Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Howard,bruncher,SalvorHardin,tea42,yyuryyub, for Donating to support the site

Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

Any other investment discussions eg. peer to peer lending
stevensfo
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2238
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 8:43 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 834 times

Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492414

Postby stevensfo » April 7th, 2022, 10:11 am

I know that these bonds were occasionally mentioned on the Fixed Investor forum, and I've subscribed to a few in the past.

However, this one is a bit strange:

https://www.triodoscrowdfunding.co.uk/

Usually, bonds similar to the Empower Community Foundation are very popular and are all gone well within the deadline, but this one seems to be taking its time.

I assume for a number of reasons:

-- 4.25% is not that attractive with current inflation rates, and although it's linked to RPI, it won't start for another year.

-- 16 years is....well, a long time!

-- There are other renewable power alternatives out there offering better yields and growth.

Anything I've missed?

Steve

PS That Temple Cycles bond was gone within days!

GoSeigen
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:14 pm
Has thanked: 1176 times
Been thanked: 1108 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492494

Postby GoSeigen » April 7th, 2022, 1:43 pm

stevensfo wrote:Anything I've missed?


Yes this is not a bond as referred to in the title of the forum, which refers to listed, transferrable debt securities traded on an exchange. The OP is therefore most likely OT for this board. I suggest "Other Investing".


GS

stevensfo
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2238
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 8:43 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 834 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492507

Postby stevensfo » April 7th, 2022, 2:26 pm

GoSeigen wrote:
stevensfo wrote:Anything I've missed?


Yes this is not a bond as referred to in the title of the forum, which refers to listed, transferrable debt securities traded on an exchange. The OP is therefore most likely OT for this board. I suggest "Other Investing".


GS


The title of this forum is:

Gilts and Bonds
Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares



I understand and can appreciate the concern over certain mini-bonds that had such a bad press - quite rightly. But I hope we are all grown-ups at TLF and know the difference, apart from being a friendly crowd and so warning each other about these things. If you look at the the prospectuses supplied on the Triodos site, they go to great lengths to explain the dangers. Furthermore, these are bonds that were discussed, with no problems whatsoever, on the Fixed Investor website, which was kindly offered a home here. That is why I think that this board is appropriate.

No, they are not tradeable, but if you take the time to peruse past offerings and read more about the Dutch Triodos bank, I think you will be impressed by their code of practice and the benefits to the community of the bonds offered.

https://www.triodoscrowdfunding.co.uk/investments


Steve

GoSeigen
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:14 pm
Has thanked: 1176 times
Been thanked: 1108 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492513

Postby GoSeigen » April 7th, 2022, 2:42 pm

stevensfo wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:
stevensfo wrote:Anything I've missed?


Yes this is not a bond as referred to in the title of the forum, which refers to listed, transferrable debt securities traded on an exchange. The OP is therefore most likely OT for this board. I suggest "Other Investing".


GS


The title of this forum is:

Gilts and Bonds
Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares



I understand and can appreciate the concern over certain mini-bonds that had such a bad press - quite rightly. But I hope we are all grown-ups at TLF and know the difference, apart from being a friendly crowd and so warning each other about these things. If you look at the the prospectuses supplied on the Triodos site, they go to great lengths to explain the dangers. Furthermore, these are bonds that were discussed, with no problems whatsoever, on the Fixed Investor website, which was kindly offered a home here. That is why I think that this board is appropriate.

No, they are not tradeable, but if you take the time to peruse past offerings and read more about the Dutch Triodos bank, I think you will be impressed by their code of practice and the benefits to the community of the bonds offered.

https://www.triodoscrowdfunding.co.uk/investments

Steve


No this board is about listed bonds. We are concerned with bond valuation and bonds as securities carrying less risk and senior claim to repayment than equities, not borderline scams. So please, take these somewhere else and let us discuss proper bonds here, not dodgy illiquid stuff masquerading under the same name. What happens on other websites is really of no relevance.

Thank you.

GS

[EDIT: The offer documents have not been made public so we can't read them even if we want to. It's a joke.]

malakoffee
Lemon Pip
Posts: 96
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492520

Postby malakoffee » April 7th, 2022, 3:05 pm

I have taken a punt on those Empower "Bonds".

Rather wary of the 4.25% initial return ( with RPI uplift ).
> 50% chance I'll be dead within 16 years.

Due diligence by Triodos is a significant reassurance ( to me ).
The money would otherwise be sitting in a Savings Account @ < 1% AER

As this "Bond" ownership is replacing the initial finance on an already operational Solar Farm ( or two ) I guess that the big risk has been taken and the profit bagged by the initial financiers. I can live with that.
We now have a modest return from a relatively "safe" investment.
I'd rather the money was invested in a Renewable Energy Project with some Local Community Benefit. . . . rather than funding some more fossil-fuel madness.

PS. If conventional economics paid an appropriate price for environmental damage we would all be choosing the least damaging options ( as the £cheapest ). Alas, it doesn't and most people will continue to focus exclusively on £ cost . . . . There may be trouble ahead . . . .

stevensfo
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2238
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 8:43 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 834 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492554

Postby stevensfo » April 7th, 2022, 4:23 pm

malakoffee wrote:I have taken a punt on those Empower "Bonds".

Rather wary of the 4.25% initial return ( with RPI uplift ).
> 50% chance I'll be dead within 16 years.

Due diligence by Triodos is a significant reassurance ( to me ).
The money would otherwise be sitting in a Savings Account @ < 1% AER

As this "Bond" ownership is replacing the initial finance on an already operational Solar Farm ( or two ) I guess that the big risk has been taken and the profit bagged by the initial financiers. I can live with that.
We now have a modest return from a relatively "safe" investment.
I'd rather the money was invested in a Renewable Energy Project with some Local Community Benefit. . . . rather than funding some more fossil-fuel madness.

PS. If conventional economics paid an appropriate price for environmental damage we would all be choosing the least damaging options ( as the £cheapest ). Alas, it doesn't and most people will continue to focus exclusively on £ cost . . . . There may be trouble ahead . . . .


Thanks for the comments. Nice to read a reply that doesn't remind me of primary school kids and Daily Mail editorials! ;) The main reason I posted was the smallish coupon and long term of the bond. This surprised me, since most of these bonds are shorter, and to be honest, the linking to RPI doesn't attract me so much. By the time, they start distributing, the RPI will probably be lower anyway, so maybe best to stick to alternatives.

Most of the bonds offered have great intentions, but of course, losing money does neither them nor us any good.

Due diligence is a must, but although Triodos may have a good reputation, it's always pays to dig deeper. Sorry, but I never trust any banks these days. So easy to put any &^%!!! on your website. Crikey, remember all those awful bank adverts on TV? 8-)

Steve

formoverfunction
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 169
Joined: June 12th, 2018, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492681

Postby formoverfunction » April 8th, 2022, 6:56 am

I've bought a small amount of the above issue and I have on lots of Triodos issues. So far none have defaulted. I also invest in the Energise Africa, Ethex and less often Abundance issues.
I find them good for a sweeper, by that I mean I put any end of month cash into them once I've made an equity top up, done my monthly equity saving plans and looked through any New Issues.
I've been an the other end of Triodos DD. Having raised £10's million for private enterprises and millions with a not-for-profit. I found then professional and capable.
So, I guess you could say I'm happy to take 6% on £100 all day when I can do it across enough of them. Typically 4 per month.
There's of course WiseAlpha as well, as we are on other Investing.
I've always blended "alternatives" into my investment strategy, I think they have merit and it's given me a very broad view, and insight, to ESG style investing.

kindle
Posts: 2
Joined: April 3rd, 2022, 3:30 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492755

Postby kindle » April 8th, 2022, 11:35 am

Hi

I have invested in a few renewables projects via Triodos, and I noticed the same, that Empower was taking longer than usual. Although I don't have any suggestions why that might be.

For me the fact that these projects have a 14 or 16 year contract to supply at a minimum price makes them attractive to me. I also usually stick only to the refinancings, as then I am comfortable the project is built and working.

The bike shop sold very quickly as did the wholefood shop a couple of years ago. But for me these are too risky, there is no claim over the assets, whereas in Bristol Wood Workshop (which I also have) the investors have a charge over the freehold of the building.

I think for some people they feel they are supporting something worthwhile, so if the project did default they would still feel they had only lost financially.

stevensfo
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2238
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 8:43 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 834 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#492789

Postby stevensfo » April 8th, 2022, 1:18 pm

kindle wrote:Hi

I have invested in a few renewables projects via Triodos, and I noticed the same, that Empower was taking longer than usual. Although I don't have any suggestions why that might be.

For me the fact that these projects have a 14 or 16 year contract to supply at a minimum price makes them attractive to me. I also usually stick only to the refinancings, as then I am comfortable the project is built and working.

The bike shop sold very quickly as did the wholefood shop a couple of years ago. But for me these are too risky, there is no claim over the assets, whereas in Bristol Wood Workshop (which I also have) the investors have a charge over the freehold of the building.

I think for some people they feel they are supporting something worthwhile, so if the project did default they would still feel they had only lost financially.



Agree totally about the Bike shop!

Re. support, I think that the recent bond 'Trees for Life' gave the option of taking only half or none of the coupon, so helping even more. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the others, particularly those involving kids, did this as well.

Steve

malakoffee
Lemon Pip
Posts: 96
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#509220

Postby malakoffee » June 24th, 2022, 11:43 am

Another odd one happening with the Crowdfunding Bonds.

The Church Minshall Hydro Scheme has (nearly) reached it's full funding in a matter of days ( Target £560,000 )

Whereas the Empower Community Foundation - solar farms * 2 - is only just limping past its minimum half-way point after several weeks ( Target £4.7 Million )

The rewards seem pretty much equivalent 4.25% + RPI indexing . . . . over 16 years . . . . .

If anything the Hydro scheme, with its single generating unit might be more likely to have a problem meeting its target. ??

Maybe I missed something ?

formoverfunction
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 169
Joined: June 12th, 2018, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#509467

Postby formoverfunction » June 25th, 2022, 8:11 am

It will be interesting seeing what price they pitch the equity of Thrive Energy at....there's the Director's estimation of NAV and then there's price from the matched bargains/Monthly auction. If memory serves me well that's a 20p difference.
If it's the matched bargain price, well, it would make a difference seeing a green impact vehicle trading at a discount to NAV.

malakoffee
Lemon Pip
Posts: 96
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#509552

Postby malakoffee » June 25th, 2022, 2:08 pm

The Hydro has hit full funding already !

I'm interested in the Thrive Energy equity offer - when it is released.

There is some speculation about changes to the the wholesale electricity purchasing process which might have some non-trivial effect on the (kWh) sale price from renewable generators. I'm not sure whether this will be good or bad for investors in renewable generation.

malakoffee
Lemon Pip
Posts: 96
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#510020

Postby malakoffee » June 27th, 2022, 2:46 pm

formoverfunction wrote:It will be interesting seeing what price they pitch the equity of Thrive Energy at....there's the Director's estimation of NAV and then there's price from the matched bargains/Monthly auction. If memory serves me well that's a 20p difference.
If it's the matched bargain price, well, it would make a difference seeing a green impact vehicle trading at a discount to NAV.


Ah yes, I see what you mean now . . . . . auction price (historic, recent) 20p lower, per share, than the new issue offer price . . . . 235p

The Auction Stamp Duty charge is 0.5%, on total cost, thus still cheaper than new issue . . . I think . . .

RedPete
Posts: 2
Joined: December 20th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#516063

Postby RedPete » July 20th, 2022, 6:05 pm

Received an message today from Triodos saying that the Empower offer has been extended to end Sept because they have only a small amount towards refinancing the second solar park. I guess the 16 yr bond period with the 4.25% return has put people off. Looks less attractive when YBS have just launched a one-year 5% regular saver.

stevensfo
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2238
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 8:43 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 834 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#517277

Postby stevensfo » July 26th, 2022, 10:17 am

RedPete wrote:Received an message today from Triodos saying that the Empower offer has been extended to end Sept because they have only a small amount towards refinancing the second solar park. I guess the 16 yr bond period with the 4.25% return has put people off. Looks less attractive when YBS have just launched a one-year 5% regular saver.


As usual with these regular saver things, the YBS 5% APR is only for one year. £500 max per month. So I assume that even if you pay in the max each month, you won't receive 5% on the full £6000.

Triodos is currently offering a London Early Years Foundation bond at 5% for 7 years. Founded in 1903, the charity seems to be doing well. As with many of their bonds, you have the option of taking less than 5% and helping the kiddies more. Not sure how to calculate it, but it's probably possible to do this and still get the same as the YBS saver.

Of course, we don't know what interest rates and inflation will be in one year.

Steve

PS I wonder if the Foundation bond uses the kiddies as security? If they default, make sure you have your spare room ready! ;)

kempiejon
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2399
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 10:30 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 742 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#517279

Postby kempiejon » July 26th, 2022, 10:21 am

stevensfo wrote:
RedPete wrote:Received an message today from Triodos saying that the Empower offer has been extended to end Sept because they have only a

As usual with these regular saver things, the YBS 5% APR is only for one year. £500 max per month. So I assume that even if you pay in the max each month, you won't receive 5% on the full £6000.


If you invest a fixed amount each month then isn't that equivalent to half the interest on the whole amount. Your first month being in for the whole year, 2nd 11 months... and your last amount only one month.

RedPete
Posts: 2
Joined: December 20th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: Triodos Bank Crowdfunding bonds?

#517874

Postby RedPete » July 28th, 2022, 11:54 am

kempiejon wrote:
stevensfo wrote:
RedPete wrote:Received an message today from Triodos saying that the Empower offer has been extended to end Sept because they have only a

As usual with these regular saver things, the YBS 5% APR is only for one year. £500 max per month. So I assume that even if you pay in the max each month, you won't receive 5% on the full £6000.


If you invest a fixed amount each month then isn't that equivalent to half the interest on the whole amount. Your first month being in for the whole year, 2nd 11 months... and your last amount only one month.


You are earning 5% APR on every penny that you put into the regular saver. If you compare £6000 today into Empower vs £6000 drip fed over the next 12 months then you could (arguably) have a point. But 1) I'm not investing anything like £6000 into a single Triodos opportunity, 2) I might only have £500 a month to put into savings or investments and 3) I might have feeder accounts into which I put the £6000 and from which I transfer £500 each month into YB (which would get me 3.6% guaranteed risk-free total return plus all capital returned over 12 mths).


Return to “Other Investing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests