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Assess a life fund?

Stocks and Shares ISA , Choosing funds for ISA's, risk factors for funds etc
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yorkshirelad1
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Assess a life fund?

#462791

Postby yorkshirelad1 » December 3rd, 2021, 1:55 am

Can anyone help with how to get information (comparative data, performance figures, ratings etc) on an insurance / life fund.

I have a (Norwhich Union , now Aviva) life insurance policy taken out 40 years ago, and receives annual premiums. Recently, more information has come available about the policy. It seems the underlying investment fund is:

Aviva MF Mixed Investment 40-85% Shares NU Life Fund
ISIN GB0006497266

The only source (by Googling for the ISIN) I can find is ft.com (below)

https://markets.ft.com/data/funds/tearsheet/summary?s=GB0006497266:GBP

I’d be happier if I had a few more sites and information to refer to before making further decisions about the rights and wrongs of the fund, and deciding whether to move or not . I am going to talk to Aviva to see what my options are for the underlying fund.

I suspect when the policy was taken out 40 years ago, there was just a default life fund for that type of policy, and no-one looked any further, but I think I should probably kick the tyres on the underlying fund now and see if it’s fit for purpose.

TIA

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462795

Postby Dod101 » December 3rd, 2021, 7:24 am

yorkshirelad1 wrote:Can anyone help with how to get information (comparative data, performance figures, ratings etc) on an insurance / life fund.

I have a (Norwhich Union , now Aviva) life insurance policy taken out 40 years ago, and receives annual premiums. Recently, more information has come available about the policy. It seems the underlying investment fund is:

Aviva MF Mixed Investment 40-85% Shares NU Life Fund
ISIN GB0006497266

The only source (by Googling for the ISIN) I can find is ft.com (below)

https://markets.ft.com/data/funds/tearsheet/summary?s=GB0006497266:GBP

I’d be happier if I had a few more sites and information to refer to before making further decisions about the rights and wrongs of the fund, and deciding whether to move or not . I am going to talk to Aviva to see what my options are for the underlying fund.

I suspect when the policy was taken out 40 years ago, there was just a default life fund for that type of policy, and no-one looked any further, but I think I should probably kick the tyres on the underlying fund now and see if it’s fit for purpose.

TIA


After 40 years you ought to be able to get some sense of how it has done. On the whole I would not have thought that it would have done brilliantly but probably reasonably well over such a long period. That is of course no help to anyone. Do you get an income from it? The summary tells us that the maximum charge is .5% but of course that will be for the fund itself. The underlying funds will have their own charges so overall this will not be cheap. Do you need it. Did you just subscribe to it as a general savings vehicle? Is there any point in retaining it? Presumably you can cash it? If so on what terms?

I guess that talking to Aviva is really your only option.

Dod

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462804

Postby mc2fool » December 3rd, 2021, 9:01 am


yorkshirelad1
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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462814

Postby yorkshirelad1 » December 3rd, 2021, 9:25 am




Thank you, that's perfect, more info that I could ever have wished for. Don't know why I couldn't find those reference on trustnet and morningstar for myself : -) doh!

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462816

Postby yorkshirelad1 » December 3rd, 2021, 9:27 am

Dod101 wrote:
yorkshirelad1 wrote:Can anyone help with how to get information (comparative data, performance figures, ratings etc) on an insurance / life fund.

I have a (Norwhich Union , now Aviva) life insurance policy taken out 40 years ago, and receives annual premiums. Recently, more information has come available about the policy. It seems the underlying investment fund is:

Aviva MF Mixed Investment 40-85% Shares NU Life Fund
ISIN GB0006497266

The only source (by Googling for the ISIN) I can find is ft.com (below)

https://markets.ft.com/data/funds/tearsheet/summary?s=GB0006497266:GBP

I’d be happier if I had a few more sites and information to refer to before making further decisions about the rights and wrongs of the fund, and deciding whether to move or not . I am going to talk to Aviva to see what my options are for the underlying fund.

I suspect when the policy was taken out 40 years ago, there was just a default life fund for that type of policy, and no-one looked any further, but I think I should probably kick the tyres on the underlying fund now and see if it’s fit for purpose.

TIA


After 40 years you ought to be able to get some sense of how it has done. On the whole I would not have thought that it would have done brilliantly but probably reasonably well over such a long period. That is of course no help to anyone. Do you get an income from it? The summary tells us that the maximum charge is .5% but of course that will be for the fund itself. The underlying funds will have their own charges so overall this will not be cheap. Do you need it. Did you just subscribe to it as a general savings vehicle? Is there any point in retaining it? Presumably you can cash it? If so on what terms?

I guess that talking to Aviva is really your only option.

Dod


Thank you.
The fund is inside a life insurance policy so my options are probebly lilmited, but getting info before thinking harder and talking to the insurance co aiviva before making further decisions.

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462829

Postby tjh290633 » December 3rd, 2021, 10:33 am

You can work out how the policy has done if you do a cash flow, provided that you know the current valuation.

Your net premiums are the input and the current valuation is the output. I have done all those which I held, most having tax relief on the premiums, which covered the cost of the insurance part and a bit more. This shows how those policies fared:

Start        Finish       Years   IRR      Mean  
04/01/1958 04/01/1993 35 11.95%
04/01/1963 04/01/1992 29 13.68%
04/01/1959 04/01/1993 34 11.73%
04/01/1983 04/01/1997 14 9.09%
04/01/1975 04/01/1996 21 13.00% 11.89%
04/01/1952 04/01/1966 14 3.67%

12/01/1968 12/01/1997 29 12.74%
12/02/1983 12/01/1992 9 10.75%
12/02/1982 12/02/1991 9 14.58% 12.69%
12/02/1987 12/01/1996 9 7.43% *

That marked* did not have LAPR. The top group were all endowments into the organisation's standard life fund, with annual bonuses declared and a terminal bonus, the second group were all unit-linked. The first of those was notable in that the distributions exceeded the premiums from 1982 onwards.

TJH

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462845

Postby Dod101 » December 3rd, 2021, 11:12 am

Inside a life policy. Not usually a good idea because you have charges on charges all the way. It is presumably an old Norwich Union fund by the look of the reference to it. Aviva will be doing quite nicely from it. On the face of it I would be looking to get a surrender value for the policy. Is it a whole of life and are you still paying into it?

Dod

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462979

Postby yorkshirelad1 » December 3rd, 2021, 8:21 pm

Dod101 wrote:Inside a life policy. Not usually a good idea because you have charges on charges all the way. It is presumably an old Norwich Union fund by the look of the reference to it. Aviva will be doing quite nicely from it. On the face of it I would be looking to get a surrender value for the policy. Is it a whole of life and are you still paying into it?

Dod


Indeed, an old Norwich Union whole of life policy, started in 1982. It had tax relief on premia up to 2015. Still paying annual premium. I reckon premiums total about £17k (add on tax relief when applicable makes around £19.5k) and it's currently worth around £80k. Not sparkling. But I am an Aviva shareholder (so getting some of that action) and did get some ("free") Norwich Union demutualisation shares in 1997 which went straight into my PEP/ISA for zero cost. Anyway, as you say, probably worth some serious thought.

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462986

Postby Dod101 » December 3rd, 2021, 8:51 pm

yorkshirelad1 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:Inside a life policy. Not usually a good idea because you have charges on charges all the way. It is presumably an old Norwich Union fund by the look of the reference to it. Aviva will be doing quite nicely from it. On the face of it I would be looking to get a surrender value for the policy. Is it a whole of life and are you still paying into it?

Dod


Indeed, an old Norwich Union whole of life policy, started in 1982. It had tax relief on premia up to 2015. Still paying annual premium. I reckon premiums total about £17k (add on tax relief when applicable makes around £19.5k) and it's currently worth around £80k. Not sparkling. But I am an Aviva shareholder (so getting some of that action) and did get some ("free") Norwich Union demutualisation shares in 1997 which went straight into my PEP/ISA for zero cost. Anyway, as you say, probably worth some serious thought.


Compensation for the NU demutualisation will have helped your return but that of course really should not come into the equation. Well I have made my views clear. You must now decide where to take the matter. Surprised that you got tax relief up until 2015. If that is so again that will have helped but these policies were never very good value and it is the underlying investment returns that surely should matter now.

Dod

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462991

Postby Alaric » December 3rd, 2021, 9:38 pm

Dod101 wrote:[Surprised that you got tax relief up until 2015.



LAPR for new policies was abolished in 1983 and completely abolished in 2015. By that time, it would only have been the policies written as whole of life that would have remained, given the usual endowment term of 25 years.

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Re: Assess a life fund?

#462998

Postby Dod101 » December 3rd, 2021, 10:56 pm

Alaric wrote:
Dod101 wrote:[Surprised that you got tax relief up until 2015.



LAPR for new policies was abolished in 1983 and completely abolished in 2015. By that time, it would only have been the policies written as whole of life that would have remained, given the usual endowment term of 25 years.


I see. It did not affect me as I never had a whole of life policy. Could never see the point of that. Thanks.

(However we did pretty well selling 10 year endowments a long time ago)

Dod


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