. You will need to actually use the number briefly every so often, usually every 6 months, to keep the number active.


I am sure you mean non resident in the UK for tax purposes but it is as well to make that clear.

Dod

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520954

Postby BBLSP1 » August 9th, 2022, 10:58 am

Dod101 wrote:
BBLSP1 wrote:I have never bothered with off-shore accounts (Jersey, IoM etc.). These are, in my opinion, more for UK residents who have overseas earnings they don’t want to bring into the UK. I was paid directly into my UK account whilst in KSA, and as I was non-resident, that is not a problem tax wise.


I am sure you mean non resident in the UK for tax purposes but it is as well to make that clear.

Dod


Dod - I mention 'non-resident in a few places. I suspect you meant the above section. In that case, I meant what I said; if you are non-resident, I have never seen the point of having an off-shore account. Instead, these are useful for UK residents who have earnings from, for want of a better expression, unreliable countries, and so want those earnings in a safe(er) environment awaiting deployment without ever coming onshore UK. If you are non-resident and your spending is in the UK, then just send it to your UK bank account (if you can keep one). Sure, if you are non-resident and have lost and cannot open a UK bank account, then off-shore may be the only option.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520969

Postby Dod101 » August 9th, 2022, 11:23 am

I actually meant what I said, that is that you are, I assume, referring to being non resident in the UK for tax purposes. I spent 23 years in Hong Kong and was very careful to remain non resident for tax in the UK for all of that time although I had a house here and my kids attended boarding schools in the UK. In these days, I very much had an off shore account in Jersey where my sterling reserves were kept. I maintained an onshore account as well because it was convenient to have one. I closed my Jersey account when I returned to live in the UK simply because there was no point in maintaining it. I had to disclose any income from it to HMRC as any resident for tax in the UK is or at least was liable for tax on his worldwide income to the UK exchequer.

Were I resident in Saudi Arabia I would not be quite so sanguine about remitting everything back to the UK. In what currency will the OP be paid?

Dod

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#520971

Postby BullDog » August 9th, 2022, 11:29 am

Dod101 wrote:I actually meant what I said, that is that you are, I assume, referring to being non resident in the UK for tax purposes. I spent 23 years in Hong Kong and was very careful to remain non resident for tax in the UK for all of that time although I had a house here and my kids attended boarding schools in the UK. In these days, I very much had an off shore account in Jersey where my sterling reserves were kept. I maintained an onshore account as well because it was convenient to have one. I closed my Jersey account when I returned to live in the UK simply because there was no point in maintaining it. I had to disclose any income from it to HMRC as any resident for tax in the UK is or at least was liable for tax on his worldwide income to the UK exchequer.

Were I resident in Saudi Arabia I would not be quite so sanguine about remitting everything back to the UK. In what currency will the OP be paid?

Dod

Exactly what Dod says. I opened an account in IoM with the same bank I use on the mainland. The day I got paid by an Oman company into an Oman bank account, it was transferred to the IoM account. Mostly the same when I was elsewhere in the world. In Australia I was content holding money locally.

Once I was permanently back in the UK, the IoM account was closed.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#521006

Postby evilbungle » August 9th, 2022, 12:48 pm

Dod101 wrote:In what currency will the OP be paid?

Dod


I will be getting paid in Saudi Riyals to a Saudi bank. So will be looking to pass them into GBP at some point, but not sure if it is best to do this as I get paid, or if I should buy assets with them in Riyals (Dollars) and then look at how I convert these to GBP when I am coming back. Would I still be liable for CGT for assets brought outside the UK (Although I assume I can avoid this by selling them before I am back.)

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#521008

Postby BBLSP1 » August 9th, 2022, 12:49 pm

If you want an off-shore account then fine, but I have never had an issue as a non-resident in sending money back directly to my UK bank account and so have never had the need of an off-shore account. I still do an annual UK tax return for my UK dividends and rental income and I declare the country which I am resident in, but do not have to state my overseas income or pay any (UK) tax on it.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#521014

Postby BBLSP1 » August 9th, 2022, 12:56 pm

evilbungle wrote:I will be getting paid in Saudi Riyals to a Saudi bank. So will be looking to pass them into GBP at some point, but not sure if it is best to do this as I get paid, or if I should buy assets with them in Riyals (Dollars) and then look at how I convert these to GBP when I am coming back. Would I still be liable for CGT for assets brought outside the UK (Although I assume I can avoid this by selling them before I am back.)


Employment overseas has a way of carrying on longer than anticipated. I would look to ensure non-residency is satisfied and then send the money out of KSA as soon as possible. If the money is still in KSA or off-shore as you approach a return and resumption of UK residency, you will need to plan the transfer back into the UK carefully.

Be aware of the so called 'split year' treatment whereby once you have achieved a complete UK tax year non-resident, the departing and returning years may be split into resident/non-resident.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#521036

Postby evilbungle » August 9th, 2022, 1:40 pm

BBLSP1 wrote:Be aware of the so called 'split year' treatment whereby once you have achieved a complete UK tax year non-resident, the departing and returning years may be split into resident/non-resident.


Thanks, I was reading about this. How can I split the year I leave (This current tax year) after I have completed a full tax year (Which will be next tax year) surely I will need to notify them on this year's tax return (after April 23) that I left the country in September 22 rather than waiting until after my first non-resident year (23/24) where I won't be completing that tax return until after April 24 - Or have I missed understood what this is doing?

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#521039

Postby BullDog » August 9th, 2022, 1:46 pm

evilbungle wrote:
BBLSP1 wrote:Be aware of the so called 'split year' treatment whereby once you have achieved a complete UK tax year non-resident, the departing and returning years may be split into resident/non-resident.


Thanks, I was reading about this. How can I split the year I leave (This current tax year) after I have completed a full tax year (Which will be next tax year) surely I will need to notify them on this year's tax return (after April 23) that I left the country in September 22 rather than waiting until after my first non-resident year (23/24) where I won't be completing that tax return until after April 24 - Or have I missed understood what this is doing?

You need to read RDR3 which explains everything and has a number of worked examples. Likely you will find a worked example that fits your circumstances.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-srt-rdr3

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#521044

Postby BBLSP1 » August 9th, 2022, 1:54 pm

evilbungle wrote:Thanks, I was reading about this. How can I split the year I leave (This current tax year) after I have completed a full tax year (Which will be next tax year) surely I will need to notify them on this year's tax return (after April 23) that I left the country in September 22 rather than waiting until after my first non-resident year (23/24) where I won't be completing that tax return until after April 24 - Or have I missed understood what this is doing?


Not sure where you are reading, but this is a good source:

https://www.gov.uk/tax-right-retire-abroad-return-to-uk

It was a while back for me, 1997, but I would guess you do it on intention, i.e. if you leave later this year and intend to remain overseas throughout the 2023/24 tax year, then you can split this, 2022/23, tax year. If your plans don't work out and you return during 2023/24, then you will have to sort out the amounts owing then. You really need to commit to being out the full 2023/24 tax year to ensure overseas income free of UK tax (subject to various other requirements relating to maximum days in the UK during that time).

Also mentioned further down the link is NI contributions. If it turns out you stay overseas longer than anticipated (my plan was 2 years) then you can make voluntary contributions to maximise your future UK state pension.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#522318

Postby flyer61 » August 14th, 2022, 12:14 pm

evilbungle

My two pennies worth from my experience in the 'sandpit(s)'

You are going to meet a lot of people when you get out there who have just recently become experts in all financial matters. A high salary does not equate to financial acumen. Currency trading 'funds', Crypto 'funds', Teak forest Plantations in Columbia, ostrich farming in NZ the list of fabulous schemes with stupendous returns is mind boggling and they are waiting for fresh blood all the time. You have been warned!

Why make life so complicated? If you have a house in the UK pay it off. If you want to be cautious (yes I know inflation is rampant) put the first 50K in Premium bonds. I wouldn't leave to much money in Saudi and if you ever find yourself taking money out of the UK then you are most definitely doing it wrong.

Get some time under your belt out there before doing anything that has risk attached to it. That includes shares etc Start saving from Day 1 - 12months will come and go in a flash, you may have had a nice holiday and a fab Mustang car but that is not why you are there.

Enjoy, I made the most of my 5 years in the MidEast and would do it again.

I could go on..... Good luck!

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#522322

Postby GrahamPlatt » August 14th, 2022, 12:36 pm

Many years ago an ex girlfriend of mine went to work in Saudi with her new bf. They put all their money into an IOM bank. Which then went bust.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#522339

Postby BullDog » August 14th, 2022, 1:25 pm

Good advice to be very wary of acquaintances suggesting you contact their favourite financial wizard advisor who's making them a fortune. Also you will find that the sharks out there have a habit of finding you even when you don't want to be found and pestered to have them make investments for you. LinkedIn is a gift to them as are other social media outlets. Also acquaintances you make both socially and in business circles will share your contact details with their favourite bunch of wizard financial advisors. I have been tracked round the globe by them. Just be aware everyone wants a slice of your money.

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Re: Investing from Saudi Arabia

#522481

Postby torata » August 15th, 2022, 12:20 am

flyer61 wrote:Why make life so complicated? If you have a house in the UK pay it off. If you want to be cautious (yes I know inflation is rampant) put the first 50K in Premium bonds. I wouldn't leave to much money in Saudi and if you ever find yourself taking money out of the UK then you are most definitely doing it wrong.


Probably sound advice, but remember you'll need to set something like this up before you leave the UK, so open up a PB account with 100 quid in it. It's become much harder to open accounts etc, once you're no longer tax resident in the UK.

torata


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