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Simple e-bike

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servodude
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Re: Simple e-bike

#508810

Postby servodude » June 22nd, 2022, 12:12 pm

88V8 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:I seem to recall reading - and I’ve just been back on the indiegogo site to check & see that memory serves - that the bike has a “Gates Carbon Drive”. That should last, no?

Yes, it does.
Like an overgrown cogged fan belt.

I hope it will last, and probably cheap to replace when it wears.

V8


They do have a very good reputation for commuter bike drive trains. What always strikes me about them is how little backlash they have.
I tried a fixie fitted with one once and it made for a very tense experience; any twitch made it to the wheels.

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Re: Simple e-bike

#508863

Postby GrahamPlatt » June 22nd, 2022, 3:45 pm

88V8 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:I seem to recall reading - and I’ve just been back on the indiegogo site to check & see that memory serves - that the bike has a “Gates Carbon Drive”. That should last, no?

Yes, it does.
Like an overgrown cogged fan belt.

I hope it will last, and probably cheap to replace when it wears.

V8


Oh I think it will. Far better than a chain. No rust, no slackening, no oiling do do and no oil on your clothes. Harley Davidson have been using belt drives for years on their motorbikes, and now BMW are too (on some models). So I think it should take pedal-power without stretching!
DOI - it’s what I’ve got on my Beaufort.

9873210
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Re: Simple e-bike

#508885

Postby 9873210 » June 22nd, 2022, 5:19 pm

GrahamPlatt wrote:
88V8 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:I seem to recall reading - and I’ve just been back on the indiegogo site to check & see that memory serves - that the bike has a “Gates Carbon Drive”. That should last, no?

Yes, it does.
Like an overgrown cogged fan belt.

I hope it will last, and probably cheap to replace when it wears.

V8


Oh I think it will. Far better than a chain. No rust, no slackening, no oiling do do and no oil on your clothes. Harley Davidson have been using belt drives for years on their motorbikes, and now BMW are too (on some models). So I think it should take pedal-power without stretching!
DOI - it’s what I’ve got on my Beaufort.

A single speed chain drive can tolerate a lot of abuse. I used one on a beater commuter for several winters with only a regular spray of WD40. By many standards it was in awful condition, but it was fully functional.

I am open to the idea that a properly designed belt would work better, but "far better" is a high hurdle. Even with no oil the belt will be filthy, just like every other part of the bike.

Also the belt for a Harley is 28mm wide. Are Gates using the same belt? (I've used chain drives with 15kW motors, should last forever on a bike, only it's not the same chain.)

servodude
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Re: Simple e-bike

#508928

Postby servodude » June 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm

9873210 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:
88V8 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:I seem to recall reading - and I’ve just been back on the indiegogo site to check & see that memory serves - that the bike has a “Gates Carbon Drive”. That should last, no?

Yes, it does.
Like an overgrown cogged fan belt.

I hope it will last, and probably cheap to replace when it wears.

V8


Oh I think it will. Far better than a chain. No rust, no slackening, no oiling do do and no oil on your clothes. Harley Davidson have been using belt drives for years on their motorbikes, and now BMW are too (on some models). So I think it should take pedal-power without stretching!
DOI - it’s what I’ve got on my Beaufort.

A single speed chain drive can tolerate a lot of abuse. I used one on a beater commuter for several winters with only a regular spray of WD40. By many standards it was in awful condition, but it was fully functional.

I am open to the idea that a properly designed belt would work better, but "far better" is a high hurdle. Even with no oil the belt will be filthy, just like every other part of the bike.

Also the belt for a Harley is 28mm wide. Are Gates using the same belt? (I've used chain drives with 15kW motors, should last forever on a bike, only it's not the same chain.)


The one's I've seen look to be half that width but otherwise the same (material & pitch)

I can't really see anything other than the belt that would wear out in normal use which removes a lot of the on going servicing on a commuter.
(as a bonus the stainless steel cogs you can get look awesome)

The only thing you'd need to know is how to break the stay to fit the belt (then slide the axle in the dropout)

I'd probably have got a bike with one for my commute if I thought there was a feasible hub with the gear range I needed
- as it is I've been periodically considering a Lekker Amsterdam+

-sd

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Re: Simple e-bike

#508973

Postby redsturgeon » June 23rd, 2022, 9:49 am

servodude wrote:
9873210 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:
88V8 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:I seem to recall reading - and I’ve just been back on the indiegogo site to check & see that memory serves - that the bike has a “Gates Carbon Drive”. That should last, no?

Yes, it does.
Like an overgrown cogged fan belt.

I hope it will last, and probably cheap to replace when it wears.

V8


Oh I think it will. Far better than a chain. No rust, no slackening, no oiling do do and no oil on your clothes. Harley Davidson have been using belt drives for years on their motorbikes, and now BMW are too (on some models). So I think it should take pedal-power without stretching!
DOI - it’s what I’ve got on my Beaufort.

A single speed chain drive can tolerate a lot of abuse. I used one on a beater commuter for several winters with only a regular spray of WD40. By many standards it was in awful condition, but it was fully functional.

I am open to the idea that a properly designed belt would work better, but "far better" is a high hurdle. Even with no oil the belt will be filthy, just like every other part of the bike.

Also the belt for a Harley is 28mm wide. Are Gates using the same belt? (I've used chain drives with 15kW motors, should last forever on a bike, only it's not the same chain.)


The one's I've seen look to be half that width but otherwise the same (material & pitch)

I can't really see anything other than the belt that would wear out in normal use which removes a lot of the on going servicing on a commuter.
(as a bonus the stainless steel cogs you can get look awesome)

The only thing you'd need to know is how to break the stay to fit the belt (then slide the axle in the dropout)

I'd probably have got a bike with one for my commute if I thought there was a feasible hub with the gear range I needed
- as it is I've been periodically considering a Lekker Amsterdam+

-sd


The combination of gates belt drive with a pinion gearbox would fit the bill. Not cheap though

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinions-a ... -2016.html

The Gates belt is good for 20-30,000 km. As you say the only real issue is that you need a bespoke frame with the ability to split the rear triangle.

John

servodude
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Re: Simple e-bike

#508987

Postby servodude » June 23rd, 2022, 10:30 am

redsturgeon wrote:
servodude wrote:
9873210 wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:
88V8 wrote:Yes, it does.
Like an overgrown cogged fan belt.

I hope it will last, and probably cheap to replace when it wears.

V8


Oh I think it will. Far better than a chain. No rust, no slackening, no oiling do do and no oil on your clothes. Harley Davidson have been using belt drives for years on their motorbikes, and now BMW are too (on some models). So I think it should take pedal-power without stretching!
DOI - it’s what I’ve got on my Beaufort.

A single speed chain drive can tolerate a lot of abuse. I used one on a beater commuter for several winters with only a regular spray of WD40. By many standards it was in awful condition, but it was fully functional.

I am open to the idea that a properly designed belt would work better, but "far better" is a high hurdle. Even with no oil the belt will be filthy, just like every other part of the bike.

Also the belt for a Harley is 28mm wide. Are Gates using the same belt? (I've used chain drives with 15kW motors, should last forever on a bike, only it's not the same chain.)


The one's I've seen look to be half that width but otherwise the same (material & pitch)

I can't really see anything other than the belt that would wear out in normal use which removes a lot of the on going servicing on a commuter.
(as a bonus the stainless steel cogs you can get look awesome)

The only thing you'd need to know is how to break the stay to fit the belt (then slide the axle in the dropout)

I'd probably have got a bike with one for my commute if I thought there was a feasible hub with the gear range I needed
- as it is I've been periodically considering a Lekker Amsterdam+

-sd


The combination of gates belt drive with a pinion gearbox would fit the bill. Not cheap though

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinions-a ... -2016.html

The Gates belt is good for 20-30,000 km. As you say the only real issue is that you need a bespoke frame with the ability to split the rear triangle.

John


Ooh they're very pretty and look a lot lighter than the nexus series or the wide range Rohloffs.

redsturgeon
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Re: Simple e-bike

#508992

Postby redsturgeon » June 23rd, 2022, 10:46 am

servodude wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
The combination of gates belt drive with a pinion gearbox would fit the bill. Not cheap though

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinions-a ... -2016.html

The Gates belt is good for 20-30,000 km. As you say the only real issue is that you need a bespoke frame with the ability to split the rear triangle.

John


Ooh they're very pretty and look a lot lighter than the nexus series or the wide range Rohloffs.



Here is a bike with just that set up.

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/the600

servodude
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Re: Simple e-bike

#508998

Postby servodude » June 23rd, 2022, 11:01 am

redsturgeon wrote:
servodude wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
The combination of gates belt drive with a pinion gearbox would fit the bill. Not cheap though

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinions-a ... -2016.html

The Gates belt is good for 20-30,000 km. As you say the only real issue is that you need a bespoke frame with the ability to split the rear triangle.

John


Ooh they're very pretty and look a lot lighter than the nexus series or the wide range Rohloffs.



Here is a bike with just that set up.

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/the600


Very smart set up.
I like how the break is done at the dropout

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Re: Simple e-bike

#510773

Postby Hardgrafter » June 29th, 2022, 9:25 pm

VanMoof have an excellent reputation from almost all points of view. Almost theft proof, Gates drive, hub gears (auto if required), deceptively simple design.
For cheaper bikes, Decathlon (quite a few stores in UK) has the B’Twin Tilt 500 folding e-bike.
And of course Halfords.

My local bike shop says ebikes are in short supply, so you may not have a good choice this year.

Beware that cheap ebikes can be heavy, and that the highest expense is going to be battery replacement (£400 to £500) in about 5 years. Do not overcharge, and do not over use turbo mode (heats up the battery). Cheaper bikes use cadence sensors (which rely on your pedalling to operate), and more expensive ones use torque sensing (which is smoother and better. You need gears to prevent over loading (torque) on hills.

88V8
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Re: Simple e-bike

#518739

Postby 88V8 » August 1st, 2022, 11:12 am

Hardgrafter wrote:Beware that cheap ebikes can be heavy, and that the highest expense is going to be battery replacement (£400 to £500) in about 5 years. Do not overcharge, and do not over use turbo mode (heats up the battery). Cheaper bikes use cadence sensors (which rely on your pedalling to operate),....

Yes, that's how OH's Nothng works, that kicked off this topic. One has to pedal. Quite difficult, uphill.

I see Hall-effect throttles for sale, but not sure how to wire them in, so I'll leave it and see how it goes.

Yesterday with a rear carrier now in place, OH used it for the first time to go shopping. Just five miles or so.
She found it hard to manouevre with its big wheels... inertia effect... and said that when moving fast she was pedalling like Bugs Bunny - that's not exactly what she said. Well it does have no gears.

But she was not hot and bothered when she returned, as she usually was after pedalling up the hill.

As I said previously, e-bikes seem like the wild west. In five years I doubt the maker will be in business and I'll be amazed if we can buy another battery.
But it was a trial, a toe in the water. So far so good.

V8


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