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Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

Stocks and Shares ISA , Choosing funds for ISA's, risk factors for funds etc
Investment strategy discussions not dealt with elsewhere.
innocuous
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Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#351530

Postby innocuous » October 29th, 2020, 6:43 am

Hi all,

I am looking to invest about £80k with a gone fishing type portfolio. Before I activate my plan I wanted to run it past you guys just to get your opinion and see if what I am doing makes sense or if you have other suggestions?

In terms of how I invest I am thinking of the following:
1. Vanguard S&S ISA account for myself - investing 20k max allowance
2. IG.com S&S account for my wife - 20k max allowance
3. Vanguard Junior ISA for my daughter - 6k
4. IG.com General Trading Account for my wife - for any remaining until next tax year
5. Potentially a SIPP account with either Vanguard or IG for me - not decided yet and depends on some tax advice I am waiting on with my Tax advisor.

How do you guys feel about IG.com?

In terms of the portfolio I am thinking about the following:
36% - Vanguard FTSE Developed World UCITS ETF
12% - Vanguard FTSE All-World High Dividend Yield UCITS ETF
12% - SPDR MSCI World Small Cap UCITS ETF
8% - Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF
4% - iShares MSCI EMU Small Cap UCITS ETF
4% - Invesco EQQQ NASDAQ-100 UCITS ETF
4% - SPDR S&P China ETF
8% - iShares Developed Markets Property Yield UCITS ETF - IDWP
5% - iShares Emerging Markets Local Government Bond UCITS ETF
7% - iShares $ TIPS UCITS ETF USD (Acc)

It has a bit of US and China bias in there as I think those markets will continue to be strong in the long term.

In terms of when I will invest. It will definitely be before the end of the year, but realistically I think the markets are taking a tumble right now owing to COVID so I think it might be worth investing in the next month to take advantage. I realise that isnt the normal approach on gone fishing, but if the opportunity is in front of me I am happy to avoid the down turn and hopefully invest as things come back to normal.

Thanks for your help,

Jon

innocuous
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#351533

Postby innocuous » October 29th, 2020, 7:03 am

Just in case it helps - I am 38yrs old so not looking to retire any time soon and expect to be working in one capacity or another as long as possible. Lastly for the junior ISA I will probably split evenly between the Vanguard Developed World fund and the Vanguard Emerging Markets fund.

xeny
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#351544

Postby xeny » October 29th, 2020, 7:31 am

With regard to you listing the Vanguard FTSE All-World High Dividend Yield UCITS ETF , it may be worth reading https://indeedably.com/shortcut/ where its performance is compared with an all world tracker.

innocuous
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#351612

Postby innocuous » October 29th, 2020, 10:10 am

xeny wrote:With regard to you listing the Vanguard FTSE All-World High Dividend Yield UCITS ETF , it may be worth reading https://indeedably.com/shortcut/ where its performance is compared with an all world tracker.


Just the sort of advice I am looking for - Thanks! Will defo switch out to the regular all-world version of that fund as I dont need the dividend income so happy to take capital growth.

bluedonkey
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#351645

Postby bluedonkey » October 29th, 2020, 11:02 am

Given your long-term horizon, a small allocation to the likes of Fundsmith or Scottish Mortgage Trust could be appropriate.

Hariseldon58
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#355682

Postby Hariseldon58 » November 11th, 2020, 9:17 pm

For a ‘gone fishing’ portfolio don’t worry about thinking the market will go down before the end of the year. You don’t know, nor do I or anyone else for that matter.

We know since your post that markets have shot up....

I would think you have made your portfolio far more complicated than it need be, (I had 5x as many holdings when I had a portfolio 1/5 the size it is now..)

Vanguard All World could be your only holding if you were investing for a long period of time, the small holdings of Nasdaq or Smaller Companies will not make a significant difference in 25 years time. You can have an accumulation version that allows reinvestment of income at no charge, simple and cheap.

The problem with holding some of the current strong performers, Scottish Mortgage, Fundsmith a Nasdaq trackers that have done splendidly in recent years, may well possibly underperform in the future ... ( 30 years of investing experience has shown that outperformance is often cyclical to a market trend)

If I could pop back in a time machine to my younger self in the 1980’s I would have said invest on a regular basis with Foreign and Colonial Investment Trust and do nothing.The end result would have been similar and I would have saved thousands of hours !

(F&C is still a good product but VWRL is cheaper and simpler.)

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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#355688

Postby Walkeia » November 11th, 2020, 10:05 pm

Hariseldon58 nails it in my view. Want a Gone Fishing portfolio for the very long term - buy an all world tracker over time and save yourself the man hours and admin of your proposal above (unless it is a passion and you actually enjoy the process of investing as many do on these boards). An alternative would be a life-strategy of equivalent offering.

LooseCannon101
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#355963

Postby LooseCannon101 » November 12th, 2020, 6:34 pm

Hariseldon58 wrote:For a ‘gone fishing’ portfolio don’t worry about thinking the market will go down before the end of the year. You don’t know, nor do I or anyone else for that matter.

We know since your post that markets have shot up....

I would think you have made your portfolio far more complicated than it need be, (I had 5x as many holdings when I had a portfolio 1/5 the size it is now..)

Vanguard All World could be your only holding if you were investing for a long period of time, the small holdings of Nasdaq or Smaller Companies will not make a significant difference in 25 years time. You can have an accumulation version that allows reinvestment of income at no charge, simple and cheap.

The problem with holding some of the current strong performers, Scottish Mortgage, Fundsmith a Nasdaq trackers that have done splendidly in recent years, may well possibly underperform in the future ... ( 30 years of investing experience has shown that outperformance is often cyclical to a market trend)

If I could pop back in a time machine to my younger self in the 1980’s I would have said invest on a regular basis with Foreign and Colonial Investment Trust and do nothing.The end result would have been similar and I would have saved thousands of hours !

(F&C is still a good product but VWRL is cheaper and simpler.)


I agree with the above post wholeheartedly. Keeping things simple with an initial 90% in a highly-diversified global equity investment trust e.g. F&C (FCIT) and 10% allocation to cash, re-investing dividends and holding forever, is all one needs to do. Easier said than done!

BMO Asset Management (FCIT's manager) have some cheap savings plans e.g. £72 per annum for an ISA, and also have a junior ISA.

FCIT is my only holding, with an average total return of about 8% per annum over 20 years - doubling every 9 years. Unexpected market moves are normal, with the only rational course being to save monthly, re-invest dividends, and as you say 'Go Fishing'.

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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#453981

Postby gamwah » October 28th, 2021, 8:31 pm

Hi,

I am also at looking at implementing the gone fishin style portfolio, I have 50k to spread potentially and just want to leave and re balance once a year!

Here is what he recommends as a spread

• 15% U.S. Stocks
• 15% U.S. Small Cap Stocks
• 10% European Stocks
• 10% Pacific Stocks
• 10% Emerging Markets Stocks
• 10% Short-Term Investment-Grade Bonds
• 10% High-Yield Corporate Bonds
• 10% TIPS (Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities)
• 5% REITs
• 5% Precious Metals

Trying to work the above into a UK model, you can use spreadbetting to gain exposure on IG.com to gain entry to a few of the vanguard funds mentioned in the book, the rest i will look to add in an ISA. How did you get on with what you posted did you implement it in the end?

Cheers

Hariseldon58
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#454625

Postby Hariseldon58 » October 31st, 2021, 3:44 pm

@gamwah

You could implement this portfolio as is, with ETFs or OEICs, in the UK. Ensure your UK broker does not charge an ad valorous fee for holding OEICs.

I have added the ticker for mainly Vanguard ETFs plus some iShares and State Street products. I have done these from memory, there are countless other possibilities….

• 15% U.S. Stocks VUSA
• 15% U.S. Small Cap Stocks SPY4 & ISP6
• 10% European Stocks VEUR
• 10% Pacific Stocks VJPN & VAPX
• 10% Emerging Markets Stocks VFEM
• 10% Short-Term Investment-Grade Bonds IS15
• 10% High-Yield Corporate Bonds SHYU
• 10% TIPS (Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities) ITPS
• 5% REITs IWDP
• 5% Precious Metals SGLN

It would work ok, but a Global All World tracker would be pretty good on its own for the equity, you need to add how long your away on your fishing trip for…….

The first 5 will drive returns over the years, the second 5 will lessen volatility, rebalancing sometimes wins, but if your outlook was for 10 to 20 years, then I’d stick with the first five and forget the second half.

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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#474553

Postby gamwah » January 19th, 2022, 7:30 pm

Thanks apologies for not reading sooner!

Held off in the end as nervous about a crash, need to do something soon though as inflation will wipe out my cash!

Will hold for 15-20 years to ideally and look to implement in march of all holds well as that tends to be when the markets dive a little.

Cheera

absolutezero
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#474565

Postby absolutezero » January 19th, 2022, 8:35 pm

gamwah wrote:Held off in the end as nervous about a crash

That never came...
You can't predict the future.

gamwah wrote: need to do something soon though as inflation will wipe out my cash!

Guaranteed circa 6% loss this year on cash in the bank VS long term growth of 8% on average in the stock market (S&P 500)?
For me, it's a no brainer.

Dip a toe in*. See how you feel.
If you don't like it, don't do it again and take your guaranteed 6% loss.

*Not financial advice. Shares can go down as well as up. Your home may be at risk if you do not keep up repayments on a mortgage or other loan secured on it. Terms and conditions apply.

Hariseldon58
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Re: Gone Fishing - What would you do differently

#474591

Postby Hariseldon58 » January 19th, 2022, 9:59 pm

gamwah wrote:Thanks apologies for not reading sooner!

Held off in the end as nervous about a crash, need to do something soon though as inflation will wipe out my cash!

Will hold for 15-20 years to ideally and look to implement in march of all holds well as that tends to be when the markets dive a little.

Cheera


Cash is losing real value but I can understand the feeling that now is never the right time to invest.

One of the most comfortable ways to move into or out of an investment position is to do so over a period of time, drip feed your investment.

A 15 or 20 year timeline allows for a pretty high proportion of equities and will almost certainly work out. Turn the clock back 15 or 20 years, 2002 and 2007, in the first, the market had fallen heavily over the preceding 2 years and in the latter it was about to fall for 2 years. The S&P500 was available in both years at over 1000 and under 1500, its now around 4,500 it worked out fine, despite falling as low as 676 and you gained a lot of dividends along the way.


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