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Stocks and shares ISA rules

Stocks and Shares ISA , Choosing funds for ISA's, risk factors for funds etc
Investment strategy discussions not dealt with elsewhere.
ben328
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Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276725

Postby ben328 » January 11th, 2020, 3:23 pm

I won't bore you with the reasons I want to do this, but am I right in thinking that if I withdraw 10k from one ISA, that doesn't stop me from investing 10k in a different ISA during the same tax year?

Thanks

swill453
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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276727

Postby swill453 » January 11th, 2020, 3:36 pm

ben328 wrote:I won't bore you with the reasons I want to do this, but am I right in thinking that if I withdraw 10k from one ISA, that doesn't stop me from investing 10k in a different ISA during the same tax year?

You can pay up to £20,000 into one stocks and shares ISA this tax year. Withdrawals don't affect this.

(The £20K is the total across all types of ISA)

Scott.

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276728

Postby mc2fool » January 11th, 2020, 3:38 pm

ben328 wrote:I won't bore you with the reasons I want to do this, but am I right in thinking that if I withdraw 10k from one ISA, that doesn't stop me from investing 10k in a different ISA during the same tax year?

Not in itself -- unless you put the first £10K into the ISA that year -- as what would stop you investing anything in a S&S ISA in any year is if you'd already invested anything in another S&S ISA in the same year. Or, of course, if you were to exceed the £20Kpa limit.

You do know, I take it, that withdrawing the £10K from the first ISA will cause it to lose its ISA status, and the £10K you put into the different ISA will be "new" ISA money, and will come out of your £20Kpa limit.

It is, however, possible to transfer the £10K to the other ISA, which maintains its ISA status and doesn't affect your limit for the year. (However, note that if the £10K is part of this year's subscription then you have to transfer all of it.)

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276876

Postby yorkshirelad1 » January 12th, 2020, 4:47 pm

mc2fool wrote:
ben328 wrote:I won't bore you with the reasons I want to do this, but am I right in thinking that if I withdraw 10k from one ISA, that doesn't stop me from investing 10k in a different ISA during the same tax year?

Not in itself -- unless you put the first £10K into the ISA that year -- as what would stop you investing anything in a S&S ISA in any year is if you'd already invested anything in another S&S ISA in the same year. Or, of course, if you were to exceed the £20Kpa limit.

You do know, I take it, that withdrawing the £10K from the first ISA will cause it to lose its ISA status, and the £10K you put into the different ISA will be "new" ISA money, and will come out of your £20Kpa limit.

It is, however, possible to transfer the £10K to the other ISA, which maintains its ISA status and doesn't affect your limit for the year. (However, note that if the £10K is part of this year's subscription then you have to transfer all of it.)


some companies won't allow partial transfers of ISA funds: check your provider.

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276877

Postby yorkshirelad1 » January 12th, 2020, 4:50 pm

ben328 wrote:I won't bore you with the reasons I want to do this, but am I right in thinking that if I withdraw 10k from one ISA, that doesn't stop me from investing 10k in a different ISA during the same tax year?

Thanks


Are you confusing with the flexible ISA that appeared a couple of years ago and not all ISA providers offer, where you can take some money out during the year, and then put it back (but it may have to be the same ISA).

https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/withdrawing-your-money

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276880

Postby mc2fool » January 12th, 2020, 5:00 pm

yorkshirelad1 wrote:some companies won't allow partial transfers of ISA funds: check your provider.

That's certainly true of some cash ISAs, but I've not heard of that of any stocks and shares ISAs, which is what's under discussion. Do you know of any example cases?

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276900

Postby genou » January 12th, 2020, 7:10 pm

mc2fool wrote:
yorkshirelad1 wrote:some companies won't allow partial transfers of ISA funds: check your provider.

That's certainly true of some cash ISAs, but I've not heard of that of any stocks and shares ISAs, which is what's under discussion. Do you know of any example cases?


Fidelity won't do a partial transfer: https://help.fidelity.co.uk/site/transf ... to-another

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276901

Postby mc2fool » January 12th, 2020, 7:17 pm

genou wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
yorkshirelad1 wrote:some companies won't allow partial transfers of ISA funds: check your provider.

That's certainly true of some cash ISAs, but I've not heard of that of any stocks and shares ISAs, which is what's under discussion. Do you know of any example cases?

Fidelity won't do a partial transfer: https://help.fidelity.co.uk/site/transf ... to-another

Meanies :!:

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#276991

Postby yorkshirelad1 » January 13th, 2020, 10:28 am

mc2fool wrote:
yorkshirelad1 wrote:some companies won't allow partial transfers of ISA funds: check your provider.

That's certainly true of some cash ISAs, but I've not heard of that of any stocks and shares ISAs, which is what's under discussion. Do you know of any example cases?


Apologies, Yes, you're right: I mis-read the distinction between cash and stocks & shares ISAs.

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#277348

Postby 548834 » January 14th, 2020, 1:05 pm

I'm a bit confused, I think I have a similar question as the original poster.

Is it possible split a S&S ISA that is with a single provider to be between two providers.

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#277349

Postby Dod101 » January 14th, 2020, 1:14 pm

548834 wrote:I'm a bit confused, I think I have a similar question as the original poster.

Is it possible split a S&S ISA that is with a single provider to be between two providers.


I think the answer is yes but of course it requires the co operation of the manager/provider of the single S & S ISA. I have just done this very thing with Interactive Investor and it went very smoothly. The context for me was that I had my main ISA with Alliance Trust Savings and a smaller one with II. When II took over ATS, my entire ISA holdings would have been with them and I could have that so I transferred nominated individual shares elsewhere with no problems and no costs because II will do the transfer without charge.

You can't of course split the new £20,000 subscription for the current yeast between two providers, at least not in the year of subscription.

Dod

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#277364

Postby 548834 » January 14th, 2020, 1:57 pm

Thank's dod
Context is basically eggs and baskets.

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#288239

Postby lyndhurst25 » March 3rd, 2020, 2:24 pm

I have a question: today I saw the RNS about one of the companies I follow -

"The Company was informed on 2 March 2020 that on the same day, Mr Michael Bell, Executive Chairman, transfered 45,614 ordinary shares of 10 pence each in the capital of the Company ("Ordinary Shares") from his personal holding to his ISA (the "Transfer"). The Transfer was at 134 pence per Ordinary Share."

That's over £61000 that he's just put into an ISA in one go. How is that possible with the £20000 annual limit?

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#288246

Postby GoSeigen » March 3rd, 2020, 2:39 pm

lyndhurst25 wrote:I have a question: today I saw the RNS about one of the companies I follow -

"The Company was informed on 2 March 2020 that on the same day, Mr Michael Bell, Executive Chairman, transfered 45,614 ordinary shares of 10 pence each in the capital of the Company ("Ordinary Shares") from his personal holding to his ISA (the "Transfer"). The Transfer was at 134 pence per Ordinary Share."

That's over £61000 that he's just put into an ISA in one go. How is that possible with the £20000 annual limit?


He didn't "transfer" them: he bought them inside the ISA, having sold outside.

GS

lyndhurst25
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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#288251

Postby lyndhurst25 » March 3rd, 2020, 2:56 pm

GoSeigen wrote:
lyndhurst25 wrote:I have a question: today I saw the RNS about one of the companies I follow -

"The Company was informed on 2 March 2020 that on the same day, Mr Michael Bell, Executive Chairman, transfered 45,614 ordinary shares of 10 pence each in the capital of the Company ("Ordinary Shares") from his personal holding to his ISA (the "Transfer"). The Transfer was at 134 pence per Ordinary Share."

That's over £61000 that he's just put into an ISA in one go. How is that possible with the £20000 annual limit?


He didn't "transfer" them: he bought them inside the ISA, having sold outside.

GS


I thought it might be something like that. So he sold 45614 shares and then bought exactly the same number back using funds already inside his ISA? If so then how was this done "at 134 pence per Ordinary Share": there's quite a large bid-offer spread (something like 10p) in shares if this company? Will some brokers/ISA providers do the "transfer" without actually selling and then re-buying the shares to achieve this?

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#288291

Postby GoSeigen » March 3rd, 2020, 7:13 pm

lyndhurst25 wrote:I thought it might be something like that. So he sold 45614 shares and then bought exactly the same number back using funds already inside his ISA? If so then how was this done "at 134 pence per Ordinary Share": there's quite a large bid-offer spread (something like 10p) in shares if this company? Will
some brokers/ISA providers do the "transfer" without actually selling and then re-buying the shares to achieve this?


Without knowing the company and pricing at the time of the trade it's hard to be specific. In general though, what you guessed is probably what he did. Since he (the natural person) was both buyer and seller he would most likely have asked the intermediary (his broker and/or the MM) to record the transaction at a particular price. Intermediaries will agree to this usually if the price stipulated lies within the quoted spread. Since there is no risk to the MM they typically take about £50 profit on the trade for their trouble.


GS

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Re: Stocks and shares ISA rules

#288297

Postby mc2fool » March 3rd, 2020, 7:33 pm

lyndhurst25 wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:
lyndhurst25 wrote:I have a question: today I saw the RNS about one of the companies I follow -

"The Company was informed on 2 March 2020 that on the same day, Mr Michael Bell, Executive Chairman, transfered 45,614 ordinary shares of 10 pence each in the capital of the Company ("Ordinary Shares") from his personal holding to his ISA (the "Transfer"). The Transfer was at 134 pence per Ordinary Share."

That's over £61000 that he's just put into an ISA in one go. How is that possible with the £20000 annual limit?

He didn't "transfer" them: he bought them inside the ISA, having sold outside.

GS

I thought it might be something like that. So he sold 45614 shares and then bought exactly the same number back using funds already inside his ISA? If so then how was this done "at 134 pence per Ordinary Share": there's quite a large bid-offer spread (something like 10p) in shares if this company? Will some brokers/ISA providers do the "transfer" without actually selling and then re-buying the shares to achieve this?

Normally, no, you cannot transfer shares into an ISA, you can only put in cash, meaning you have to sell and rebuy.

There is however an exception, which could well apply in this case, at least in part (up to £20K), and that's if the shares are from an employee share scheme. https://www.gov.uk/tax-employee-share-schemes/transferring-your-shares-to-an-isa


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