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Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

Any other investment discussions eg. peer to peer lending
stevensfo
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Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492414

Postby stevensfo » April 7th, 2022, 10:11 am

I know that these bonds were occasionally mentioned on the Fixed Investor forum, and I've subscribed to a few in the past.

However, this one is a bit strange:

https://www.triodoscrowdfunding.co.uk/

Usually, bonds similar to the Empower Community Foundation are very popular and are all gone well within the deadline, but this one seems to be taking its time.

I assume for a number of reasons:

-- 4.25% is not that attractive with current inflation rates, and although it's linked to RPI, it won't start for another year.

-- 16 years is....well, a long time!

-- There are other renewable power alternatives out there offering better yields and growth.

Anything I've missed?

Steve

PS That Temple Cycles bond was gone within days!

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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492494

Postby GoSeigen » April 7th, 2022, 1:43 pm

stevensfo wrote:Anything I've missed?


Yes this is not a bond as referred to in the title of the forum, which refers to listed, transferrable debt securities traded on an exchange. The OP is therefore most likely OT for this board. I suggest "Other Investing".


GS

stevensfo
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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492507

Postby stevensfo » April 7th, 2022, 2:26 pm

GoSeigen wrote:
stevensfo wrote:Anything I've missed?


Yes this is not a bond as referred to in the title of the forum, which refers to listed, transferrable debt securities traded on an exchange. The OP is therefore most likely OT for this board. I suggest "Other Investing".


GS


The title of this forum is:

Gilts and Bonds
Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares



I understand and can appreciate the concern over certain mini-bonds that had such a bad press - quite rightly. But I hope we are all grown-ups at TLF and know the difference, apart from being a friendly crowd and so warning each other about these things. If you look at the the prospectuses supplied on the Triodos site, they go to great lengths to explain the dangers. Furthermore, these are bonds that were discussed, with no problems whatsoever, on the Fixed Investor website, which was kindly offered a home here. That is why I think that this board is appropriate.

No, they are not tradeable, but if you take the time to peruse past offerings and read more about the Dutch Triodos bank, I think you will be impressed by their code of practice and the benefits to the community of the bonds offered.

https://www.triodoscrowdfunding.co.uk/investments


Steve

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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492513

Postby GoSeigen » April 7th, 2022, 2:42 pm

stevensfo wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:
stevensfo wrote:Anything I've missed?


Yes this is not a bond as referred to in the title of the forum, which refers to listed, transferrable debt securities traded on an exchange. The OP is therefore most likely OT for this board. I suggest "Other Investing".


GS


The title of this forum is:

Gilts and Bonds
Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares



I understand and can appreciate the concern over certain mini-bonds that had such a bad press - quite rightly. But I hope we are all grown-ups at TLF and know the difference, apart from being a friendly crowd and so warning each other about these things. If you look at the the prospectuses supplied on the Triodos site, they go to great lengths to explain the dangers. Furthermore, these are bonds that were discussed, with no problems whatsoever, on the Fixed Investor website, which was kindly offered a home here. That is why I think that this board is appropriate.

No, they are not tradeable, but if you take the time to peruse past offerings and read more about the Dutch Triodos bank, I think you will be impressed by their code of practice and the benefits to the community of the bonds offered.

https://www.triodoscrowdfunding.co.uk/investments

Steve


No this board is about listed bonds. We are concerned with bond valuation and bonds as securities carrying less risk and senior claim to repayment than equities, not borderline scams. So please, take these somewhere else and let us discuss proper bonds here, not dodgy illiquid stuff masquerading under the same name. What happens on other websites is really of no relevance.

Thank you.

GS

[EDIT: The offer documents have not been made public so we can't read them even if we want to. It's a joke.]

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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492520

Postby malakoffee » April 7th, 2022, 3:05 pm

I have taken a punt on those Empower "Bonds".

Rather wary of the 4.25% initial return ( with RPI uplift ).
> 50% chance I'll be dead within 16 years.

Due diligence by Triodos is a significant reassurance ( to me ).
The money would otherwise be sitting in a Savings Account @ < 1% AER

As this "Bond" ownership is replacing the initial finance on an already operational Solar Farm ( or two ) I guess that the big risk has been taken and the profit bagged by the initial financiers. I can live with that.
We now have a modest return from a relatively "safe" investment.
I'd rather the money was invested in a Renewable Energy Project with some Local Community Benefit. . . . rather than funding some more fossil-fuel madness.

PS. If conventional economics paid an appropriate price for environmental damage we would all be choosing the least damaging options ( as the £cheapest ). Alas, it doesn't and most people will continue to focus exclusively on £ cost . . . . There may be trouble ahead . . . .

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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492554

Postby stevensfo » April 7th, 2022, 4:23 pm

malakoffee wrote:I have taken a punt on those Empower "Bonds".

Rather wary of the 4.25% initial return ( with RPI uplift ).
> 50% chance I'll be dead within 16 years.

Due diligence by Triodos is a significant reassurance ( to me ).
The money would otherwise be sitting in a Savings Account @ < 1% AER

As this "Bond" ownership is replacing the initial finance on an already operational Solar Farm ( or two ) I guess that the big risk has been taken and the profit bagged by the initial financiers. I can live with that.
We now have a modest return from a relatively "safe" investment.
I'd rather the money was invested in a Renewable Energy Project with some Local Community Benefit. . . . rather than funding some more fossil-fuel madness.

PS. If conventional economics paid an appropriate price for environmental damage we would all be choosing the least damaging options ( as the £cheapest ). Alas, it doesn't and most people will continue to focus exclusively on £ cost . . . . There may be trouble ahead . . . .


Thanks for the comments. Nice to read a reply that doesn't remind me of primary school kids and Daily Mail editorials! ;) The main reason I posted was the smallish coupon and long term of the bond. This surprised me, since most of these bonds are shorter, and to be honest, the linking to RPI doesn't attract me so much. By the time, they start distributing, the RPI will probably be lower anyway, so maybe best to stick to alternatives.

Most of the bonds offered have great intentions, but of course, losing money does neither them nor us any good.

Due diligence is a must, but although Triodos may have a good reputation, it's always pays to dig deeper. Sorry, but I never trust any banks these days. So easy to put any &^%!!! on your website. Crikey, remember all those awful bank adverts on TV? 8-)

Steve

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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492681

Postby formoverfunction » April 8th, 2022, 6:56 am

I've bought a small amount of the above issue and I have on lots of Triodos issues. So far none have defaulted. I also invest in the Energise Africa, Ethex and less often Abundance issues.
I find them good for a sweeper, by that I mean I put any end of month cash into them once I've made an equity top up, done my monthly equity saving plans and looked through any New Issues.
I've been an the other end of Triodos DD. Having raised £10's million for private enterprises and millions with a not-for-profit. I found then professional and capable.
So, I guess you could say I'm happy to take 6% on £100 all day when I can do it across enough of them. Typically 4 per month.
There's of course WiseAlpha as well, as we are on other Investing.
I've always blended "alternatives" into my investment strategy, I think they have merit and it's given me a very broad view, and insight, to ESG style investing.

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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492755

Postby kindle » April 8th, 2022, 11:35 am

Hi

I have invested in a few renewables projects via Triodos, and I noticed the same, that Empower was taking longer than usual. Although I don't have any suggestions why that might be.

For me the fact that these projects have a 14 or 16 year contract to supply at a minimum price makes them attractive to me. I also usually stick only to the refinancings, as then I am comfortable the project is built and working.

The bike shop sold very quickly as did the wholefood shop a couple of years ago. But for me these are too risky, there is no claim over the assets, whereas in Bristol Wood Workshop (which I also have) the investors have a charge over the freehold of the building.

I think for some people they feel they are supporting something worthwhile, so if the project did default they would still feel they had only lost financially.

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Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492789

Postby stevensfo » April 8th, 2022, 1:18 pm

kindle wrote:Hi

I have invested in a few renewables projects via Triodos, and I noticed the same, that Empower was taking longer than usual. Although I don't have any suggestions why that might be.

For me the fact that these projects have a 14 or 16 year contract to supply at a minimum price makes them attractive to me. I also usually stick only to the refinancings, as then I am comfortable the project is built and working.

The bike shop sold very quickly as did the wholefood shop a couple of years ago. But for me these are too risky, there is no claim over the assets, whereas in Bristol Wood Workshop (which I also have) the investors have a charge over the freehold of the building.

I think for some people they feel they are supporting something worthwhile, so if the project did default they would still feel they had only lost financially.



Agree totally about the Bike shop!

Re. support, I think that the recent bond 'Trees for Life' gave the option of taking only half or none of the coupon, so helping even more. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the others, particularly those involving kids, did this as well.

Steve


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