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Chain life

On road, off road, Mamils, Club rides or just share your routes and tips
Redmires
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Chain life

#398426

Postby Redmires » March 23rd, 2021, 8:46 pm

How long is a piece of string I suspect is the answer but ....

I've just replaced the chain on my Boardman hybrid after approx 1000 miles. Had the bike from new and it's only seen road use (and on a roller over the winter months). The gear change had become crunchy and after adjustment made no difference. I checked the chain and found I could nearly lift it off the chain ring, it was that stretched. The old chain was a KMC Z9 Super Narrow. I replaced it with a KMC X9 and the difference is immense. It's running lovely and smooth now. So, how long should a chain normally last in normal use (no off road, no wet weather and chain is regularly lubed) ?

didds
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Re: Chain life

#398438

Postby didds » March 23rd, 2021, 9:04 pm

I woundn't have thought 1000 miles was a very long time. that's eg only 10 century saturdays in summer... or less than 6 months over autumn/winter with reduced distance rides - and those dont include mid week blats?

didds

James
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Re: Chain life

#398485

Postby James » March 23rd, 2021, 10:39 pm

I've still got the original chain on my Boardman Comp, bought in c.2010. That has done several thousand miles of road riding and commuting.
That's not to say that it doesn't need replacing, just that it has not got bad enough to 'need' replacing.

servodude
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Re: Chain life

#398497

Postby servodude » March 23rd, 2021, 11:06 pm

I change my chain and sprockets once a year on my commuter coming in to spring; so that's probably 3000 miles
I find by that distance there's no point just changing the chain as they've worn together
- but that's on a 7spd cluster so it's a lot more tolerant of wear than a 9 spd

Cranks will last perhaps 3 or 4 times as long - and you'll know straight away if they haven't when you change the other bits!

The piece of string aspect to it is riding style
- spinning puts less wear on the components than staring from standstill in top gear

- sd

daveh
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Re: Chain life

#398591

Postby daveh » March 24th, 2021, 10:36 am

Interesting, I've done 3500miles on my Cube Reaction EXC. Suddenly in the last couple of weeks the chain is very slack on the two largest gears (smallest cogs) such that they are unusable as the chain drops off the front ring. I'm about to phone Alpine bikes about fixing it. It's a 12 speed so there is very little tolerance in the chain. Do you think it could be chain stretch? Hope I don't have to replace the chain and the rear chain rings as that is likely to be very expensive and its only about 6-8 months of commuting.

88V8
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Re: Chain life

#398596

Postby 88V8 » March 24th, 2021, 10:55 am

??? Surely one just moves the wheel backwards to take up the slack?
Mind you, I never did serious mileage, but I have never replaced the chain on my 15-speed that I bought in 1999.

V8

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Re: Chain life

#398601

Postby servodude » March 24th, 2021, 11:11 am

daveh wrote:Interesting, I've done 3500miles on my Cube Reaction EXC. Suddenly in the last couple of weeks the chain is very slack on the two largest gears (smallest cogs) such that they are unusable as the chain drops off the front ring. I'm about to phone Alpine bikes about fixing it. It's a 12 speed so there is very little tolerance in the chain. Do you think it could be chain stretch? Hope I don't have to replace the chain and the rear chain rings as that is likely to be very expensive and its only about 6-8 months of commuting.


I wouldn't be surprised for there to be wear at that distance (depending on how you ride)
But I would be surprised for it it to suddenly manifest as falling off a cog (erratic shifting would normally come first)
- perhaps 12spds are really picky though?

You can measure it with a decent 12" rule (or indeed chain gauge if you have one)
- the pins should be half an inch apart, so line up nicely with the rule when new
- once that's out by an 1/8th of an inch over the rule it's stretched 1% and I'd be changing the chain
- for a 12spd you should probably change at half that amount to avoid having to do the cluster also


-sd

staffordian
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Re: Chain life

#398603

Postby staffordian » March 24th, 2021, 11:23 am

daveh wrote:Interesting, I've done 3500miles on my Cube Reaction EXC. Suddenly in the last couple of weeks the chain is very slack on the two largest gears (smallest cogs) such that they are unusable as the chain drops off the front ring. I'm about to phone Alpine bikes about fixing it. It's a 12 speed so there is very little tolerance in the chain. Do you think it could be chain stretch? Hope I don't have to replace the chain and the rear chain rings as that is likely to be very expensive and its only about 6-8 months of commuting.

As hinted at in earlier posts, if the chain wears excessively and is not replaced then it will damage the teeth on the sprockets. They can develop a hooked profile. Then a new chain won't work smoothly until the sprockets are replaced

servodude
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Re: Chain life

#398605

Postby servodude » March 24th, 2021, 11:24 am

88V8 wrote:??? Surely one just moves the wheel backwards to take up the slack?
Mind you, I never did serious mileage, but I have never replaced the chain on my 15-speed that I bought in 1999.

V8


Horizontal dropouts are quite rare these days
- other than on single speeds, fixed or hub geared things

15 speeds are also wonderfully tolerant
Sad to see Dawes finally cease making the Galaxy for this year
- don't know if they stayed as 15s till now, but that's how I remember them

-sd

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Re: Chain life

#398631

Postby Gerry557 » March 24th, 2021, 12:35 pm

1000 miles doesn't seem that far but like all things you can get cycle parts for speed, lightness or longevity but not all three.

I would use a chain checker and rotate chains occasionally or as others have pointed out you will need to change the whole drive chain at even greater expense.

Unless you are a racing snake, a more hardy chain might be relevant alongside the advice above.

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Re: Chain life

#398632

Postby EssDeeAitch » March 24th, 2021, 12:40 pm

I speak only for road bike chains such as Shimano 105/Ultegra/Dura ace. With regular cleaning they should last 2,000 miles or more. The chain and cassette should be cleaned thoroughly on a weekly basis or every ride in wet/dirty conditions.

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Re: Chain life

#398647

Postby daveh » March 24th, 2021, 1:37 pm

EssDeeAitch wrote:I speak only for road bike chains such as Shimano 105/Ultegra/Dura ace. With regular cleaning they should last 2,000 miles or more. The chain and cassette should be cleaned thoroughly on a weekly basis or every ride in wet/dirty conditions.


That's not going to happen - I'm commuting 15 miles each way approx 4 days a week, plus its my main transport for short journeys at weekends. I don't have time to clean the bike even once a week (though I maybe should). My 1x12 speed has done ~3500miles since July and the prognosis from the bike shop is new rear group set and chain (though parts availability is a problem, I'm going to have to get a narrower group set*).

* I don't think this will be a problem, I'm using my Cube electric mountain bike for commuting (the sate of the roads you know :D ) so I've never needed the lower gears yet and could actually do with a larger top gear ,but that's not going to be possible. If the smaller range is a problem I can always get the wider groupset again as it looks from my mileage I may have to replace chain and groupset rather frequently.

Cornytiv34
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Re: Chain life

#398672

Postby Cornytiv34 » March 24th, 2021, 4:00 pm

I may be putting my head above the parapet but I cannot comprehend what is being said. As kids we only had old ones acquired or passed on through the family (“All Spare Parts” from anywhere, even had radial spokes on one front wheel). We were taught from a very young age to care for and rebuild them, absolutely. Stripped down to the last ball bearing, greased and repainted every summer holiday by us. Repainted bike frames hanging each side of the prop on mum’s washing line.

In all the young “cycling” years up to 16 (when I started work), I can rarely recall replacing a chain. We washed them out carefully with paraffin, dried them thoroughly then greased and put it back. We sometimes had to replace ball bearings and races but we had three speed derailleur gears at best and no double chainwheels. We checked our bikes at the least sound that was not normal.

We lived on our bikes as we did not have a car. Paper round in the early morning, to and fro to school including back home for lunch, out in the evenings after homework to scouts, youth clubs or just for the ride with brother or mates. Weekends after going for shopping for mum and cleaning out the rabbits or chickens, it was out with mates to play football or for a good ride often 40-50 mile trips to an interesting place. Summer holidays were lived outside and we went camping all over the place with our gear on our bikes. Rain to shine there was always something to do.

We had mechanical cyclometers on our bikes that clicked at every rotation so knew how far we had been year to year. We quite often did 10,000 Miles in a year!!!!!! Our bikes cost little, incurred some maintenance work and modest cost, lasted years and travelled long distances.

From what is said here modern bikes seem to cost the earth, have huge maintenance cost (if chains and chainwheels are being replaced as detailed here) and not do much mileage. With all the gears modern bikes have I find it funny that I see so many cyclists struggling up hills in too high a gear. Why have so many gears? Is it that chains now have to be so flexible to move such distances across the cogs and chainwheels that they wear out? Is this progress? With the number of cogs multiples by the number of chainwheels I am sure that there must be many gears that are almost the same combined ratios.

Our son says “You didn’t have 12 gears on the back it is all about chain line. It wears the gears or the chain. Chain is cheaper to replace. A track chain top of the range can be £150 now that lasts”

Mike

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Re: Chain life

#398675

Postby James » March 24th, 2021, 4:19 pm

When I were a lad all we 'ad were an 'orse...

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Chain life

#398685

Postby UncleEbenezer » March 24th, 2021, 4:57 pm

James wrote:When I were a lad all we 'ad were an 'orse...

Luxury! All we 'ad was a remnant of what the 'orses left on the roads as they raised a tail. If we were really lucky it might be fresh, but more usually it would be a dried mess, a whiff, and a cloud of flies.

Redmires
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Re: Chain life

#398715

Postby Redmires » March 24th, 2021, 7:34 pm

Thanks all. I'll keep my eye on the new chain and see how it goes. It was only £14 for the new one and I've no problem swapping it out. It was quite an afterthought to check the chain as I'm old school and like the comment above, thought that chains lasted for the life of the bike :o

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Re: Chain life

#398740

Postby moorfield » March 24th, 2021, 9:05 pm

Cornytiv34 wrote:I may be putting my head above the parapet but I cannot comprehend what is being said. As kids we only had old ones acquired or passed on through the family (“All Spare Parts” from anywhere, even had radial spokes on one front wheel). We were taught from a very young age to care for and rebuild them, absolutely. Stripped down to the last ball bearing, greased and repainted every summer holiday by us. Repainted bike frames hanging each side of the prop on mum’s washing line.

In all the young “cycling” years up to 16 (when I started work), I can rarely recall replacing a chain. We washed them out carefully with paraffin, dried them thoroughly then greased and put it back. We sometimes had to replace ball bearings and races but we had three speed derailleur gears at best and no double chainwheels. We checked our bikes at the least sound that was not normal.

We lived on our bikes as we did not have a car. Paper round in the early morning, to and fro to school including back home for lunch, out in the evenings after homework to scouts, youth clubs or just for the ride with brother or mates. Weekends after going for shopping for mum and cleaning out the rabbits or chickens, it was out with mates to play football or for a good ride often 40-50 mile trips to an interesting place. Summer holidays were lived outside and we went camping all over the place with our gear on our bikes. Rain to shine there was always something to do.

We had mechanical cyclometers on our bikes that clicked at every rotation so knew how far we had been year to year. We quite often did 10,000 Miles in a year!!!!!! Our bikes cost little, incurred some maintenance work and modest cost, lasted years and travelled long distances.

From what is said here modern bikes seem to cost the earth, have huge maintenance cost (if chains and chainwheels are being replaced as detailed here) and not do much mileage. With all the gears modern bikes have I find it funny that I see so many cyclists struggling up hills in too high a gear. Why have so many gears? Is it that chains now have to be so flexible to move such distances across the cogs and chainwheels that they wear out? Is this progress? With the number of cogs multiples by the number of chainwheels I am sure that there must be many gears that are almost the same combined ratios.

Our son says “You didn’t have 12 gears on the back it is all about chain line. It wears the gears or the chain. Chain is cheaper to replace. A track chain top of the range can be £150 now that lasts”

Mike



Fantastic post Mike!

servodude
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Re: Chain life

#398756

Postby servodude » March 24th, 2021, 9:39 pm

found this link that covers chain wear and associated guff
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/how-to-know-when-its-time-to-replace-your-bicycle-chain

Cornytiv34 wrote:With all the gears modern bikes have I find it funny that I see so many cyclists struggling up hills in too high a gear.


Don't see many round these parts
- they've all gone electric :o
- and all that instant acceleration to 26mph is wearing out stuff much faster than their legs would have

I think a lot of bikes are sold based on what people "think" they want
- and if you're only using it on the occasional weekend that's great
If it's going to be your main way of getting about (and you know that when you buy it) you probably should consider running costs and understand how to keep it running

...and they don't make them like they used to! (except for the bits that haven't changed ;) )

- sd

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Re: Chain life

#398757

Postby EssDeeAitch » March 24th, 2021, 9:45 pm

daveh wrote:
EssDeeAitch wrote:I speak only for road bike chains such as Shimano 105/Ultegra/Dura ace. With regular cleaning they should last 2,000 miles or more. The chain and cassette should be cleaned thoroughly on a weekly basis or every ride in wet/dirty conditions.


That's not going to happen - I'm commuting 15 miles each way approx 4 days a week, plus its my main transport for short journeys at weekends. I don't have time to clean the bike even once a week (though I maybe should). My 1x12 speed has done ~3500miles since July and the prognosis from the bike shop is new rear group set and chain (though parts availability is a problem, I'm going to have to get a narrower group set*).

* I don't think this will be a problem, I'm using my Cube electric mountain bike for commuting (the sate of the roads you know :D ) so I've never needed the lower gears yet and could actually do with a larger top gear ,but that's not going to be possible. If the smaller range is a problem I can always get the wider groupset again as it looks from my mileage I may have to replace chain and groupset rather frequently.


I ride between 5000 and 7000 miles a year and usually buy two, perhaps three chains so I do speak from experience. My rides are between 20 and 80 miles four times a week and cleaning the bike, whilst a chore is important not just from chain/cassette/brake block and wheel rim longevity but safety as well. When cleaning the bike, you spot all sorts of defects which if left could be very dangerous.

Redmires
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Re: Chain life

#398778

Postby Redmires » March 25th, 2021, 12:56 am

servodude wrote:found this link that covers chain wear and associated guff
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/how-to-know-when-its-time-to-replace-your-bicycle-chain


Thanks, that's very thorough. This image is similar to what my chain was like. I now realise I have to check it more often as the last bike I had was a Raleigh 5 speed (1980's vintage), when chains did last forever.

Image


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